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  #1  
Old 11-04-2017, 01:41 PM
deckroid deckroid is offline
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Wiring Woes Part 2... the hunt continues

Hey folks

I was having ignition fits and starter woes a little while ago. Got those figured out and fixed... replaced everything - ignition switch, ignition module, starter solenoid and starter. Wired it all back up and it works.

However, I was smelling a burning wire smell. Out came the voltmeter again. At rest, the battery is at 12.68. Idling, the battery is at 14.99... however, while idling, the dash lights and head lights are dim. RPMs go up, it fixes the brightness. However, why would the battery be so high if the lights are dimming?

Now, I do have Serehil's (RIP) headlight wiring harness. I don't know if that would have caused any issues.

Also, my belts are squealing like a banshee. I am suspect of the alternator, that's about the only electrical thing besides coil and dist I have not touched.

Can someone point me in a direction?
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  #2  
Old 11-04-2017, 03:08 PM
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babywag babywag is offline
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14.99 is very high, too high IMHO.

Just because the battery measures 14, doesn’t mean everything is getting that voltage.
It wiring is sound and in good shape, it will be close, but less due to losses.

Get alternator tested, tighten belts properly. Verify all connections are clean & tight.
If you’re having a specific issue like headlights, need measure voltage @ connector.
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  #3  
Old 11-04-2017, 04:05 PM
joe joe is offline
 
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Location: PNWet, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
14.99 is very high, too high IMHO.

Just because the battery measures 14, doesn’t mean everything is getting that voltage.
It wiring is sound and in good shape, it will be close, but less due to losses.

Get alternator tested, tighten belts properly. Verify all connections are clean & tight.
If you’re having a specific issue like headlights, need measure voltage @ connector.
x2 to all of the above.
Mr Babywag is way smarter than I am but agree that 14.99v is too high. I've always lived with: if the alt is putting out more than 14.6v the regulator is suspect(toast?). That's measured with a hand held external DMM, not the flakey in dash volt meter.
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  #4  
Old 11-06-2017, 12:14 PM
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Woodchomper Woodchomper is offline
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What year is your FSJ?
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  #5  
Old 11-07-2017, 02:26 PM
deckroid deckroid is offline
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It's an 84 GW. I am looking at different alternators trying to find one that isn't a rebuild.
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  #6  
Old 11-07-2017, 02:51 PM
tenoverthenose tenoverthenose is offline
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Check where the alternator voltage sensor wire is connect (it's the red wire on terminal #2 of the pigtail normally). If that is disconnected your alternator may run up higher than it should.
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  #7  
Old 11-08-2017, 07:36 AM
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Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81 Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81 is offline
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Ammeter anyone?
Sounds to me like your ammeter/ammeter wiring is melting down. Do a search on here about them before your rig burns to the ground.
14.9v at the battery isn't too high. Alternators are supposed to put out 14.6v. To me it sounds like the alternator is trying to compensate for a weak battery or a loose connection in the charging circuit (ammeter circuit).
The terminals on my ammeter always used to come loose and cause similar issues. Tightening them up would fix it for awhile. My ammeter eventually went into full meltdown so I completely bypassed the circuit and ran the charge wire directly to the battery.
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  #8  
Old 11-08-2017, 04:50 PM
deckroid deckroid is offline
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Ok... I have read about Ammeter wiring and bypassing... but where is it located? I have read about taking wires and connecting them together as a bypass and I have read about getting a replacement. But where is the ammeter?

On the tree next to the Ignition Switch? Or do you mean the actual gauge in the cluster? This is what I have found to be confusing. I have no problem installing a voltmeter instead of an Ammeter, and if this is the fix then great. But I thought the wire from Alternator when to a relay then to the cluster and it was at the relay that you need to do all the work

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=17510

http://forums.ifsja.org/showthread.php?t=160450

So Confused!

And a couple of posts have photos but since photobucket went to crap, I have not been able to get my brain wrapped about this.
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  #9  
Old 11-09-2017, 11:42 AM
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nograin nograin is offline
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Join Date: Dec 19, 2000
Location: Philadelphia, Pa., USA
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Whooaaaa!
Hold on. Shotgun is not needed yet.

As far as the confusion goes...
Take a look at these simplified flow diagrams. See if that helps unconfuse things.
http://www.heritech.org/cuda/Charge.html
Same link there is a diagram for my '85. You can copy that and use that to make one for your SJ with the headlight relays.
It's not plug and chug simple, but its not that hard. Sketching or modifiying the drawing may help you understand - that usually helps me.

Next. There are two things you posted that are possible problems, some things that are not, and a few things that aren't clear.

Smell electrical burning.
Definately a problem.The question is only where - and 'where' may be plural.

Battery Voltage
+
Engine Not running 12.68 V That's OK. A real test of the battery condition will include a load, or drawing it down. But for now, lets move on since nothing else is pointing to battery problem right now.

