International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tire Kickin' > General FSJ Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #41  
Old 04-09-2021, 06:46 AM
fulsizjeep's Avatar
fulsizjeep fulsizjeep is offline
Señor Jackhead
 
Join Date: Aug 21, 2002
Location: Jubilee Jeeps.SWCO
Posts: 22,476
Quote:
Originally Posted by J20 project
Pretty sure i have a used set up if that would do.

Bud is a good guy who's been doing this stuff a long time. If he has a set, jump on it.
__________________
Flint
Ran when parked.
http://jubileejeeps.org/quadratrac
88 GW, 401/727/208, 5" lift, D44s/4.10s/locked up, 35s with a few Evil Twin & TT's Fabworks mods
76 401 Wag, 77 401 Wag, 77 401 J20
http://eviltwinfab.com http://www.ttsfabworks.com
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 04-11-2021, 07:21 PM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 31, 2016
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 4,169
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJTD
Something mentioned above, though not explicit, made me think.

You sure the side gears are ok after the spiders shredded?
....
I am not sure at all. In fact, I would be surprised if there is NOT more damage in there. I plan to pull my carrier, clean everything in the pumpkin out, and re-install the carrier when I replace the spider/side gears.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Jeeper
I had an older ARB in a Dana 35 in the back of my XJ. After lots of miles, the differential case (pumpkin housing) stretched more than .015" and I lost my preload on the carrier bearings. The ARB started to get stressed from lack of preload and it popped the heads off the cap screws that held it together. As the ring gear turned, it picked up the bolt head and carried it into the pinion gear and the gears ate the bolt head. Some of the pieces wound up in the pinion bearings.

Long story short, I got a new ARB locker from the ARB guys and bought a used Dana 35 to put it in.

Once a gear breaks, the tiny pieces often get swept up into the pinion gear teeth and the pinion bearings. A complete disassembly is probably in order to examine the pinion gear teeth and the pinion bearings. Also flushing out the oil path that lubes the pinion bearings (there is an oil path cast into the pumpkin).

Have you considered picking up a used axle if one is available and swapping it in? Swapping an axle is pretty easy. The hardest part is hooking up the e-brake cables and bleeding the brake hydraulic lines.
I have not really considered replacing the axle assembly. Finding a wide track D44 (or AMC 20) with 3.54s (so they match my front axle) would be a little difficult around here these days. I have a POC that might have one and if he does, I'll see how much he wants.
I think for now, my plan is going to be to pull my carrier, do a deep clean and inspect (expecting/hoping there is not more "really bad" damage in there), replace the spider/side gears, and stick it back together with fresh oil. If I could find an axle that would bolt in, for cheap, I would buy it but I have a feeling the correct axle would be prohibitively expensive (probably cheaper to just go the rebuild/Grip Pro route).
Quote:
Originally Posted by J20 project
Pretty sure i have a used set up if that would do.
PM in bound...
Quote:
Originally Posted by fulsizjeep
Bud is a good guy who's been doing this stuff a long time. If he has a set, jump on it.
FACTS!!! Bud has done my front drive shaft 3 times! Not because he has done less than perfect work but, because I need it lengthened twice and broke it once.
__________________
79 Cherokee Chief (passed CA smog check Sept 2020)
(Cherokee Build Thread)
11 Nissan Pathfinder Silver Edition 4x4
09 Mazdaspeed3 Grand Touring
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 04-11-2021, 08:50 PM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 31, 2016
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 4,169
Holy parts search! I found a D44 from a 77 Cherokee, with 3:54s, for $150, drum to drum, locally! I plan to pick it up when I get home, throw some fresh gear oil in it, and throw it under my truck. Then I will take my fragged axle apart and start cleaning it and getting it ready for a LS (cleaning, painting, experimenting) hopefully before I move next summer.
Wooo hooo!
__________________
79 Cherokee Chief (passed CA smog check Sept 2020)
(Cherokee Build Thread)
11 Nissan Pathfinder Silver Edition 4x4
09 Mazdaspeed3 Grand Touring
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 04-11-2021, 10:00 PM
oregonphil oregonphil is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Oct 17, 2020
Location: Klamath Falls, Oregon
Posts: 69
Sometimes we do get lucky. This gives you breathing room.
__________________
OregonPhil

77 SJ 401
72 Commando 304
07 Toyota Sienna
76 HD FLH
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 04-11-2021, 11:14 PM
goldhammer's Avatar
goldhammer goldhammer is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 08, 2004
Location: Willamette Valley, OR
Posts: 5,064
Hopefully it was a W/T, and had the same transfer case as you have for the diff offset.
__________________
Art
ASE Master Collision Tech
"Beast" - 81 "S" W/T, 85-360, T-18, Lock-rite,wag alloys, 31-10.50 Pro Comp MT's, Warn 8274 in a fabbed bumper/deer strainer(tested and approved)

