International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tire Kickin' > General FSJ Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #41  
Old 07-31-2012, 08:33 AM
kevincdoyle's Avatar
kevincdoyle kevincdoyle is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 27, 2011
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by wag4x6
Is the gauge floating constantly or sitting at a temp for , let's say a half hour, then moving. If its always floating I would be looking at a bad gauge or a bad ground on the gauge.

It rarely sits in one place for more than 5 minutes. Will sit below 220 while idling, then while driving will shoot up to above 240 then when I stop it will move into red zone (above 260). And then when I start driving it will come back down to around 230. It's not jerky movements just constant fluctuation.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 07-31-2012, 10:26 AM
letank's Avatar
letank letank is offline
AMC 4 OH! 1
 
Join Date: Jun 03, 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 4,073
Quote:
Originally Posted by wag4x6
Is the gauge floating constantly or sitting at a temp for , let's say a half hour, then moving. If its always floating I would be looking at a bad gauge or a bad ground on the gauge.

X2, if it is constantly floating, the ground of the instrument cluster.

Next is the voltage regulator build inside the temperature gauge for 70's to 85 year model, but I suspect that latter models with a different instrument cluster use the same set up for the voltage regulator called CVR (constant voltage regulator)

Remember that the post 86 year use a different calibration for the temp gauge and sender. The older FSJ uses HIGH resistance for low temp and LOW resistance for high temp.

The quick and dirty way is to put and aftermarket gauge.
__________________
Michel
74 wag, 349Kmiles on original ticker/trany, except for the rust. Will it make it to the next get together without a rebuilt? Status: needs a new body.
85 Gwag, 228 Kmiles. $250 FSJ test lab since 02, that refuses to give up but still leaks.

See Ouray 2013, Engine bits and Fuel and brake lines, and Body work
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 07-31-2012, 01:51 PM
will e's Avatar
will e will e is offline
Always Broke
 
Join Date: Nov 16, 2001
Location: Mesa AZ
Posts: 9,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by serehill
Why don't they have a spring in them now? My sons 2012 mustang doesn't.

I'm sure under some rediculous conditions it may have happened.

I can find an answer to anything the way I want it answered on the internet if I loock ong enough

I've seen tons of parts that were added that weren't needed. the first hotrodder noticed that right off. I've never seen it & I can't say it doesn't happen. It could. Hey that Google link is great Maybe it's just me that can't get it to work.

Two things that are fact not all internet information is fact. Theory or it is thought is not fact. Most of these sites talk about during cool down. I totaly agree. Most talk about this happening mostly in theory but can not say it does in fact. I googled it too. Again not much fact.
YUP if you read enough of them then you'll find they contradict each other. Almaost everyone of these replies are opinions. I didn't say they didn't ever collapse. When cooling I agee. If it were possible how would the vaum be created? If there were an obstruction that would make th emost sense for this to happen wouldn't the impeller just cavitate?? I agree that an impeeler could create 1 to 2 pounds of pressure but how does that circumvent 15 pounds of pressure?

I was clearly just sharing a personal experience. I even qualified it that I had not seen it on an AMC. There may be many reasons why they don't use them now... maybe I can find an answer on the internet.

Perhaps the hoses are better? Maybe they make sure the difference isn't large enough to collapse the hose?

There is no doubt it came stock with a spring (73 mustang with a Cleveland). The spring was there to keep the hose from collapsing. I saw it collapse when I revved the engine. The spring fixed my problem. Your results may vary.
__________________
82 Cherokee WT – SFwith Alcan/agr box/Borgeson shaft/ 401/performer/Holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS(2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave,Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37/Corbeau Moab Seats /Hella/tuffy console/sliders/custombumpers&roll bar/WARN 8000/steering brace/CO2 Tank/dual batts/custom TCskid plate






Last edited by will e : 07-31-2012 at 01:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 07-31-2012, 07:59 PM
serehill's Avatar
serehill serehill is offline
Gone,Never Forgotten.
 
Join Date: Nov 22, 2009
Location: Mesquite Texas
Posts: 8,619
Not doubting you will e

Quote:
Originally Posted by will e
I was clearly just sharing a personal experience. I even qualified it that I had not seen it on an AMC. There may be many reasons why they don't use them now... maybe I can find an answer on the internet.

Perhaps the hoses are better? Maybe they make sure the difference isn't large enough to collapse the hose?

There is no doubt it came stock with a spring (73 mustang with a Cleveland). The spring was there to keep the hose from collapsing. I saw it collapse when I revved the engine. The spring fixed my problem. Your results may vary.
Please read my post I never said it never happens I agreed under certain conditions it does. I do not believe it is the root cause in this instance. There is no doubt with certain conditions it can be found to happen on the internet.
__________________

80 Cherokee
360 ci 727 with
Comp cams 270 h
NP208
Edlebrock performer intake
Holley 4180
Msd total multi spark.
4" rusty's springs
Member, FSJ Prissy Restoration Association

If you can't make it better why waste your time. No use repeating the orignal mistakes. I'm to old to push it that's why.

Last edited by serehill : 07-31-2012 at 08:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 07-31-2012, 08:57 PM
Joe Guilbeau Joe Guilbeau is offline
Bleedin' Gasoline
 
Join Date: Apr 17, 2002
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 2,137
Buy an infrared Thermometer and monitor the entry fluid and the exiting fluid at the block/radiator.

Form your own opinion, a 23 year old gauge? Need I say more?

To cool further, distilled water and water wetter only with some prestone lubricant.

Add electric fans...

It was 107 degrees F here in San Antonio temp on my system got up to almost 190 degrees F at idle in traffic.
__________________
Joe Guilbeau<br />1983 Cherokee Laredo WT (SJ-17), 360/229/727/D44/D60 4.10 Gearing, 8-lug hubs, Edelbrock Performer w/EGR Intake, Mallory Unilite Series 47 Photo-Optic Infrared Trigger Vacuum Distributor, Mallory Surge Protector, Mallory Promaster Coil, Holley Pro-Jection TBI 502-Analog, FlowKooler High Output Water Pump, Staggered 4-Core Custom Industrial Radiator, HD Fan Clutch, Dual Electric Fans, CS130 Delco 105-Amp Alternator, Oil Bypass Mods at Rear of Block and Distributor Oiling, Superlift 4\" Suspension, Rancho RS5000\'s, Hi-Tech 31\" Re-Treads, Aero 33 Gal Tank w/Skid Plate, Custom Rear \"Longhorn\" Bumper
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 07-31-2012, 11:03 PM
will e's Avatar
will e will e is offline
Always Broke
 
Join Date: Nov 16, 2001
Location: Mesa AZ
Posts: 9,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by serehill
Please read my post I never said it never happens I agreed under certain conditions it does. I do not believe it is the root cause in this instance. There is no doubt with certain conditions it can be found to happen on the internet.

I did read it. Several times.

I am having trouble coming away from it as a simple agreement that under certain (rediculous) conditions it can happen.

I am not going to get into a internet argument where we tear apart each others sentences.

I saw it happen on a 73 ford mustang with a 351 cleveland with my own eyes. Folks can take that for what it is worth. Your advice that you can find agreement (answers) on the internet is well founded but, in my opinion, mis-directed at my post. I only stated that I had seen it before. Each person can take that for what it is worth. There are a few folks on this board who would accept my statement as reliable, others may not. It really makes little difference to me.

I stand by my statement that car companies did not add parts that were not needed. They put the spring in to solve an issue. They run on tight margins. They don't just add parts, they just don't.

I agree a collapsing hose might be a symptom rather than the actual issue. In my Mustang it was the issue, the spring had, for the most part, rusted out.
__________________
82 Cherokee WT – SFwith Alcan/agr box/Borgeson shaft/ 401/performer/Holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS(2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave,Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37/Corbeau Moab Seats /Hella/tuffy console/sliders/custombumpers&roll bar/WARN 8000/steering brace/CO2 Tank/dual batts/custom TCskid plate





Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 08-01-2012, 06:45 PM
bullet bullet is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 09, 2011
Location: Cumming, Ga.
Posts: 58
over heating

Peace of mind and added investment
Purchase a good temperature gauge and monitor while you drive and watch for consistency - irregular variations will tell you if there is a real problem
You can remove the new thermostat and the engine temp will run cooler. Inconsistent variations after this are air in the water system and you need to purge the system of air in the block by filling the system completely to the top with antifreeze several times. This is dangerous - a heated mist of steam and antifreeze may bubble out, this is good however the heated air is being released.
Air and foam do not cool they get hotter and cause inconsistent heating and cooling. Overheated air turns into steam inside the block and a new radiator cap with a high release point may trap the air in the cooling system The higher the number the more pressure it takes to be released This can be checked with thermostat in as well.
The Bullet
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 08-01-2012, 06:51 PM
bullet bullet is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 09, 2011
Location: Cumming, Ga.
Posts: 58
Heating Help

Peace of mind and added investment
Purchase a good temperature gauge and monitor while you drive and watch for consistency - irregular variations will tell you if there is a real problem
You can remove the new thermostat and the engine temp will run cooler. Inconsistent variations after this are air in the water system and you need to purge the system of air in the block by filling the system completely to the top with antifreeze several times. This is dangerous - a heated mist of steam and antifreeze may bubble out, this is good however the heated air is being released.
Air and foam do not cool they get hotter and cause inconsistent heating and cooling. Overheated air turns into steam inside the block and a new radiator cap with a high release point may trap the air in the cooling system The higher the number the more pressure it takes to be released This can be checked with thermostat in as well.
The Bullet
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 08-02-2012, 08:44 AM
kevincdoyle's Avatar
kevincdoyle kevincdoyle is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 27, 2011
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullet
Peace of mind and added investment
Purchase a good temperature gauge and monitor while you drive and watch for consistency - irregular variations will tell you if there is a real problem
You can remove the new thermostat and the engine temp will run cooler. Inconsistent variations after this are air in the water system and you need to purge the system of air in the block by filling the system completely to the top with antifreeze several times. This is dangerous - a heated mist of steam and antifreeze may bubble out, this is good however the heated air is being released.
Air and foam do not cool they get hotter and cause inconsistent heating and cooling. Overheated air turns into steam inside the block and a new radiator cap with a high release point may trap the air in the cooling system The higher the number the more pressure it takes to be released This can be checked with thermostat in as well.
The Bullet

This leads me to a question. How does one "purge" air from the system?
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 08-05-2012, 12:17 PM
bullet bullet is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 09, 2011
Location: Cumming, Ga.
Posts: 58
Easy Air Purge

Air in the cooling system gets in the system through replacing a component
such as the thermostat water pump, radiator, draining and replacing the coolant.
The problem is you dont have enough coolant.
Remove radiator cap
Fill with coolant when engine reaches thermostat temp thermometer will open and allow coolant in*
Coolant level in Radiator will drop
Add Coolant
Repeat process until you see water circulating in radiator. 2 - 3 x
You are replacing the air with coolant.
This process will reveal information to diagnose the problem.
Coolant system is operating properly with coolant circulating and there is no air in the system.
*No coolant circulating Thermostat is malfunctioning ie remaining closed cold coolant in radiator after idling temperature rise on temperature guage.
Coolant is hot no circulation water pump malfunctioning (rare)
Coolant disappearing with no spots or leaks - Improper head gasket seal
( hard to diagnose) cylinder pressure check oil in coolant - muddy dipstick
The bullet
Check clutch fan belt tension this will work and slip - Belt must fit in V - groove tight and conform to the groove. New belts don't fit properly they are to wide, I had to re-tighten 3 x to stop problem
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 08-05-2012, 05:14 PM
will e's Avatar
will e will e is offline
Always Broke
 
Join Date: Nov 16, 2001
Location: Mesa AZ
Posts: 9,997
i have lots of air in my system right now and no issues at 110 outside temps. Your results may vary.
__________________
82 Cherokee WT – SFwith Alcan/agr box/Borgeson shaft/ 401/performer/Holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS(2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave,Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37/Corbeau Moab Seats /Hella/tuffy console/sliders/custombumpers&roll bar/WARN 8000/steering brace/CO2 Tank/dual batts/custom TCskid plate





Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 08-08-2012, 10:52 AM
kevincdoyle's Avatar
kevincdoyle kevincdoyle is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 27, 2011
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullet
Air in the cooling system gets in the system through replacing a component
such as the thermostat water pump, radiator, draining and replacing the coolant.
The problem is you dont have enough coolant.
Remove radiator cap
Fill with coolant when engine reaches thermostat temp thermometer will open and allow coolant in*
Coolant level in Radiator will drop
Add Coolant
Repeat process until you see water circulating in radiator. 2 - 3 x
You are replacing the air with coolant.
This process will reveal information to diagnose the problem.
Coolant system is operating properly with coolant circulating and there is no air in the system.
*No coolant circulating Thermostat is malfunctioning ie remaining closed cold coolant in radiator after idling temperature rise on temperature guage.
Coolant is hot no circulation water pump malfunctioning (rare)
Coolant disappearing with no spots or leaks - Improper head gasket seal
( hard to diagnose) cylinder pressure check oil in coolant - muddy dipstick
The bullet
Check clutch fan belt tension this will work and slip - Belt must fit in V - groove tight and conform to the groove. New belts don't fit properly they are to wide, I had to re-tighten 3 x to stop problem

As ridiculous as this sounds, I think low coolant/air in the system was my issue. I went out and bought a couple gallons of distilled water and started pouring it in the radiator (cold) and it took more than a gallon. Also filled up resevoir as it looked low. The tube was sticking up through the coolant and I'm wondering if this could have caused it to "suck" in air when it need more coolant?

Thanks for all the guidance!
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 08-08-2012, 12:49 PM
talntar's Avatar
talntar talntar is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 12, 2002
Location: ansonia ct. 06401
Posts: 5,530
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevincdoyle
As ridiculous as this sounds, I think low coolant/air in the system was my issue. I went out and bought a couple gallons of distilled water and started pouring it in the radiator (cold) and it took more than a gallon. Also filled up resevoir as it looked low. The tube was sticking up through the coolant and I'm wondering if this could have caused it to "suck" in air when it need more coolant?

Thanks for all the guidance!

if it took more then a gallon in the rad you were really low,like by half!
__________________
85 gw 215k and still going
castrated(de-wooded)360 2" espo springs 31x10.5
89 gw,free,almost legal

She can dance a Cajun rhythm,Jump like a Willys in four wheel drive,

the world is full of kings and queens who blind your eyes and steal your dreams

"Our militarized "law enforcement" has become the standing army our founders feared"
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 08-08-2012, 05:09 PM
bullet bullet is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 09, 2011
Location: Cumming, Ga.
Posts: 58
Protect your investment and labor.

Remember that Water does freeze so dont forget to change it out this fall with premix antifreeze. Protect your investment and labor. keep on moving
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 08-08-2012, 07:03 PM
Rich88's Avatar
Rich88 Rich88 is offline
FSJ Maniac
 
Join Date: Nov 20, 2008
Location: Wilds of Ellington, CT
Posts: 4,182
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevincdoyle
...Also filled up resevoir as it looked low. The tube was sticking up through the coolant and I'm wondering if this could have caused it to "suck" in air when it need more coolant?

Yes, and then some. When draining & refilling the system, after initial fill at the radiator neck, you then need to fill and then keep filling the reservoir until it stops sucking back coolant after cool-down. May take 3-4 hot/cold cycles before its truly filled.
__________________
Jeepasaurus (Wagonus Grandi quadropedus)
88 GW 360-.030 over/2150/727/229/Posi, e-pump, AC (broke), tow package, Monroe Air Shocks, TFI, CTO-Free, AIR-free, oil & tranny coolers, dried knuckle blood all over, GM 350 TBI in a box, waiting...
"You're an FSJ'r when the parts guys memorize your name, phone & credit card#."
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 08-09-2012, 12:44 AM
danielheren danielheren is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 25, 2009
Location: Portland,OR
Posts: 76
Is the water pump a FlowKooler by chance? They're aluminum.
__________________
74' J20
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 08-09-2012, 12:27 PM
kevincdoyle's Avatar
kevincdoyle kevincdoyle is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 27, 2011
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielheren
Is the water pump a FlowKooler by chance? They're aluminum.

You know, I don't know. It is new from the rebuild and it's painted black. I'm assuming it is not as I talked with the rebuilder about the issues I read with FlowKooler's and he assured me it was a factory replacement.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 08-09-2012, 05:39 PM
FSJuanmxli's Avatar
FSJuanmxli FSJuanmxli is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Mar 29, 2011
Location: Calexico, Ca.
Posts: 22
my old man said (when he saw my hose collapse) if you brief you exhale so search the brief... conclusion, the radiator cap was not the right one it had a 13 pounds and i replaced for a 16 pounds and stop collapse and temp gets down.
i hope be helpful
__________________
1st SUV, Real 4WD, Best Memories...
'84 Grand Wagoneer
V8360
Edelbrock carb & intake manifold
Custom made Header
Magnaflow Cat & Muffler
BDS SUSPENSION 4"Lift kit
Bilstein5100 & Stabilizer
TransGo Shift Kit
Dana 44 Front & Rear 3.75 Gear ratio
285/75R16 BFGoodrich All Terrain T/A
And still working on it...
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 08-09-2012, 09:44 PM
shimniok's Avatar
shimniok shimniok is offline
FSJ Maniac
 
Join Date: Jan 08, 2003
Location: Centennial, Colorado
Posts: 2,907
I think there's been about 20 posts telling you to get an aftermarket temp gauge. If you haven't done it yet... let me say...

Until you get a trustworthy aftermarket temp gauge on this thing, we're all just stumbling around in the dark.

Is it really overheating? fluctuating? who knows? The temp gauge is suspect. Fix that first and find out what exactly is going on.

Michael
__________________
Broken Photobucket image in my post? PM me.
1986 Grand Wagoneer "Troubled Child"tc.wagoneer.orgFacebook • KØFSJ
Stock 360, TBI, 727 with TransGo, NP208, 4" Skyjacker, 33" BFG MT, WT Axles, Lock Right & ARB, OBA
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 08-09-2012, 10:14 PM
serehill's Avatar
serehill serehill is offline
Gone,Never Forgotten.
 
Join Date: Nov 22, 2009
Location: Mesquite Texas
Posts: 8,619
LOL

Explains a lot. I bet your temp guage is stable now.
__________________

80 Cherokee
360 ci 727 with
Comp cams 270 h
NP208
Edlebrock performer intake
Holley 4180
Msd total multi spark.
4" rusty's springs
Member, FSJ Prissy Restoration Association

If you can't make it better why waste your time. No use repeating the orignal mistakes. I'm to old to push it that's why.

Last edited by serehill : 08-09-2012 at 10:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Overheating while pulling trailer only - 79 Wagoneer/360 Ofeargall General FSJ Tech 19 05-24-2012 06:44 AM
Battery drain problem Huntindad General FSJ Tech 15 04-04-2012 07:44 AM
Overheating Problem CommanderChaos General FSJ Tech 30 06-10-2011 07:15 AM
Overheating Problem Solved ! Jeepster226 General FSJ Tech 1 08-06-2006 10:58 PM
Update on overheating problem...FIXED!! jeepthing General FSJ Tech 5 06-19-2003 11:53 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner