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  #1  
Old 04-26-2001, 04:22 PM
Snakeyes_Tx Snakeyes_Tx is offline
Bleedin' Gasoline
 
Join Date: Apr 09, 2000
Location: Houston, Tx - US
Posts: 1,599
Question

Okay folks... like Riverbeast, this should be your cup of tea here...

I've got 4 inch springs up front *and* I want to do a spring over. I'm planning on using the 39x18 Ground Hawg II radials. First off, here's what I've gathered...

If you do a Spring-over on stock springs, a 4-inch dropped pitman arm will correct the steering. Great!

I've got the stock flat pitman arm, and 4 inch springs, so I've got a little bit of an angle on the drag link. If I spring it over, *and* use a 4 inch dropped pitman arm, then I'll probably have the same amount of angle to my drag link already. I could probably live with that. Do they make a farther than 4 inch dropped pitman?

Also... my driveshaft right now is practically extended all the way out right now. Its angled about 20 degrees. It's got the CV joint on the transfer-case end. What I'm wondering is... after the spring over, first its not going to be long enough, and second the angle would be way too far for operational purposes (I think it max is 22-24 degrees right?)

Have any of ya'll considered putting a CV on the axle end of the shaft too? That way you get the CV's length added to push that driveshaft back in a little to give you some travel back, plus you double your max angle having CV's on both ends? Can it be done? Can the same CV in the back be used in the front too?

Just thought I'd run that by ya'll.. the drop stick seems a little impractical for a Spring-over on a budget.



------------------
Snakeyes_Tx
86 J-20 "The Rusty Dinosaur"
360/727/208/44HD/60 <- 2nd of all of them.
"If you don't know what the numbers mean, you don't need to be here!"
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  #2  
Old 04-26-2001, 04:34 PM
newbie newbie is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Apr 19, 2001
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 290
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Yeah, I was about to ask the same thing myself... With a SOA (and in Snakeyes_TX's case a SOA and 4" springs) do you have to drop the Transfer case? What other mods need to be done to ensure proper driveline angles with a SOA (or SOA with 4" springs)

Thanks,
Newbie
------------

[This message has been edited by newbie (edited April 26, 2001).]
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  #3  
Old 04-26-2001, 10:58 PM
Mud Thrasher Mud Thrasher is offline
Gear Head
 
Join Date: Jan 21, 2001
Location: Baker,La,USA
Posts: 676
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I don't know it all about all of the specifics on all that but one quick ?. Have you thought of your drive line running those big massive ground hawg's? Those are the most aggressive tires that i know of. I know that when you put bigger tires on our beasts of burden they strain the drivetrain. But to put those on that big would seem to be asking for snapped u-joints anytime that those tires bite into anything. I dunno but I hope that this doesnt bust your bubble too much.

------------------
'78 Chief 360/quadra-trac
D-44 f&r/3.55 r&p/31x10.5x15 G/Year Mt's
dual exhaust
Mallory Unilite Dist.
Edelbrock 4bbl 1405 carb
lined gas tank
free rust/new body soon
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  #4  
Old 04-27-2001, 02:14 AM
River Beast River Beast is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 18, 2000
Location: Lakewood, Calif
Posts: 11,642
Post

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snakeyes_Tx:
Okay folks... like Riverbeast, this should be your cup of tea here...

I've got 4 inch springs up front *and* I want to do a spring over. I'm planning on using the 39x18 Ground Hawg II radials. First off, here's what I've gathered...

If you do a Spring-over on stock springs, a 4-inch dropped pitman arm will correct the steering. Great!

I've got the stock flat pitman arm, and 4 inch springs, so I've got a little bit of an angle on the drag link. If I spring it over, *and* use a 4 inch dropped pitman arm, then I'll probably have the same amount of angle to my drag link already. I could probably live with that. Do they make a farther than 4 inch dropped pitman?

Also... my driveshaft right now is practically extended all the way out right now. Its angled about 20 degrees. It's got the CV joint on the transfer-case end. What I'm wondering is... after the spring over, first its not going to be long enough, and second the angle would be way too far for operational purposes (I think it max is 22-24 degrees right?)

Have any of ya'll considered putting a CV on the axle end of the shaft too? That way you get the CV's length added to push that driveshaft back in a little to give you some travel back, plus you double your max angle having CV's on both ends? Can it be done? Can the same CV in the back be used in the front too?

Just thought I'd run that by ya'll.. the drop stick seems a little impractical for a Spring-over on a budget.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok...here goes....to your first question:

1. My 4" dropped pitman worked fine with the 4" Skyjacker...once I did the SOA the angle was soo great, the tierod ends would not angle enuf to even mount to the pitman arm or the main tierod all the way... it allowed left-hand steering only and was WAY too short with only 1/4" of meat on each side of the adjuster holding. If you turn right, the draglink at this angle will hit the pass side spring pretty quick... I have pics of theis on my original site... check it... they are with the 4" drop pitman.

The answer to this is "NO" the 4" drop pitman will not be enuf IF you have a true 4" lift spring.


2nd Question:

2. You are correct the max operating angle is 22 degrees normal is about 16 degrees is optimal operating for a stock shaft. Now with my 4" skyjacker, my shaft was maxed out in length and angle, but still worked. they do make a dual CV shaft (custom) but is pricey and in esswnce will increase your angles...how.... like this:

The single u-joint centerpoint of angle is much closer to the pinion... therfore adding a CV joint to that end will move the overall angle away from the pinion, thus increasing the driveline angle. You will NOT gain more angle with stock CV's at each end.... and YES a CV can be used in the rear HIGHLY recommended to cancel vibes caused by pointing the rear diff pinion at the T-case.

In a nutshell... you should do the high steering cross-over steering setup that I have as well as "FulMetal" and "Above the Law" both of these FSJers were WAY ahead od me in the high steering game and gave me much input to get where I am today.

The CV issue with the front angle correction is a tough one... I have only found 3 companies that will make a high-angle CV for the amount of angle created by the SOA and lift springs... www.gloeco.com , www.4xshaft.com and www.highangledriveline.com . All 3 companies want $700 or better to fabricate a shaft to work for me... but I have heard that a front shaft from a 78 Ford Bronco with an auto trans is a direct bolt-in replacement that works.... Above the Law is running one right now, but I can't find one.

As for dropping the T-Case.... this will reduce angle in the rear but actually increase angle in the front because the front output shaft of the T-case is naturally point upward to begin with.

Hope this helps you work things out....It can get frustrating trying to get the "bugs" worked out....I know.... I have picked many brains in the recent past.... thanks to all who helped....


------------------
Todd
"River Beast"

14" of total Lift on 39.5" Swampers
44's locked with 4.89's
...and other stuff...
My Original FSJ site
riverbeast@earthlink.net

"When approaching an intersection, remember...
the vehicle with the BIGGEST TIRES has the right of way..."


'93 3/4 ton 4x4 Suburban...a.k.a. "FSJ Hauler"
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  #5  
Old 04-27-2001, 06:35 AM
Snakeyes_Tx Snakeyes_Tx is offline
Bleedin' Gasoline
 
Join Date: Apr 09, 2000
Location: Houston, Tx - US
Posts: 1,599
Question

So RB, lemme guess, are you currently rear-wheel drive only? I've noticed alot of folks who SOa, have no front shaft for a lil while until they can afford to get one made

How bout dual CV's at the trasnfer-case end? I can find another driveshaft somewhere and rob the CV I need from it. I paid 10 bucks at a junkyard for the driveshaft I've got now.

To answer the durability of U-joint question that came up... After I get all this done, I'm probably going to upgrade to the 1-ton U-joints that you see all over www.highangledriveline.com


------------------


Snakeyes_Tx
86 J-20 "The Rusty Dinosaur"
360/727/208/44HD/60 &lt;- 2nd of all of them.
"If you don't know what the numbers mean, you don't need to be here!"

[This message has been edited by Snakeyes_Tx (edited April 27, 2001).]
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  #6  
Old 04-27-2001, 01:10 PM
fulmetal fulmetal is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Apr 13, 2000
Location: New Holland, Pa.
Posts: 328
Thumbs up

Hey I could not have said it any better than RiverBeast already has. The only true way in my opinion is to find a reverse cut D44 from a ford put it up front and you wouold have no angle probs. All of the other things that you mentioned has compromisses(sp).

Dual CV's would still make it worse because it still makes you operating length shorter.. Here are your choices 1) drop the power train straight down. 2) reverse cut front diff. 3) buy the atlass T/C so you can clock it as far down as possible 4) some how space back the T/c To makethe front shaft longer (Hey good excuse to buy a Klune V)

Just a few thoughts good luck and keep us informed

Hey Todd, thanx for keeping such a good updated site for those of us who hate to type all this stuff

------------------
84 Grand Wag
360, soa, headers,
33 bfg,on board welder,air
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/Album...a=11248759&f=0
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  #7  
Old 04-27-2001, 01:30 PM
Toy Time Toy Time is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 08, 2001
Location: Maywood, Missouri
Posts: 19
Post

Another option to correct the front shaft angle is to roll the front axle up until you reach an acceptable angle. However, if you are going to do this, you'll have to determine what fluid level to maintain for adequate lubrication.

When I orginally put mine back together, I welded the perches on so that the top pin was 4 degrees behind the lower. According to my alignment man this is the correct location to be able to do a front end alignment. I was a little slow on the shaft angle problem and had everything back together before we spotted it. With my setup, I need to roll the front axle 16 degrees to put the CV at a 16 degree angle when sitting still. To correct this, I'm going to cut the perches off and roll the axle to correct the shaft. After welding the perches back on, I'm going to cut the outers off of the axle and rotate them back to the desired position for alignment and weld them back on.

Check out the previous info in the CV Joint posting on page 4 for more info.


------------------
79' Waggie
SOA & 4" custom susp lift with Rear shackle reversal (12" total lift)
33 x 12.5 on 15 x 10 AR rims
360 driving a T400
2" dual exh w/3" bells
custom bumpers & brush guard
NO BRAINS
Given a little time, a twelve pack and a couple of born & breed farm boys, we can make anything work!
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  #8  
Old 04-27-2001, 07:37 PM
River Beast River Beast is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 18, 2000
Location: Lakewood, Calif
Posts: 11,642
Post

Correct.... shaftless as of right now....but still play hard

Mike... no problem keeping the site updated... I enjoy it....

Toytime,

I had my pinion set straight to the T-case (research phase of SOA)....OEM shaft would still not work. The angle is too great for the stock CV....maxed out prior to even lining up....

Also... when you roatate your knuckles, just drill and tap a 1/2" pipe plug into the top of the diff housing to fil 'er up...no problems there...or just fill it slowly thru the vent tube.89-456+1

------------------
Todd
"River Beast"

14" of total Lift on 39.5" Swampers
44's locked with 4.89's
...and other stuff...
My Original FSJ site
riverbeast@earthlink.net

"When approaching an intersection, remember...
the vehicle with the BIGGEST TIRES has the right of way..."


'93 3/4 ton 4x4 Suburban...a.k.a. "FSJ Hauler"
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