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  #1  
Old 12-05-2006, 05:54 PM
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I must be blind...or stupid!D70vs14FF

I won a 14FF dually axle about a month ago out of an 88 Chevy. I picked it up on a rainy saturday, got it home in the dark, unloaded it and stuffed it in my shop for safe keeping until I was ready to mount it in the FSJRV frame.

Well, I was just outside smoking a Kool, looking at my pile of parts and wishing my heads were done at the machine shop so I could work on my engine. I glanced over at the massive axle and noticed, no removable pinion support. I started to worry. I took a closer look to see any marking on it, and I see on the front passenger side webbing, upside down "70HD". I thought to myself, "could this be a Dana 70?", and I look at the webbing on the driverside and see the familiar Dana diamond!

So, how does the 70 stack up against the 14FF? Is a dually 70 a good score for $75 and a 30 mile drive to pick it up? And lasty, when the heck did Chevy start tossing 70s in there heavy junk instead of the 14bolt? I thought it was in the 90s!
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Last edited by FSJ Thing : 12-05-2006 at 06:07 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-05-2006, 06:06 PM
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  #3  
Old 12-05-2006, 06:14 PM
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You shouldnt have any problems. The 70 is plenty beefy, 1.5 inch 35 spline shafts and all.
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Old 12-05-2006, 07:11 PM
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The Dana 70 is very comprable to the 14 bolt in strength. The pinion is generally regarded as a little weaker than the 14 bolt, but with the 70 you get a much better gear and locker selection. GM put 70s under their duallies for years. I got one out of a 78 model truck for my project. They didn't actually start using 14 bolts in duallies (except c&c trucks) until sometime in the late 80s or early 90s. Your 70 must be from right at the cutoff.

Last edited by JoshH : 12-06-2006 at 12:30 AM.
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  #5  
Old 12-05-2006, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshH
They didn't actually start using 14 bolts in duallies (except c&c trucks) until sometime in the late 80s or early 90s. Your 70 must be from right at the cutoff.
in the 70s,chevy used 14 bolts in pickups(72" WMS),and under "cab and chassis" trucks(63.5" WMS). for some reason,sometime inthe 80s, youd get a d70 in pickups,but youd still get the 14 bolt in a cab and chassis. sometime late 80s or early 90s,it was back to the 14 bolt in pickups and C&Cs.

at any rate, the d70 is indeed very comparable and a good score for $75
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85 grand wagoneer
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38" TSL SXs
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  #6  
Old 12-06-2006, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty
in the 70s,chevy used 14 bolts in pickups(72" WMS),and under "cab and chassis" trucks(63.5" WMS). for some reason,sometime inthe 80s, youd get a d70 in pickups,but youd still get the 14 bolt in a cab and chassis. sometime late 80s or early 90s,it was back to the 14 bolt in pickups and C&Cs.

at any rate, the d70 is indeed very comparable and a good score for $75
All I know is every dually pickup I have seen or heard of prior to the 88 and newer body style had the Dana 70. Supposedly after the release of the 88 body style duallies they started using 14 bolts in dually pickups. I know for a fact the rear axle out of the 78 chevy dually that I pulled my axles from is a D70HD.
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Old 12-06-2006, 06:31 AM
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I don't mean to hi-jack the thread, but while we're on the subject anybody know the WMS-WMS difference in a standard single wheel 14B and a dually? I don't know the BS specs on a dually wheel, but how wide would it end up if you stuck a set of dually wheels on regular single wheel 14B?
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Old 12-06-2006, 07:56 AM
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Standard single wheel WMS width is about 67". Like scotty said earlier a pickup dually axle is around 72" and a C&C axle is about 63". If you have a single wheel axle you can turn it into a C&C width by swapping on dually hubs, and if you have a C&C axle you can change it into a single wheel width axle by swapping on single wheel hubs. Also, if you have a dually pickup axle you can match wheel mounting surface widths (within .5-1") with a dually dana 60 front by swapping on single wheel hubs. That's what I did to my axles because I'm using non recentered HMMWV wheels, and I didn't want to have interference with my steering or have a hub sticking out 6" outside the wheel.
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  #9  
Old 12-06-2006, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotRodYJ
I don't mean to hi-jack the thread, but while we're on the subject anybody know the WMS-WMS difference in a standard single wheel 14B and a dually? I don't know the BS specs on a dually wheel, but how wide would it end up if you stuck a set of dually wheels on regular single wheel 14B?

standard single wheel is 67.5" WMS. pickup width dually is 72" WMS. a cab and chassis dually is 63.5" WMS.

you are talking of putting the dual wheels on a single wheel hub,yes? if so,that basically gets you an axle thats 2" wider per side than a C&C dually,yet alittle over 2" narrower per side than a pickup width dually.

using the dual wheels on the SRW hub will work,if you have the smallest brakes available,and you machine the slight bulge at the bottom of the hub even with the rest. and of course youll have to install dually studs. i do not think a disc conversion will work with the dual wheels without either: a)alot of grinding on the calipers or b) spacing the rotor/caliper farther back from the hub.

reason i know all this is that i was planning on doing all that in my suburban,so ive slid the wheels onto a 14 bolt i have from a 3/4 ton truck(small brakes) and ive tried to slide them over the disc braked 14 bolt in my scout.

the potential prollem youll have in doing it is the leaf springs. if youve ever worked on a real dually axle then you know how looooong and huge the drums are. good for stopping,hard for swapping all 1 ton trucks have a narrower spring perch width to accomodate the massive drums in a C&C equiped truck. the drums on a C&C axle will hit the springs if they are spaced as they are on a 3/4 ton truck.so the springs are moved inward via different hangers,on 1 ton trucks.

so you may or may not have trouble with the wheels hitting the leaf springs,depending on what youre installing the axle into. i seem to remember thinking that the inner wheel would barely clear the leaf spring on the SRW axle,judging its distance from the 3/4 ton spaced perch.

the other potential prollem youll have is if youre installing it into a truck with a bed,youll prolly have inner wheel clearance issues on the wells,and have to "tub" it,like a race car. if youre putting it under a flat bed,then youre good to go.

i put the 1 ton hangers,springs, and a C&C 14 bolt under my truck. i wanted the skinniest dually axle i could have,and i wanted to big dually brakes since im building it to tow/haul things.

let me know if you have further questions
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85 grand wagoneer
258/t18/d20/10 bolt/14 bolt
38" TSL SXs
chopped,bobbed and caged

http://nightcrawlers4wd.20megsfree.com/index.html\

http://mytrailrigs4x4.20megsfree.com/photo.html\
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  #10  
Old 12-06-2006, 08:20 AM
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Thanks Scotty, great info and exactly what I was looking for.
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  #11  
Old 12-06-2006, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshH
All I know is every dually pickup I have seen or heard of prior to the 88 and newer body style had the Dana 70. Supposedly after the release of the 88 body style duallies they started using 14 bolts in dually pickups. I know for a fact the rear axle out of the 78 chevy dually that I pulled my axles from is a D70HD.

a friend of mine has a 79 dually,with a 12 foot,7.5 foot wide flatbed thats using the wide 14 bolt. now that i think about it,all the wide duallys ive seen in the 70s were 10 and 12 foot flatbeds-maybe thats got somethin to do with it? who knows. another friend of mine has an 80 2wd crew cab that he claims to have a dana 80 in the rear
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85 grand wagoneer
258/t18/d20/10 bolt/14 bolt
38" TSL SXs
chopped,bobbed and caged

http://nightcrawlers4wd.20megsfree.com/index.html\

http://mytrailrigs4x4.20megsfree.com/photo.html\
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  #12  
Old 12-06-2006, 09:22 AM
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I've toyed with making a dually type looking thing out of a 66 Chevy truck I'm working on. It's a 2WD short stepside and the bed needs serious work. Thinking while I'm at it stick the extra 14B I've got under there with some dually wheels and build a new stepside a little wider to get the stepside fenders out over the wheels. It's currently a coil rear suspension but I can do anything I want back there. Thinking 4 link link it on airbags, I don't know, just toying with ideas.

Hey a Tandem Dually would be even cooler, slammed on the ground. Make a nice toy hauler for my Heep wouldn't it.
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  #13  
Old 12-06-2006, 09:31 AM
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sounds like a cool project i love that era of chevy truck,so make sure you send me some pics or links to pics of it as y ou go

i had a 68 c30 i wanted to build into my tow rig,but it ended up being just too rough with a bent frame and the floors in the cab were shot

my current tow rig project is a 4wd diesel crew cab made from half of an 84 suburban,a flatbed,a C&C axle,and the front axle,engine and tranny from an 83 blazer
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scotty
85 grand wagoneer
258/t18/d20/10 bolt/14 bolt
38" TSL SXs
chopped,bobbed and caged

http://nightcrawlers4wd.20megsfree.com/index.html\

http://mytrailrigs4x4.20megsfree.com/photo.html\
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  #14  
Old 12-06-2006, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty
reason i know all this is that i was planning on doing all that in my suburban
What works really well is using 1 ton springs and hangers with a C&C 14 bolt and 3" blocks. Bolted some dually adapters on the front and it was good to go. I helped a friend of mine do that and it worked really well. Here are a few pics.

Attachment 2811

Attachment 2812

Attachment 2813

Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty
a friend of mine has a 79 dually,with a 12 foot,7.5 foot wide flatbed thats using the wide 14 bolt. now that i think about it,all the wide duallys ive seen in the 70s were 10 and 12 foot flatbeds-maybe thats got somethin to do with it? who knows. another friend of mine has an 80 2wd crew cab that he claims to have a dana 80 in the rear
I guess I've never seen a C&C truck with a wide axle. I'm guessing it's C&C if the bed is that long.

Last edited by JoshH : 12-06-2006 at 10:44 AM.
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  #15  
Old 12-12-2006, 11:41 AM
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Off Topic a bit and please excuse my crude picture chop, but what do you think of this for a new tow rig? Just imagine the looks when you pull into a campground with a nice 5th wheel attached to it

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  #16  
Old 12-12-2006, 12:04 PM
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Definitely looks sweet! but personally, I'd be hesitant to put any kind of load on such low profile tires, even 4 of them. hit a pothole at 70mph with a gooseneck on that bad boy and you're out $2000 worth of rims!
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Old 12-12-2006, 12:22 PM
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I think the D70 is slightly tougher than the 14 bolt, it's got a higher torque rating, load rating, and the shafts are 1.5" 35 spline all the way through, whereas the 14 bolts neck down in the middle of the shafts...but both are nearly unbreakable. IMO
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  #18  
Old 12-12-2006, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt thompson
I think the D70 is slightly tougher than the 14 bolt, it's got a higher torque rating, load rating, and the shafts are 1.5" 35 spline all the way through, whereas the 14 bolts neck down in the middle of the shafts...but both are nearly unbreakable. IMO

After doing some research on some Chevy boards and ebay I agree. I don't think the 70 has the extra pinion support like the 14FF, but the over all beefierness of all the components (like you mentioned about the shafts) and the greater thinkness of the tubes (I have a 70HD) better suits this axle to my intended application of it, under an off-roadable RV.

And it appears I did get it for a steal, which is funny:

I "won" this "14FF" out of a 88 chevy crew cab dually that was being parted out. I went to pick it up in Redmond, down by Seattle and when I got there, it wasn't in some guys back yard, it was in a WAREHOUSE for a SPEED SHOP!! Speed shop as in RICER heaven (no hotrods, nothing but Mitsubishis and a Porche in front)! So I pay them, get it home and two months later find out it's a 70HD, do some research, and 70HDs are going for about $400+ on ebay, vs. $75 for a 14FF. Granted, I didn't recognize this axle at first either, but the fact that a ricer speed shop took a $350 loss due to misidentifying this thing is funny to me.
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  #19  
Old 12-13-2006, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt thompson
I guess I've never seen a C&C truck with a wide axle. I'm guessing it's C&C if the bed is that long.


on my truck,with a C&C axle,my 6.5 foot wide flatbed covers the axle. the wide dually would definately stick out past it some. my friends truck has a 7.5 foot wide bed,and it looks about the same as my truck-i.e.,the bed isnt hangin 6" past the tires per side like it would with my C&C axle under it.

who knows? i know his truck has the wide 14 bolt,and ive seen a couple of others as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by matt thompson
Bolted some dually adapters on the front and it was good to go.

please tell me where you got the dually adapters you used on the front. ive been looking for something like that for my project crew cab for quite some time. ive got a C&C axle in the rear allready,and id really like to be able to use dually rims up front also. every spacer or adapter ive come across is 2" maximum,wich i wasnt sure was big enuff,and have disclaimers about not using up front with a single wheel. find me a link or phone # and ill be your best friend forever

nice lookin truck. i love suburbans,the C&C dually burb looks pretty sharp. a friend of mine had one with a d70 dually rear that was allegedly a dealer covnersion-had the flairs and everything. it was a neat truck,but a minor PITA to get gas into because of how the filler neck was nounted in one of the flairs

im going to do the single wheel axle with dual wheels thing on my burb since i dont have any more 1 ton hangers,and i dont have another C&C axle
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85 grand wagoneer
258/t18/d20/10 bolt/14 bolt
38" TSL SXs
chopped,bobbed and caged

http://nightcrawlers4wd.20megsfree.com/index.html\

http://mytrailrigs4x4.20megsfree.com/photo.html\
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  #20  
Old 12-13-2006, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotRodYJ
Off Topic a bit and please excuse my crude picture chop, but what do you think of this for a new tow rig? Just imagine the looks when you pull into a campground with a nice 5th wheel attached to it


that is bad *ss! but yeaaaaah,id lift it up some and put some meatier tires on it. im not a huge fan of slammed and low profile tires when it comes to trucks
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scotty
85 grand wagoneer
258/t18/d20/10 bolt/14 bolt
38" TSL SXs
chopped,bobbed and caged

http://nightcrawlers4wd.20megsfree.com/index.html\

http://mytrailrigs4x4.20megsfree.com/photo.html\
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