+ Engine idling, 14.9 V A little high depending on temperature. Not terrible.
CHECK: If the voltage climbs from that when the rpms go up, then regulation is no good.
CHECK: The voltage at the Alternator output. IF there is a difference, then the regulator is probably damaged or getting a very low voltage.
CHECK: Is the battery getting hot?
Explanation: The battery positive terminal shows the system voltage. If there are no losses, the terminal will have the same voltage as the alternator. If the battery is charged, no current will be flowing into the battery. Inside the battery, the cells voltage will "float up" but not retain 14.9 V after the engine is turned off.

Engine idling, lights dimming
. This happens when the rpm is too low for sufficient alternator output to meet the additional load.
However, you observe 14.9 Volts (at least at the battery) while the lights are on???? Yes? If so, power is being lost between the main splice and the lights.

Ammeter or Voltmeter ? Based on the year, yours should be an ammeter.
Ammeter shows current flow to or from the battery. Kindof like water flowing. The meter is marked 60 amps charging to 60 amps discharging.
When starting the motor or running lights with engine off, it should show discharge. When the engine is running, it should show charging and then gradually go to zero (the middle).

Headlight Relay Kit
It may not be the source of the problem, but it could be a contributor. When I bought mine, Rick said the main power could be from the battery or the alternator. Alternator is the correct location to draw power on any ammeter equipped vehicles. Look at the diagram (in my link above) and follow the flow of the current from the alternator to the headlights. If it goes through the ammeter, that's a problem.
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Last edited by nograin : 11-10-2017 at 08:59 AM.
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  #10  
Old 11-16-2017, 10:27 PM
deckroid deckroid is offline
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Join Date: Oct 05, 2016
Location: Idaho
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So... found the burning smell!

This was on the Ammeter.

So, I rewired the whole magillia. Ran new wires to a new ammeter under the dash... from the solenoid to the ammeter to the alternator. This is just temporary as I want to get a new instrument cluster, but it works for now!



Thanks everyone for all the help!
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  #11  
Old 11-17-2017, 10:03 AM
johnsonic johnsonic is offline
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Close call! Glad you got it in time.
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  #12  
Old 11-17-2017, 02:18 PM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Close call for sure! I would replace that Ammeter with a voltmeter soon or this may repeat itself. Keep in mind almost every bit of electrical power you use is going to flow through that Ammeter.
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  #13  
Old 11-17-2017, 11:43 PM
deckroid deckroid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rang-a-stang
Close call for sure! I would replace that Ammeter with a voltmeter soon or this may repeat itself. Keep in mind almost every bit of electrical power you use is going to flow through that Ammeter.


Funny thing happened today as I was showing my wife what I replaced and what almost happened... she actually said, "Well, how much for that nice dash you were looking at the other night? If you got that, would that stop you from burning alive in this death trap?"

It was the Dakota Digital Dashboard over at BJs... I told her about 600 and she actually said, "Well, Christmas is coming. Put it on your list."

Which floored me cuz she is the bean counter in our family and while she puts up with my addiction to my Jeep, she has never been one to embrace my spending money on "That [Expletive] Jeep". Color me happy.
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  #14  
Old 11-19-2017, 01:57 AM
Joe Guilbeau Joe Guilbeau is offline
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I'm here to "help you" with your problem...

Quote:
Originally Posted by deckroid
Ok... I have read about Ammeter wiring and bypassing... but where is it located? I have read about taking wires and connecting them together as a bypass and I have read about getting a replacement. But where is the ammeter?

On the tree next to the Ignition Switch? Or do you mean the actual gauge in the cluster? This is what I have found to be confusing. I have no problem installing a voltmeter instead of an Ammeter, and if this is the fix then great. But I thought the wire from Alternator when to a relay then to the cluster and it was at the relay that you need to do all the work

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=17510

http://forums.ifsja.org/showthread.php?t=160450

So Confused!

And a couple of posts have photos but since photobucket went to crap, I have not been able to get my brain wrapped about this.

You can use 6-awg premium flexible welding cable for your wiring.

http://oljeep.com/AltTheory17/Altern...ersion17R1.htm
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  #15  
Old 11-20-2017, 07:26 AM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
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Location: Oregon Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deckroid
Funny thing happened today as I was showing my wife what I replaced and what almost happened... she actually said, "Well, how much for that nice dash you were looking at the other night? If you got that, would that stop you from burning alive in this death trap?"

It was the Dakota Digital Dashboard over at BJs... I told her about 600 and she actually said, "Well, Christmas is coming. Put it on your list."

Which floored me cuz she is the bean counter in our family and while she puts up with my addiction to my Jeep, she has never been one to embrace my spending money on "That [Expletive] Jeep". Color me happy.

KEEPER!
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