88 XJ, 3" lift, 31-10.50's, custom bumpers and winch/tow bar mounts, Warn 9500HS, custom sliders/steps, camo paint, & headliner

Member: FSJ Prissy Restoration Assoc.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 04-12-2021, 01:35 AM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 31, 2016
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 4,169
He said it was. I will take some measurements to be sure when I get there. He sent me a pic of the tag and it shows the correct gears so fingers crossed!
__________________
79 Cherokee Chief (passed CA smog check Sept 2020)
(Cherokee Build Thread)
11 Nissan Pathfinder Silver Edition 4x4
09 Mazdaspeed3 Grand Touring
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 04-12-2021, 05:45 PM
backroadin''s Avatar
backroadin' backroadin' is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Aug 11, 2004
Location: Vermont
Posts: 949
Awesome man! Now you can really take your time with the locker.
__________________
"Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads." -- Dr Emmett Brown

"When this baby reaches 88 miles per hour, you're gonna to see some serious sht!"

73 Wagoneer - 4.6L Stroker (yeah baby!!) t176/d300, 3.73's, 33" muds, 4"spring lift, 2" body. Offy dualport w/ Quadrajet, pertronix, flowmaster.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 05-13-2021, 10:45 PM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 31, 2016
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 4,169
Well this really sucks. Picked up my new to me axle today, was all stoked cuz it is complete, spins smoothly, and looks caked in grease but looked great. Got home started measuring.... it does not match. Spring perches are ~6" wider, brakes are about 4" wider. Pumpkin is offset passenger side but it's just to wide. I text the guy back and he says it's from a 77 J10...not Cherokee.

Gear set is correct but now I have a good diff that won't fit in my truck and a diff in my truck that is hashed and it wont be easy to swap over. I guess I will pull them both apart tomorrow and hopefully I can just use the spider/side gears from the J10 axle and get my cherk back on the road.

Any advice? Anyone need any parts from this axle? Brakes? Housing? Axle shafts?
__________________
79 Cherokee Chief (passed CA smog check Sept 2020)
(Cherokee Build Thread)
11 Nissan Pathfinder Silver Edition 4x4
09 Mazdaspeed3 Grand Touring
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 05-14-2021, 02:41 PM
J20 project's Avatar
J20 project J20 project is offline
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Dec 27, 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,480
The spider set will swap right in...

J20
__________________
BP Drivetrain...........

Driveshafts for all Jeeps, Constant velocity rebuilds, Replacement, Repair
775-537-7918

https://www.facebook.com/BPShafts/

Putting this back up. "Someone is gonna have to crawl under the rig"
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 05-14-2021, 03:13 PM
J20 project's Avatar
J20 project J20 project is offline
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Dec 27, 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 2,480
Hey FWIW, hang onto that housing...the J truck 44 is wider than a chero chief...Getting hard to find. I had to build one last year.

Bud
__________________
BP Drivetrain...........

Driveshafts for all Jeeps, Constant velocity rebuilds, Replacement, Repair
775-537-7918

https://www.facebook.com/BPShafts/

Putting this back up. "Someone is gonna have to crawl under the rig"
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 05-14-2021, 11:36 PM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 31, 2016
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 4,169
Alright, started in to both axles.
First, Cherokee Axle Carnage:
When I first opened this axle up when it broke, I found lots of metal grit and chunks of teeth. Here's where they are from:

Notice the cross pin is twisted. That will come into play again in a few minutes.
I expected my ring and pinion to be hashed. The ring has one chunk out of it:

Pinion also had one chunk out of it, too:

I noticed on my pinion has 4.08 and 13 etched on it by hand. You can see that in the yellow circles.
On my Ring, it has 408 stamped on it. BUUUUuuuuttt it also has 46-13 which divides out to 3.54 (I counted the teeth on the ring and it has 46 teeth). So I am not sure what the 408 means but it's not the gear ratio.

I tired my best to get the spring pin out so I could remove the spiders/side gears and I could not that spring pin to budge. I noticed the cross pin had slop in it,
Video, slop in carrier
So my carrier is also toast.

Not really related but the axle bearings are clean and roll nicely.
__________________
79 Cherokee Chief (passed CA smog check Sept 2020)
(Cherokee Build Thread)
11 Nissan Pathfinder Silver Edition 4x4
09 Mazdaspeed3 Grand Touring
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 05-14-2021, 11:57 PM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 31, 2016
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 4,169
Now for the J10 axle, I sprayed it with degreaser and pressure washed it with my pressure washer hooked up to my water heater. It cleaned up nicely.


Tag says it has the correct ration. I also noticed it had the tell tail sign that the oil had ben changed before (that bend we cause when we torque the cover on.

Inside still had oil in it. It was dirty but not super bad.

It also has 46-13 stamped on it. The diff came apart exactly as I expected it to.

Then I called it a night. I started working on my transfer case early in the morning and it was late by the time I got to this point.

My plan for tomorrow is to clean the spare carrier and all it's parts. Then I plan to pull the pinions out of both axles, clean the J10 pinion, then swap them into the Cherokee axle and check back lash and pattern.
__________________
79 Cherokee Chief (passed CA smog check Sept 2020)
(Cherokee Build Thread)
11 Nissan Pathfinder Silver Edition 4x4
09 Mazdaspeed3 Grand Touring
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 05-14-2021, 11:59 PM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 31, 2016
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 4,169
Quote:
Originally Posted by J20 project
Hey FWIW, hang onto that housing...the J truck 44 is wider than a chero chief...Getting hard to find. I had to build one last year.

Bud
I'll probably part this axle out. I don't really have a place to store it and don't want to move it to Idaho with me. Want any parts out of it?
__________________
79 Cherokee Chief (passed CA smog check Sept 2020)
(Cherokee Build Thread)
11 Nissan Pathfinder Silver Edition 4x4
09 Mazdaspeed3 Grand Touring
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 05-17-2021, 12:33 AM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 31, 2016
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 4,169
With the total carnage of my Cherokee carrier, I moved on to plan F, or whatever I am on now. I figured:
Maybe I will pull EVERYTHING out of the J10 axle and swap all of it into my Cherokee axle, check the pattern and back lash and hope it is "good'ish". I put this plan into motion.

I pulled everything out of the J10 axle without drama (pinion, it's bearings, races, and spacers). Then did the same thing on my Cherokee axle.

I guess I am kind of glad it went this way because the bearing closest to the yoke on my Cherokee axle was on it's last leg. It rolls like there is sand in it. There is some damage to that race, too. I set all my Cherokee axle parts off to the side.

I spent the next 3 hours cleaning J10 axle parts and the inside of my axle housing with mineral spirits. What a mess! Everything seems really nice, though! All the bearings roll well, all the races seem good. I did notice one bearing (I don't remember which) on the carrier was able to slide off with just hand force. I am pretty sure that is not good, right? For the record, I did mark the bearing caps for the carrier and those are staying with the axles they came from in the same spot that were in.

Here's all the stuff cleaned up:


So where do I go from here? I am still super intimidated with setting this up. I think, tomorrow, I am going to assemble the carrier and call some more local shops to see if someone can set this up for me. If I hand them all this stuff and a clean/empty axle housing, it shouldn't be much more than a couple hours labor... right?
__________________
79 Cherokee Chief (passed CA smog check Sept 2020)
(Cherokee Build Thread)
11 Nissan Pathfinder Silver Edition 4x4
09 Mazdaspeed3 Grand Touring
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 05-17-2021, 01:24 AM
Heep-J4000's Avatar
Heep-J4000 Heep-J4000 is offline
258 I6
 
Join Date: Feb 09, 2014
Location: Schoorl ,the Nederlands
Posts: 336
If you know a oldtimer or older shop that does this kind of work it's best to go by in person or give them a call.

Most people or modern shops don't want to work with used bearings etc because they think it's not good enough anymore.

Maybe you can find someone that wants to do it for you and you are aloud to watch ,so it's a good learning experience.
__________________
Jeep "because mother nature hates flat roads to"

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=180974

99' Dodge ram 2500 4x4 crew cab 5.9 Cummins ,backup work truck for now
73' Jeep J4000 (named Heep or Desert Dragon) amc 360 V8 converted to LPG with T15/D20 (was my daily work truck for thirteen years and is going to have major overhaul
80' Jeep cj5 350 V8 Chevy/ms420/D300 (a slow ongoing never finished project)

Trucks/car's from the past:
85' Volkswagen caddy mk1 1.6 diesel.
83 Toyota land cruiser BJ42 3.4 diesel.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 05-17-2021, 09:13 AM
SJTD SJTD is offline
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Apr 26, 2012
Location: Lompoc and Sunland, CA
Posts: 1,640
Any sign of the loosish race spinning? Maybe swap the carriers too.

Does the truck pinion have numbers engraved on its end too and if so what are they?
__________________
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 05-17-2021, 11:06 AM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 31, 2016
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 4,169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heep-J4000
If you know a oldtimer or older shop that does this kind of work it's best to go by in person or give them a call.

Most people or modern shops don't want to work with used bearings etc because they think it's not good enough anymore.

Maybe you can find someone that wants to do it for you and you are aloud to watch ,so it's a good learning experience.
Yeah, there just aren't many oldtimer or older shops around in CA anymore. Our state has pretty much run them all out of business.

Really, I would not mind buying new bearings. They are not that expensive. The only reason I was going to re-use them was so I did not have to re-set all the spacers and what not. I have to drive this truck on a 1000 mile road trip next year and it would really suck to kill axle halfway between here and there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SJTD
Any sign of the loosish race spinning? Maybe swap the carriers too.

Does the truck pinion have numbers engraved on its end too and if so what are they?
Yeah, it does look like it spun some. not a ton, but some.

This picture looks worse than it is in front of me.

My Cherokee carrier is damaged too bad to re-use. The cross pin has eaten into the carrier and there is slop in it, now. That, and I cannot get it apart.

They do! This one makes a little more sense to me. It has D+3 (assuming that means Depth is +3) and 904 (which is on both the ring and pinion) which I assume means the same thing as the 408 meant on my Cherokee gears.



You know, now that I write this, I don't think that is a 13 on my Cherokee Pinion... I think it is also a "+3".
__________________
79 Cherokee Chief (passed CA smog check Sept 2020)
(Cherokee Build Thread)
11 Nissan Pathfinder Silver Edition 4x4
09 Mazdaspeed3 Grand Touring
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 05-17-2021, 01:10 PM
babywag's Avatar
babywag babywag is offline
out of order
 
Join Date: Jun 08, 2005
Location: Land of froot loops and cukcoo-nuts, CA
Posts: 9,889
On my 10bolt re-gear one of the carrier bearings had obviously spun.
An old timer recommended I use loctite 648 retaining compound for the new bearing.
He said it was pretty common issue, and he's used the loctite "fix" for many many years without any comebacks/problems.
__________________
Tony
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 05-17-2021, 04:25 PM
SJTD SJTD is offline
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Apr 26, 2012
Location: Lompoc and Sunland, CA
Posts: 1,640
I'm finking you can use those numbers to compute the correct pinion shims. Then you would only have to mess with the diff shims.

I thought the point of using set-up bearings on the diff was that the assumption was that they are all the same or close enough? If so you can replace it with no problem. Or did one use the set-up bearings then compare their thickness to the new ones to compute the correct diff shims?

In any case I don't think using the old bearings assures the shimming will be correct when you put that diff in your housing.
__________________
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 05-17-2021, 06:28 PM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
Administrator
 
Join Date: Oct 31, 2016
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 4,169
Whelp, I chickened out. I brought it to a shop today. As I was looking over all my different parts, I kept picturing me broken down in the middle of nowhere. Since I hosed up my first engine build I figured this could easily have gone the same way.

So I pulled my axle housing out my truck (that was 15 minutes of work ) and brought it over to my side yard where I pressure wash stuff. I am not joking when I say, I am pretty sure this was the dirtiest part I have ever cleaned on my truck. I found gussets in my case I did not know existed. There were places where the road grime was easily (I'm not exaggerating) 1/4 thick. Some places it was so thick, it came off in small sheets.




Did my normal process of
1) spray it with degreaser while I set up
2) hook up pressure washer to hot water heater
3) pressure wash it
4) Scrub with a wire brush and dish soap
5) repeat steps 3 and 4 until it's clean

but this time I also added
6) spray with oven cleaner and let it sit 10 minutes
7) scrub with steel wool.
8) pressure wash

I am super happy with how it came out. During the coarse of scrubbing, there were paint pen markings on the housing so it has probably been re-built before. My wire brushing removed all that. I'll paint it when I get it back from the shop.



Shop said he needs about a week. He is also going to throw in some new bearings. He said he would reuse my old ones but I figure if I am going to pay him 2 hours of labor, I might as well spend the extra $120 for a kit. I was going to buy 5 new tires but I guess I will just get 4 and use the saved money to help offset the cost of the kit.

My wife is going to be
__________________
79 Cherokee Chief (passed CA smog check Sept 2020)
(Cherokee Build Thread)
11 Nissan Pathfinder Silver Edition 4x4
09 Mazdaspeed3 Grand Touring
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Moab Build List sealegs Moab 5 10-05-2012 08:32 PM
Model 20 Limited Slip Locked and Loaded General FSJ Tech 10 12-26-2006 10:38 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner