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Old 03-06-2010, 04:06 PM
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Grantshire Grantshire is offline
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Anyone moved their front axle forward by reversing springs?

I tried to search this but could not find the right word combination to turn up the information.

I am trying to find out if anyone has reversed their front springs to move the front axle forward 2" (stock configuration on the 47" front springs is 24.5" front eye-to-pin in front and 22.5" pin-to-rear eye on the front spring rear hamger) and what experience/complications they had. I am going SOA with a Dodge Dana 60 with crossover steering on this project so tie rod issues should be delt with. Would prefer not to get into replacing hangers or extending the frame.

Any of you guys done this? Pictures are always welcome!

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62 Willys SW
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74 Wagoneer Custom
79 WT Cherokee Chief
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Last edited by Grantshire : 03-06-2010 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 03-06-2010, 05:28 PM
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1983 j10 1983 j10 is offline
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if done you will have to cut your fenders for tire cleanerce also you will have to extened your front drive shaft for sure. also it might make your steering a little goofy.
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1983 j10 lwb soon to be a 4.5l stroker AMC 20 rear 44 front 4spd manual in the process of restoring

01 xj 3" and 31's
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Old 03-06-2010, 05:31 PM
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Grantshire Grantshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1983 j10
if done you will have to cut your fenders for tire cleanerce also you will have to extened your front drive shaft for sure. also it might make your steering a little goofy.

No fenders on this rig and driveshaft will be custom after axles, engine, tranny and TC are in.
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Old 03-06-2010, 05:33 PM
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1983 j10 1983 j10 is offline
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well that solves those problems. the only other thing is the way the frame is shapped in the front and it might affect how far your articulation is.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grantshire
No fenders on this rig and driveshaft will be custom after axles, engine, tranny and TC are in.
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1983 j10 lwb soon to be a 4.5l stroker AMC 20 rear 44 front 4spd manual in the process of restoring

01 xj 3" and 31's
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  #5  
Old 03-06-2010, 05:53 PM
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bearfacedkiller bearfacedkiller is offline
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Caster?

I flipped my rear springs the other day and it threw my pinion angle way off. I don't think the front will rotate as much, if at all, but it is something to check on. I also had a shim on the 4" lift springs I took out and there is no shim on the stock springs I put back in.
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1985 GW: stock springs, SOA/SF, 3 inch body lift, d60 w/spool, 14ff w/detroit, 4.56 gears, 360/465/205 w/twin sticks and 40's.

I really am going to get this thing done soon so I can drive it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by bearfacedkiller : 03-06-2010 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 03-06-2010, 06:12 PM
rocklaurence rocklaurence is offline
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I was looking at this today, as Im doing a Shackle Reversal on my J15. Using the front mount will only pull the axle forward 1". Note in this confiuration the tire on compression will be pushed back away from the front fender and on droop it will move forward and down (minimizing the potential foer contact with the front). At the rear, the mount will be too close requiring that it be moved back 2" or you need a longer shackle to prevent the spring from over extending the shackle. Also note, if you move the axle too far forward the steering will bind. On my setup, Im going to make 4" tall mounts for the front and longer shackles to minimize caster change.
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Old 03-06-2010, 06:48 PM
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Grantshire Grantshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearfacedkiller
Caster?

I flipped my rear springs the other day and it threw my pinion angle way off. I don't think the front will rotate as much, if at all, but it is something to check on. I also had a shim on the 4" lift springs I took out and there is no shim on the stock springs I put back in.

Rear perches are off my axle so I can adjust as needed when we weld them back on. The offset front springs are what I am chasing since they are offset from the factory with the short side to the rear. Simply reversing them moves the front axle forward 2". As stated before I think I will be safe doing this since it will be SOA and have crossover steering. Just trying to find out what issues others have found doing this.

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Old 03-06-2010, 07:16 PM
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Richard,
I have not done this yet but with just crossover it looks like it will work for my front D60.
Where I am at right now with the HD44 and full high steering:
I have 1/4" of room, if I move it forward the drag link will cross over the tie rod, it will make contact at that point.
Cross-over is the next option for me, or swapping the tie rod to the rear.
I know the parts are out there to do that, just not at that decision point yet.
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  #9  
Old 03-06-2010, 07:23 PM
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rockin wagoneer rockin wagoneer is offline
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i have done this by mistake and it didnt mess up the steering or anything even the drive shafts work on it if u have ? let me know and i can tell u what i know.
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  #10  
Old 03-06-2010, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockin wagoneer
i have done this by mistake and it didnt mess up the steering or anything even the drive shafts work on it if u have ? let me know and i can tell u what i know.
Got pic's?
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IFSJA WMS PROJECT
EARLY WAG LIFT SEARCH

Quote:
...Pay no attention to these heathen barbarians with their cutting torches and 8" lift kits!...

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  #11  
Old 03-06-2010, 07:42 PM
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Grantshire Grantshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad
Richard,
I have not done this yet but with just crossover it looks like it will work for my front D60.
Where I am at right now with the HD44 and full high steering:
I have 1/4" of room, if I move it forward the drag link will cross over the tie rod, it will make contact at that point.
Cross-over is the next option for me, or swapping the tie rod to the rear.
I know the parts are out there to do that, just not at that decision point yet.

Hey, Tad, how you been? I am working a CJ10A tug frame with the the Nissan SD33 6 cylinder diesel and 727 automatic. We are building it as a trail rig with the stock Dana 70 rear (narrowed) and a Dodge Dana 60 front, both with 4.88 gears. Have a Dana 300 with upgraded output shafts and Lomax 4:1 kit going behind the 727 instead of a 208.

The CJ10A was a special made Jeep for the Air Force to tow airplanes on the ground and is basically a cut down FSJ frame that only has an 88" wheelbase. I can stretch it by 8" just by turning the front and rear springs around. We are not using the CJ10A tub but I really don't want to lengthen the frame. My 69 Commando trail rig wheelbase is 101" so trying to make this one a shorter wheelbase.

Have not decided for sure how we will address the rear lift to go with the front Dana 60 being SOA but will probably go with your flip kit.
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  #12  
Old 03-06-2010, 08:27 PM
adamsclarke adamsclarke is offline
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I did it on my CJ5, does that count? at 2", I doubt you'll get any issues with the steering box. Are you running full high steer or crossover. I know Matt up at Independent4x sells the arms that are undrilled, so you can get your draglink where you want without hitting the Tierod.
My commando was the same way...about 2" extra up font with no issues on that waggy box either.
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Old 03-07-2010, 07:55 AM
rocklaurence rocklaurence is offline
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The reason I said the axle would move forward 1" is because the shackle isnt set verticle in the compressed state (the spring eye is further forward than the mount by approx an inch). So, reversing the spring will only move the axle forward 1". You will have to correct the caster with a wedge or some other means.
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:50 AM
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alwomac alwomac is offline
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Redrill method for axle relocation

Another option that I don't see utilized much is to redrill the top spring for axle location. Just take your leaf springs apart, redrill the top spring for the new location, and put it all back together. This takes very little time, especially if you have a bolt together leaf spring strap instead of the hammer together and weld straps. The spring steel does take a little more effort to drill through, but just start with a good 1/8" bit and then work up a few sizes at a time to keep heat down until you get the 3/8" hole. Works great and you can really dial in exact location. You can't get crazy with this method, but it will give you 1.5" either direction for location.
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Old 03-07-2010, 09:16 AM
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bearfacedkiller bearfacedkiller is offline
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Well our setups sound real similar so I will show you what I have been trying to figure out. I have a dana 60 from a 77 dodge and have already setup my highsteer. I have a new stock 85 wagon tierod and drag link with 1 ton chevy tie rod ends. It looks to me like if I reverse my springs I will move almost 2 inches and I only have about an inch of room.







So my solution would be to buy a double ended arm and run your tierod behind the axle or do crossover only.
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1985 GW: stock springs, SOA/SF, 3 inch body lift, d60 w/spool, 14ff w/detroit, 4.56 gears, 360/465/205 w/twin sticks and 40's.

I really am going to get this thing done soon so I can drive it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by bearfacedkiller : 03-07-2010 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 03-07-2010, 09:16 AM
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jeeper4life jeeper4life is offline
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axle move

I flipped my springs around when I sprung mine over but found that my tires got into my fenders on the front too much, so I switched mine back. The steering was ok. Erik
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Old 03-07-2010, 10:13 AM
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Grantshire Grantshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearfacedkiller
Well our setups sound real similar so I will show you what I have been trying to figure out. I have a dana 60 from a 77 dodge and have already setup my highsteer. I have a new stock 85 wagon tierod and drag link with 1 ton chevy tie rod ends. It looks to me like if I reverse my springs I will move almost 2 inches and I only have about an inch of room.







So my solution would be to buy a double ended arm and run your tierod behind the axle or do crossover only.

Your setup looks very similar to what we did with my Commando that is SOA with Dana 44 axles. I used the steering box mount that moved the box forward about an inch and did not have to use a dropped pitman arm.

Your pictures and the comments from others confirm my calculations that I will not have any issues revesing the springs to push the axle forward 2" as long as I go crossover steering and address the tie rod location.

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Old 03-07-2010, 10:38 AM
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Grantshire Grantshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamsclarke
I did it on my CJ5, does that count? at 2", I doubt you'll get any issues with the steering box. Are you running full high steer or crossover. I know Matt up at Independent4x sells the arms that are undrilled, so you can get your draglink where you want without hitting the Tierod.
My commando was the same way...about 2" extra up font with no issues on that waggy box either.

Remember the Commando build (and also the J10 stepside) but forgot you pushed the front axle forward. Your comments/experience, those of others here, plus the pictures confirm my calculations - always best to check things out before starting the build.

Still studying and engineering the rear axle setup. Going SOA in front with the Dodge Dana 60 will lift the front by 6"-7" and the rear is already SOA (stock) so I need to come up with a way to match the front. Planning on staying with the stock FSJ outboarded rear springs location (possibly with a slight modification). Tad's shackle flip is an option and with reversed FSJ springs will net me a wheelbase of about 96" (2.5" longer than a CJ7/YJ/TJ). Also considering a longer rear spring (60"-63") but would require relocate the rear hanger all the way back, may even incorporate it into the rear bumper/crossmember. The way the offsets work on the longer springs I won't gain more than another inch in wheelbase but the flex should be better with a longer spring.

Stay tuned...
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  #19  
Old 03-07-2010, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grantshire
Hey, Tad, how you been? ...(insert really cool project description from above)...Have not decided for sure how we will address the rear lift to go with the front Dana 60 being SOA but will probably go with your flip kit.
I'd be happy to work with you on that Richard.
When you can, shoot me some pic's of the CJ10A rear hangers and we can compare with what's been made, what's been modified for myself/others (the post mount versions) and what it will take to get it done.
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IFSJA WMS PROJECT
EARLY WAG LIFT SEARCH

Quote:
...Pay no attention to these heathen barbarians with their cutting torches and 8" lift kits!...

Self Inflicted Flesh Wound
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  #20  
Old 03-07-2010, 02:33 PM
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Grantshire Grantshire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad
I'd be happy to work with you on that Richard.
When you can, shoot me some pic's of the CJ10A rear hangers and we can compare with what's been made, what's been modified for myself/others (the post mount versions) and what it will take to get it done.

Thanks Tad, PM sent.
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