International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tire Kickin' > General FSJ Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-07-2013, 01:16 PM
ShawnQ ShawnQ is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 15, 2013
Posts: 72
Overcharging Issue - too many volts!

Hey guys,

Finally got my exhaust done, and got the Wag where it could be driven.

Now, at any point over idle, the voltage gauge starts to climb. At cruising speeds, it will go into the red and max out on the guage.

I have verified the gauge is fairly accurate with a volt-meter on the battery when this is happening.

I have taken a video of two things
1) The voltage gauge
2) underhood sound

You can hear the sound the alternator is making in both videos, but it is more pronounced in the under-hood video, obviously.

In regards to wiring, I checked the 2-prong connector that attaches to the alternator. The spades had a little di-electric on them, old, so I cleaned them as good as I could and re-installed it. No change.
I traced the red wire on the connector to the + side of the starter solenoid, through a green fusible link. It appears to have the same voltage at the solenoid as it has going to the alternator, so it isn't dropping anything anywhere, and looks to be in decent shape. The small brown or black wire from the 2-prong goes through the harness and back over to the driver's side, I believe into the dash.

Here's the interior video:
http://youtu.be/n7T95LKCA5Q

Here's the underhood video:
http://youtu.be/NextNeWOtx4

Last edited by ShawnQ : 03-07-2013 at 01:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-07-2013, 01:22 PM
joe joe is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 28, 2000
Location: PNWet, USA
Posts: 22,392
My first guess would be the regulator is toast.
__________________
joe
"Don't mind me. I'm just here for the alibi"
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-07-2013, 01:22 PM
babywag's Avatar
babywag babywag is offline
out of order
 
Join Date: Jun 08, 2005
Location: Land of froot loops and cukcoo-nuts, CA
Posts: 10,142
Rebuild or replace your alternator, you're going to cook your battery.

Happened to me on a road trip, seems batteries don't like 17+ volts LOL.

People where flashing their brights @ me all night long, low beams work pretty good w/ high voltage.

When I finally made it to my destination the alt got replaced, and the battery too.
__________________
Tony
88 GW, 67 J3000, 07 Magnum SRT8
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-07-2013, 01:23 PM
ShawnQ ShawnQ is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 15, 2013
Posts: 72
Joe,

Is there a simple way to diagnose that or is it something I would need to take to a parts house so they can load test it?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-07-2013, 01:23 PM
KJ Ryu's Avatar
KJ Ryu KJ Ryu is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Sep 06, 2008
Location: Casper, WY
Posts: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
My first guess would be the regulator is toast.

X2
__________________
Ron

2005 KJ, Hit-n-Run, 2am 6-17-2012, Totaled.
1977 J10, 2v304, T18, D20, 37x14s, SOA & SF on tons, still ugly Occasional driving!
1978 SJ Wagoneer, 360, QT, 33x12.5s, lift by Sawzall NOT Running
1977 J10 4v401, TH400, BW1339, mostly stock DD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars
One man's trans leak is another's penetrating oil
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-07-2013, 01:26 PM
ShawnQ ShawnQ is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 15, 2013
Posts: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
Rebuild or replace your alternator, you're going to cook your battery.

That's why I'm not driving it...can't be good on the ol' battery!
Is it a general consensus to replace with a stock alternator or do most people upgrade? I am new, so excuse my ignorance...but I faintly remember reading about a CS-144? Is that an upgraded alt? Or am I confusing it with another ugprade?

Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
Happened to me on a road trip, seems batteries don't like 17+ volts LOL.

People where flashing their brights @ me all night long, low beams work pretty good w/ high voltage.

When I finally made it to my destination the alt got replaced, and the battery too.

