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  #1  
Old 12-10-2016, 02:17 PM
M1687 M1687 is offline
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Fuel Pump

I rebuilt my engine several years ago on my 89 GW but I haven't returned the vehicle to road status. The vehicle only gets started every now and then. Initially I replaced the fuel pump during the engine rebuild. A year later it went out. Today the replacement just went out. Can anyone recommend what brand fuel pump to use or why I keep burning up fuel pumps? I'm only buying the Oreillys version. Not a big fan of retrofitting an electric one either unless these GW are problematic?
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Old 12-10-2016, 02:36 PM
redwoody redwoody is offline
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Ethanol gas is terrible on mechanical pumps. Elec. pump solves 2 problems: the gas issue and vapor locking issue.
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  #3  
Old 12-10-2016, 02:42 PM
M1687 M1687 is offline
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Fuel Pump

So what kind of electric fuel pump do you recommend? Mounting locations? Wiring?
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  #4  
Old 12-10-2016, 09:36 PM
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Don S Don S is offline
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..

Get a gyrator rotary electric like a Holly or Mallory... They're not cheap.
Pad the mounting bracket to cut back on noise.
Hide a on/off switch to stop vehicle theft.
Put a extremely very small smidgeon of oil on the commutator brushes contact surface to prevent wear.

Worked for me.. Don S..
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  #5  
Old 12-10-2016, 10:30 PM
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Locked and Loaded Locked and Loaded is offline
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Get a Carter mechanical fuel pump from Summit. About $30.00 shipped. They last. Screw the electrical fuel pump Voo Doo.
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"Nothin' ain't worth nothin'.
But it's free"
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1981 J10, 258, T176, NP208
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  #6  
Old 12-11-2016, 02:55 AM
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Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81 Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81 is offline
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Carter M4656 mechanical pump. They require some minor plumbing mods but flow more and are rebuildable.
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1979 Cherokee Golden Eagle - UNDER CONSTRUCTION
7" Alcan springs, BJ's HD shackles - 35x12.5x15 BFG Mud Terrains
AMC 401 - Pro-Flo 4 EFI
NV4500/NWF BB/NP205 - Triple Stick'd
F D44 - 4.10, Eaton E-Locker
R M23 - 4.10, Detroit Locker

1979 Cherokee Chief - Parts
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  #7  
Old 12-11-2016, 08:01 AM
rocklaurence rocklaurence is offline
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I had the same problem with my Shop Truck and was replacing the th e pump every couple years. I checked Summit for a performance unit but didn't see the Carter. So, I installed a Holley Red 18 months ago and have quicker starts and no vapor lock. However, I dont like the complexity of the electric pump on a Daily Driver.
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  #8  
Old 12-11-2016, 08:57 AM
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serehill serehill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don S
..

Get a gyrator rotary electric like a Holly or Mallory... They're not cheap.
Pad the mounting bracket to cut back on noise.
Hide a on/off switch to stop vehicle theft.
Put a extremely very small smidgeon of oil on the commutator brushes contact surface to prevent wear.

Worked for me.. Don S..
I'm right here with the Hollley. I tried the other brands Holley worked best.
The mechanical pumps are dinosaurs. Don't waste your time. Rebuild able is not the option sustainable is the answer. Electrical systems have proven better flow, pressure design & life expectancy to prevent vapor lock. All proven fact. I've had my first Holley now 7 years without incident.
Down side noisey.
UP side
Faster starter
Lots shorter starter runs making the starter solenoid battery & electrical System much more dependable.
I don't have to wonder if the pump is operating.
Pump system is self is all metal not seal or pump or diaphragm corrosion built to last.

a well installed system rocks & will let you move on to real problems. There's a reason why no manufacturer uses mechanical pumps any more experience why.


The electrical system is not cheap. This controller beats all of them hands down for the best unit. I am not a fan of the oil pressure & bypass switch mess.
http://www.revolutionelectronics.com/Fuel_Pump.html
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80 Cherokee
360 ci 727 with
Comp cams 270 h
NP208
Edlebrock performer intake
Holley 4180
Msd total multi spark.
4" rusty's springs
Member, FSJ Prissy Restoration Association

If you can't make it better why waste your time. No use repeating the orignal mistakes. I'm to old to push it that's why.

Last edited by serehill : 12-11-2016 at 09:21 AM.
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  #9  
Old 12-11-2016, 11:12 AM
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Locked and Loaded Locked and Loaded is offline
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[quote=serehill]
. There's a reason why no manufacturer uses mechanical pumps any more experience why.


]QUOTE]
Because they use about 7 horsepower?
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Drink more water.


"Nothin' ain't worth nothin'.
But it's free"
Kris Kristofferson 1970

1981 J10, 258, T176, NP208
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  #10  
Old 12-11-2016, 12:00 PM
Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81's Avatar
Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81 Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locked and Loaded
Quote:
Originally Posted by serehill
There's a reason why no manufacturer uses mechanical pumps any more experience why.
Because they use about 7 horsepower?
Because fuel injection is the real reason.
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1979 Cherokee Golden Eagle - UNDER CONSTRUCTION
7" Alcan springs, BJ's HD shackles - 35x12.5x15 BFG Mud Terrains
AMC 401 - Pro-Flo 4 EFI
NV4500/NWF BB/NP205 - Triple Stick'd
F D44 - 4.10, Eaton E-Locker
R M23 - 4.10, Detroit Locker

1979 Cherokee Chief - Parts
1979 Cherokee Chief - Parts
1979 Wagoneer - Sold
1981 Cherokee Chief - Cubed
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  #11  
Old 12-11-2016, 05:54 PM
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serehill serehill is offline
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Location: Mesquite Texas
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UH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81
Because fuel injection is the real reason.

Not true the first fuel injection systems had mechanical pumps.
Electric fuel pump work better no matter what pump you use. Manufacturers did not have to change to electric they knew it was simply the best fuel delivery after the technology reduced cost to a feasible level.
Electric fuel pumps remove some of the weaknesses inherent to the mechanical.
Simple facts. When your rig sits for 2 months & the fuel evaporates 7 you have to grind down the battery trying to pump fuel mechanically can be resolved by turning on the key makes on. Difference whether it's fuel injection or carbonated. Makes no difference you don't have to grind the entire motor over just to deliver fuel. No killing the battery trying to get fuel into the carburetor
Turn the key on count to 7 pump once & Vroom.
The fuel system is pressurized from the tank to the carburetor, No vapor lock.
I don't have to worry whether it's working I can hear it.
Faster starts faster starts faster starts.
__________________

80 Cherokee
360 ci 727 with
Comp cams 270 h
NP208
Edlebrock performer intake
Holley 4180
Msd total multi spark.
4" rusty's springs
Member, FSJ Prissy Restoration Association

If you can't make it better why waste your time. No use repeating the orignal mistakes. I'm to old to push it that's why.

Last edited by serehill : 12-13-2016 at 10:36 AM.
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  #12  
Old 12-11-2016, 06:18 PM
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Mikel Mikel is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81
Because fuel injection is the real reason.

There is no reason a mechanical pump could not generate the needed pressure for EFI. The advantage is that an electric pump can pressurizes the fuel system before the engine starts cranking.
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  #13  
Old 12-12-2016, 03:42 AM
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Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81 Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81 is offline
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I've never seen a cam driven mechanical pump that can push the 60psi of fuel needed for real electronic fuel injection. Not even the 15psi needed for throttle body injection. GM and Ford have always used electric pumps with their TBI and EFI systems. I'm not arguing that electric pumps aren't better but they're surely not needed is all I'm saying. I've had more issues with electric pumps on modern vehicles than I have ever had with the mechanical pumps on my old junk.
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-Jonny B.
1979 Cherokee Golden Eagle - UNDER CONSTRUCTION
7" Alcan springs, BJ's HD shackles - 35x12.5x15 BFG Mud Terrains
AMC 401 - Pro-Flo 4 EFI
NV4500/NWF BB/NP205 - Triple Stick'd
F D44 - 4.10, Eaton E-Locker
R M23 - 4.10, Detroit Locker

1979 Cherokee Chief - Parts
1979 Cherokee Chief - Parts
1979 Wagoneer - Sold
1981 Cherokee Chief - Cubed
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  #14  
Old 12-12-2016, 06:50 AM
JeepJeepster JeepJeepster is offline
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Location: Kentucky
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So how do direct injection gas engines and diesel engines get fuel pressure......
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  #15  
Old 12-12-2016, 01:33 PM
Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81's Avatar
Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81 Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepJeepster
So how do direct injection gas engines and diesel engines get fuel pressure......
I think we're getting off topic here....
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-Jonny B.
1979 Cherokee Golden Eagle - UNDER CONSTRUCTION
7" Alcan springs, BJ's HD shackles - 35x12.5x15 BFG Mud Terrains
AMC 401 - Pro-Flo 4 EFI
NV4500/NWF BB/NP205 - Triple Stick'd
F D44 - 4.10, Eaton E-Locker
R M23 - 4.10, Detroit Locker

1979 Cherokee Chief - Parts
1979 Cherokee Chief - Parts
1979 Wagoneer - Sold
1981 Cherokee Chief - Cubed
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  #16  
Old 12-12-2016, 04:08 PM
Joe Guilbeau Joe Guilbeau is offline
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Holley 12-801's

I tried a Holley 12-801 back in 1994, and it lasted 12-years, that puts me to 2006, and for the past 6 years I have had to put three in.

Gas is clean with filters before the intake, so I have some pictures of what happens inside, not very pretty.

I have decided to go with a Carter Rotary Vane unit from Summit Racing.

Model P4601HP (Active Link) from Summit Racing seems like it might be a reliable booster for the Holley Pro-Jection Analog system I have been running for the past 22 years.
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  #17  
Old 12-13-2016, 11:08 AM
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serehill serehill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81
I've never seen a cam driven mechanical pump that can push the 60psi of fuel needed for real electronic fuel injection. Not even the 15psi needed for throttle body injection. GM and Ford have always used electric pumps with their TBI and EFI systems. I'm not arguing that electric pumps aren't better but they're surely not needed is all I'm saying. I've had more issues with electric pumps on modern vehicles than I have ever had with the mechanical pumps on my old junk.
WOW Really?
Point taken & I stand corrected to a point. Lots of mechanical fuel pumps for fuel injection. You have to run a mechanical cable drive in Nascar.
You want to see some of the pumps??? Google Waterman Fuel pump. They are indeed not cam drive but are mechanical which is what the specific target being discussed.
I stand correct on my first fuel injected motor thought. It was awesome but port fuel EFI Volkswagen Square Back. that was my first FI engine. That little rig was Hot.

I was dealing with mechanical type FI before that with but never owned one. They were incredible racing units.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...uel-injection/

http://hilborninjection.com/

The history is out there.

Certainly we have digressed but the Electric system is the cats meow.

You can pour gas down the carburetor to make it run. that's a non complicated fuel system if you want to split hairs.
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80 Cherokee
360 ci 727 with
Comp cams 270 h
NP208
Edlebrock performer intake
Holley 4180
Msd total multi spark.
4" rusty's springs
Member, FSJ Prissy Restoration Association

If you can't make it better why waste your time. No use repeating the orignal mistakes. I'm to old to push it that's why.

Last edited by serehill : 12-13-2016 at 09:02 PM.
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  #18  
Old 12-13-2016, 04:01 PM
M1687 M1687 is offline
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Fuel Pump

Thanks for all the replys. I'm trying to keep this vehicle simple and somewhat reliable. I know the term reliable points to getting rid of the carburetor and mechanical fuel pump but when you also have a 1972 Buick that has no starting/fuel pump issues, I still have some faith in the original design. I think the TBI conversion kits I've seen are over priced also.
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  #19  
Old 12-13-2016, 04:17 PM
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babywag babywag is offline
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Keep the pump in use it won't dry up and crap out.
Let it sit and even an electric pump will suffer.
Today's fuels aren't as kind on pumps.
Worst thing you can do to a vehicle is let 'em sit for long periods of time.
Need to drive 'em occasionally, even if just around block a few times.
Keeps the fluids flowing. If it must sit add fuel stabilizer to tank.
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Old 12-13-2016, 09:04 PM
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serehill serehill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M1687
Thanks for all the replys. I'm trying to keep this vehicle simple and somewhat reliable. I know the term reliable points to getting rid of the carburetor and mechanical fuel pump but when you also have a 1972 Buick that has no starting/fuel pump issues, I still have some faith in the original design. I think the TBI conversion kits I've seen are over priced also.
Sounds like you're done. More time will prove the facts. Good luck.
__________________

80 Cherokee
360 ci 727 with
Comp cams 270 h
NP208
Edlebrock performer intake
Holley 4180
Msd total multi spark.
4" rusty's springs
Member, FSJ Prissy Restoration Association

If you can't make it better why waste your time. No use repeating the orignal mistakes. I'm to old to push it that's why.
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