Hah! That's one way to get good lights out of these things!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-07-2013, 01:45 PM
joe joe is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 28, 2000
Location: PNWet, USA
Posts: 22,392
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnQ
Joe,

Is there a simple way to diagnose that or is it something I would need to take to a parts house so they can load test it?
To me you've already diagnosed it with a DMM. if you're reading as much voltage with the DMM/VOM as the gauge indicates that's pretty much the test showing that the regulator is shot. If the regulator is working correctly under no circumstances will it allow more the 14.6v from the alt. Helps to mention what year rig your working on? Later alts have internal regulators, early alts have external regulators. If yours is internal you need a new alt. Even if its external I'd replace the alt along with the regulator anyway. The alt and reg like to be matched sets. Usually if one goes south it'll damage the other so by just replacing one you can get into a vicious parts replacing loop. If it's the later internal regulator it's a no brainer just replace the alt, the reg will also be new.
Do it soon before you destroy the battery and the CVR in the temp gauge. If your gauges are or get all wonky/bouncy you prolly already destroyed the CVR for the gauges and you'll need a new temp gauge. In any case do the alt and reg repair first.
__________________
joe
"Don't mind me. I'm just here for the alibi"
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-07-2013, 01:49 PM
ShawnQ ShawnQ is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 15, 2013
Posts: 72
Joe,

Thanks for the info. I'll look for an alternator.

It is an '88 GW, so it has all of the electric goodies and will likely need the higher output version.

In regards to the gauges, everything works fine except for an intermittent issue with the fuel gauge. It reads sometimes, and some times it doesn't. I haven't popped the panel under the rear carpet yet, but I assume I'll find a bad connection somewhere. The only other electrical issues I have that I have yet to diagnose are a lack of dome lights/courtesy lights (under dash and instrument lights work), and neither one of my blower motors work. I know the door lights/dome lights are a common issue but I haven't had a chance to look into it yet. One thing at a time!

Now I need to try to figure out if I go with a stock unit or do an upgrade.

Thanks,
Shawn
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-07-2013, 04:12 PM
serehill's Avatar
serehill serehill is offline
Gone,Never Forgotten.
 
Join Date: Nov 22, 2009
Location: Mesquite Texas
Posts: 8,619
wait a minute

Have you looked closely to make sure all wiring is connected & has correct voltage. You should check voltage on the 2 wire plug going to the alternator. One would be on all the time 12+volts the other one should have voltage with the key on. Check those 2 places before you replace the Alternator. If you don't have voltage on the constant voltage pin it can cause this condition. If it doesn't have these voltage you need to fix that before you replace anything. Also make sure you clean the plug on both sides (alternator & plug is attached to the wire) & make sure it has good connections before you blow a bunch of money & find out it was something else. Those plugs are famous for corroding. You can also take the alternator off & take it to an alternator shop & have them replace the regulator cheaper than you can get another alternator. The alternator is working so it could easily be repaired.
I'm assuming this is a 3 wire.


That is a cs 144 upgraded unit on your rig. IMHO they rock
__________________

80 Cherokee
360 ci 727 with
Comp cams 270 h
NP208
Edlebrock performer intake
Holley 4180
Msd total multi spark.
4" rusty's springs
Member, FSJ Prissy Restoration Association

If you can't make it better why waste your time. No use repeating the orignal mistakes. I'm to old to push it that's why.

Last edited by serehill : 03-07-2013 at 05:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-08-2013, 06:55 PM
ShawnQ ShawnQ is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 15, 2013
Posts: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by serehill
Have you looked closely to make sure all wiring is connected & has correct voltage. You should check voltage on the 2 wire plug going to the alternator. One would be on all the time 12+volts the other one should have voltage with the key on. Check those 2 places before you replace the Alternator. If you don't have voltage on the constant voltage pin it can cause this condition. If it doesn't have these voltage you need to fix that before you replace anything. Also make sure you clean the plug on both sides (alternator & plug is attached to the wire) & make sure it has good connections before you blow a bunch of money & find out it was something else. Those plugs are famous for corroding. You can also take the alternator off & take it to an alternator shop & have them replace the regulator cheaper than you can get another alternator. The alternator is working so it could easily be repaired.
I'm assuming this is a 3 wire.


That is a cs 144 upgraded unit on your rig. IMHO they rock

You said mine is already a CS144 Unit? How can you t ell?

It has a factory style two wire plug (red & brown). However, the wiring is not factory. The brown wire comes off of the alternator and connects, via DUCT TAPE, to a yellow wire which goes to the dash bulkhead (key on ignition I believe).

I'm currently working on the wiring...so maybe I'll fix the alternator overcharging issue when the wiring is fixed. I shoild probably pull tbe alt and have it checked. Should be fairly easy.

Thanks
Shawn
__________________
1988 Grand Wagoneer, AMC 5.9, Edelbrock Performer Intake, Edelbrock Carb, 6" on 33x12.5
You can view my Build/Work In Progress thread by clicking HERE!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 03-08-2013, 09:25 PM
Eaglefreek's Avatar
Eaglefreek Eaglefreek is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 19, 2010
Location: Fayetteville, TN
Posts: 141
I had the same issue in one of my Eagles. Turned out there was a break in the wire that serehill is talking about.
__________________
86 AMC Eagle 258/4.0 head
87 AMC Eagle 5.3L, 4L60E, Explorer 8.8, Dana 44 on 35's
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-08-2013, 09:35 PM
ShawnQ ShawnQ is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 15, 2013
Posts: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglefreek
I had the same issue in one of my Eagles. Turned out there was a break in the wire that serehill is talking about.

This is the smaller brown wire that comes off of the alternator, I assume?

If so, I wouldnt be surprised if that's my issue. Look at how it's connected. (It was loomed up with the rest of the wires but once uncovered and un-loomed this is how it looks. I'm not sure yet how the factory had it, but this doesn't look good.



If I wasn't getting good continuity through this connection I could see how the alt may try to compensate.

Thanks for the input.
SQ
__________________
1988 Grand Wagoneer, AMC 5.9, Edelbrock Performer Intake, Edelbrock Carb, 6" on 33x12.5
You can view my Build/Work In Progress thread by clicking HERE!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-08-2013, 11:01 PM
Forrest the FSJ's Avatar
Forrest the FSJ Forrest the FSJ is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 14, 2013
Location: SC
Posts: 79
I just replaced a bad alternator on my '90. I got a bad rebuilt from Auto Zone that got replaced two days later with a new one from NAPA. With the Core Charge, the new one from NAPA was about $75, which is about what Auto Zone charged for the rebuilt that didn't work. O_O All the new ones that I found come with a single pulley, and mine was a double, so I had to swap that over, which takes an impact wrench.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-09-2013, 01:59 AM
babywag's Avatar
babywag babywag is offline
out of order
 
Join Date: Jun 08, 2005
Location: Land of froot loops and cukcoo-nuts, CA
Posts: 10,142
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShawnQ
This is the smaller brown wire that comes off of the alternator, I assume?

If so, I wouldnt be surprised if that's my issue. Look at how it's connected. (It was loomed up with the rest of the wires but once uncovered and un-loomed this is how it looks. I'm not sure yet how the factory had it, but this doesn't look good.



If I wasn't getting good continuity through this connection I could see how the alt may try to compensate.

Thanks for the input.
SQ

Believe it or not that's factory wiring. Shouldn't be the problem.
Pull your alternator and have it tested. Then since it's off/out replace it.
If the 2 wire plug had wiring issues you'd likely be looking @ a no charge issue.
__________________
Tony
88 GW, 67 J3000, 07 Magnum SRT8
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-09-2013, 03:37 AM
Cybrstar's Avatar
Cybrstar Cybrstar is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Mar 05, 2013
Location: SF GIANTS
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe
My first guess would be the regulator is toast.

Second that. If it reaches to high it will kill both battery and alternator. Buy a lifetime alternator from you local parts distributor (or even have them check your alternator and battery first). Then go from there.

Hopefully it not your wiring. My hood looks like it should belong in a Pasta Pomodora menu.
__________________
1983 Cherokee - "Last of the Mohicans"

258, carter nuttered........ so many new parts it might as well just come from the factory...... and more to come
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 03-09-2013, 05:36 AM
ShawnQ ShawnQ is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 15, 2013
Posts: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
Believe it or not that's factory wiring. Shouldn't be the problem.
Pull your alternator and have it tested. Then since it's off/out replace it.
If the 2 wire plug had wiring issues you'd likely be looking @ a no charge issue.

That's hard to believe this is factory...

How was it originally covered/sealed/loomed up? This one had duct tape so I assumed it wasn't original, or was it?

I have the same type of connection on a green w/white wire near the bulkhead, & on the infamous orange choke heater wiring.

That will be in another thread though...

Thanks
Shawn
__________________
1988 Grand Wagoneer, AMC 5.9, Edelbrock Performer Intake, Edelbrock Carb, 6" on 33x12.5
You can view my Build/Work In Progress thread by clicking HERE!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 03-09-2013, 10:58 AM
serehill's Avatar
serehill serehill is offline
Gone,Never Forgotten.
 
Join Date: Nov 22, 2009
Location: Mesquite Texas
Posts: 8,619
I could be wrong but the alternator looks too big to be a stock unit

Maybe it is stock.

There's another video where you have these showing the wiring is that yours???? Holy cow. I'll be the first to say I still think it's wiring but it does not rule out the alternator reg freakin. as far ai it won't overcharge with bad wiring that is totallui incorrect. That's why the test I pout in my fiorst thread put the wiring to bed chck both plugs on th ealternaore to see if they have substantial voltage. that brwon wire chan be giung off too much resistance it will make th ealternaoter thing the battery is low Fact.
__________________

80 Cherokee
360 ci 727 with
Comp cams 270 h
NP208
Edlebrock performer intake
Holley 4180
Msd total multi spark.
4" rusty's springs
Member, FSJ Prissy Restoration Association

If you can't make it better why waste your time. No use repeating the orignal mistakes. I'm to old to push it that's why.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 03-09-2013, 11:11 AM
ShawnQ ShawnQ is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 15, 2013
Posts: 72
So, with key on, I should have 12v at brown wire, and 12v at red?

I am pretty sure when I had it running I was showing 9v at brown and 15v+ at red. I won't be home until monday and I can double check then.

And, yes, the wiring is a mess. I have it all unloomed right now so I can clean it up. Those little brass/copper three way smashed connectors blow my mind. Someone told me they were factory, too. Unbelievable!

I'll probably end up pulling the alt off either way to clean up an oil leak. If I do I'll have it teated. Can autozone or any of the big stores check the internal regulator? I know it is capable of making plenty of voltage, thats for sure!

Thanks.
Shawn
__________________
1988 Grand Wagoneer, AMC 5.9, Edelbrock Performer Intake, Edelbrock Carb, 6" on 33x12.5
You can view my Build/Work In Progress thread by clicking HERE!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-09-2013, 11:43 AM
serehill's Avatar
serehill serehill is offline
Gone,Never Forgotten.
 
Join Date: Nov 22, 2009
Location: Mesquite Texas
Posts: 8,619
this should help it is a very simple diagram

http://hartin.com/alternator.htm


it's more important is how they are terminated & what they do.

(9v at the brown is wat too low & probably tour problem, It should at least be north of 13v if the battery is reading 15.
Do not assume the brown connection/wire is good. I would replace the brown wire if it was me. these are symptioms It still could be the alternator but the brown wire is way too low.
__________________

80 Cherokee
360 ci 727 with
Comp cams 270 h
NP208
Edlebrock performer intake
Holley 4180
Msd total multi spark.
4" rusty's springs
Member, FSJ Prissy Restoration Association

If you can't make it better why waste your time. No use repeating the orignal mistakes. I'm to old to push it that's why.

Last edited by serehill : 03-12-2013 at 09:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 03-09-2013, 11:55 AM
ShawnQ ShawnQ is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 15, 2013
Posts: 72
Serehill,

Thanks for the input. I'll have to double check the voltage when I get off of duty on monday.

I am going through all of the wires, changing any butt connectors for soldered joints with heat shrink. Trying to do this one time, and be done!


I'll keep you informed.

On another note- can you buy the factory style harness plugs like the ones found on the distributor wiring, a/c low pressure switch, etc? Or am I stuck trying to reuse the originals or replace them with something different?
__________________
1988 Grand Wagoneer, AMC 5.9, Edelbrock Performer Intake, Edelbrock Carb, 6" on 33x12.5
You can view my Build/Work In Progress thread by clicking HERE!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fall Issue of JPFreek Available and FSJ Photos Needed for Upcoming Issue Release JPFreek1 General FSJ Discussion 7 09-26-2009 08:30 PM
Fuel pump issue or carb issue??? Wagoneerlover General FSJ Tech 4 04-13-2007 01:56 PM
Timing Chain Issue? npbsurfr General FSJ Tech 17 04-04-2005 04:15 AM
OverCharging - 18 Volts ??? AMXHunter General FSJ Tech 12 01-19-2005 03:50 PM
Overcharging - Give me some reasons why... Kris General FSJ Tech 8 05-27-2003 12:03 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner