International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tire Kickin' > General FSJ Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-04-2007, 07:03 AM
dwrestle's Avatar
dwrestle dwrestle is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 09, 2005
Location: Brumley, MO
Posts: 127
Are Jeeps really better??

What I mean is why are Jeeps the best offroad vehicles? Is it wheelbase, is it 4x4 systems(T-cases), does Jeep know something the rest don't since they were the first 4 wheel drives, or is it just that they were first so that has just gave them a reputation that others can't measure up to.

I am talking Jeeps in general here, not just FSJ's. I belive that Jeep is the best, but I see people talking about doing things like putting a Chevy frame under a Jeep, and I wonder why would you do that? Wouldn't you end up with an inferior and even more limited frame that you began with? I can understand different engines, but isn't the frame(or lackthereof) what makes the Jeep a Jeep. Just to clarify I am talking stock to slightly modified Jeeps.
__________________
Darrick 1983 Cherokee Laredo wide track AMC 360 904 transmission Selc Trac.
Modifications: 4 BBL Edelbrock on stock intake, Shift Kit in new transmission, single 2 1/4 inch exhaust pipe 24 inch glass pack, no cat. Wish list: To sell and get a 4x4 pickup with a manual tranny, or trade for said truck of any make but preferably a J-Truck.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-04-2007, 08:44 AM
jeepfan93's Avatar
jeepfan93 jeepfan93 is offline
Bleedin' Gasoline
 
Join Date: Feb 07, 2006
Location: machester, New Jersey
Posts: 2,100
Well if you lloka t the history of Jeep and all they've done, you can understand why. Now jeep didn't invent 4WD, but they certainly have perfected it. If you look at other manufacturer's they more or less have copied what Jeep has been doing for 60+ years. Now that doesn't mean Jeep is the end all be all for 4WD,we swap in heavier duty axles and transfer cases for highly modified vehicles, rockcrawling etc. But as you stated for stock to silghtly modified, meaning bolt on performance, I believe has gotten the right combo of frame strength, off road capability, and on road performance.
__________________
Jeeps are Jeeps, keep Jeepin
>It's not about the ten hour drive to get the rust bucket jeep, it's about where your your going when it's done
87GW 99 Durango 5.2 drivetrain, SOA 35in Falken Wildpeak. MT rims
1997 Ram 1500 5.2 33in Falken Rocky Mounts for haulin
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-04-2007, 10:43 AM
MrFurious MrFurious is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: May 05, 2005
Location: Lima, Ohio
Posts: 497
I know I'll probably catch some flack for this, but I still feel the early ford Bronco's (1966-1977) make the best off-road rigs. Baby Jeeps (excluding the CJ-8 Scrambler) are great for the real tight stuff, but their short wheelbase holds them back when it comes to hill climbing. XJ's and ZJ's solved the wheelbase problem, but the drivetrain needs a lot of modification to make it a truly reliable off-roader. FSJ's have decent drivetrains, but they're a little big for the tight stuff and very heavy.

The early Bronco's pretty much had a very capable combination right from the factory. You had good V8 engines in the 289 and 302, suitable 3-speed auto or manual transmissions, a Dana 20 all-gear transfer case, a Dana 44 front axle on later models (66-72 models used a Dana 30 front axle), and a Ford 9" axle out back. The wheelbase and track width is compact enough to work very well in the tight stuff, yet is long and wide enough to offer good stability at extreme angles.

The only real downside to the early Bronco's is that they rust out just as bad as baby Jeeps.
__________________
God, Guns, & Jeeps....what else is there?
Jim B.
1979 CJ-5
304 V8 - T150 - Dana 20
D30/D44 Wide-Trac axles w/4.10 gears
Ox Locker in rear & rollin on 35's
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-04-2007, 10:57 AM
Desert Beast's Avatar
Desert Beast Desert Beast is offline
360 AMC
 
Join Date: Oct 05, 2002
Location: Brighton CO
Posts: 3,237
jeeps the best? who knows.

why is it that people serious about wheeling usually end up swapping in ford or chevy parts (engines, axles, tcases, trans)?

only thing left in my "jeep" is the frame. which i fully boxed cuz it wasnt good enough from the factory.

i dont think anything is the best. i think that each person builds what they need for their style of wheeling. and thats the best to them. sometimes w/ jeep parts and sometimes w/o them.
__________________
If it aint broke, fix it 'till it is.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-04-2007, 11:07 AM
TexTJ209's Avatar
TexTJ209 TexTJ209 is offline
FSJ Maniac
 
Join Date: Oct 06, 2005
Location: Waco, Tx
Posts: 2,558
CJs, YJs, TJs, FSJs, EBs, Toyotas, etc. all work about the same once you swap one-ton truck parts in.

Like whats been said already, its mostly just personal preference in the end.




But yes, Jeeps are the best.
__________________
'10 Chevy Silverado 5.3L - The DD.
'81 Jeep CJ-7 Laredo
'73 Jeep J2000 - On the perpetual backburner.
Texas A&M Offroad
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-04-2007, 11:08 AM
rustywag's Avatar
rustywag rustywag is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Jul 23, 2002
Location: Harford County, MD
Posts: 380
The true key to off-road performance is traction period. The way to get is through proper tires and suspension compliance. The early SWB jeeps had such a weak frame design that it acually improved off highway performance due to its flexiness. No hardcore off road SWB jeeps are true jeeps anymore anyway as they all have swapped in axles and drivetrains from other manufacturers. Jeep certainly did a great job with the original design of the CJ series but the fact that no other manufacturer made something of a similar size is what established jeeps off road reputation. On a trail of sufficient width a Bronco, Blazer, or Ramcharger all have heavy duty components and V8 power that the CJ series doesn't so the big 3's rigs will last longer before breaking. If you add FSJ's to the list and compare them to the other big 3's of similar size and vintage you will find that all are similarly capable. The limiting factor off-road for most of us will usually be traction. This can be improved upon with lift, tires & lockers added to any vehicle. Jeep as a brand has been sucessful by producing decent vehicles in a catagory where no one else competes nobody else made a SWB 4WD rig in signifigant numbers to compete so CJ series vehicles win by default. Again, when looking at FSJ's nobody else made a 4-door station wagon with 4WD except the Suburban which is considerably larger than an FSJ. Therefore FSJ's also win by default. The design failures of all jeeps (2 piece axles, BBD carb's, FSJ vacuum nightmares, etc) shouild have driven Jeep out of business (oops they did) Jeeps are considered more capable than the competition largely because the didn'y have any competition. Note I'm speaking of the era prior to the demise of AMC and the FSJ's (late '80's) Now, many manufacturers make vhicles of similar size with capabilities that directly challenge the SWB Wrangler. I invite anyone that thinks that the Wrangler is King of all things off road to try out an FJ Cruiser form Toyota (I have) and you will see that Jeep is no longer the automatic off road winner.
__________________
99 Grand Cherokee 4.7 2" lift 32" BFG M/T's "everything works and it gets good mileage" - But its Not an FSJ
97 Ram 1500 4X4
78 CJ7 258 Clifford cam, intake, Holley 390 4.0 Head/T-176/D-300 4" superlift & 33's
01 Tahoe for the Wife (soon to be my DD)
79 Dodge Lil Red Express
11 JK Rusty's lift and 35's (Wifes new ride)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-04-2007, 11:23 AM
91G-Dub's Avatar
91G-Dub 91G-Dub is offline
FSJ Maniac
 
Join Date: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Magnolia, South Jersey (the 51st state)
Posts: 2,702
4WD vehicles are kind of like ice cream in my opinion.
Chocolate, vanilla and strawberry, a flavor for everyone.
Jeeps really do and have over the years covered the bases pretty well by offering so many different models.
__________________
91G-Dub = Bill Houston

1979/1980 J-10 Junkyard Dog 258 4 speed D44 front AMC 20 rear 3.31 Lincoln Locker Status Running
1991 Grand Wagoneer Gray Ghost (bone stock) STATUS Gone but not forgotten

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."

Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-04-2007, 11:31 AM
Bill USN-1 Bill USN-1 is offline
258 I6
 
Join Date: Nov 11, 2006
Location: Oak Harbor, Wa
Posts: 360
Lest we forget that even the proud old Bronco was designed specifically to compete with the IH Scout!!!
Chevy soon followed with the Blazer.
And the poor old farmer mentality and the big city unions drove the light line IH out to pasture...so to speak.

And though no one mentioned it above...how many "upgrade" the jeep with the stock Scout axles?
So I would say that pound for pound and stock components all counted..the IH Scout would have to rank up there for toughness.

Dump truck motor 4/8 (even used the AMC 6 during the fuel crisis)
D20 or D300 TC
Manual or 727 auto
D44 axles F/R

I would also place the old toy and the EB ahead of most jeeps.

I think they finally started catching on with the Rubicon!
__________________
Bill USN-1
Fuel Injection Moderator at BinderPlanet
Hamilton Fuel Injection
75 scout XLC 345/727/JPD300/3.73's/33's/4wdisc/hydroboost/EFI/OBA/OBW
1977 Innocenti 1001 (Italian Mini)EFI 1275/DIS
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-04-2007, 01:41 PM
yankeedog yankeedog is offline
Bleedin' Gasoline
 
Join Date: Mar 14, 2007
Location: long island new york
Posts: 1,621
full frames .solid axles. cast iron engines.tolerant of abuse .hard to really break and not quick to wear out.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-04-2007, 02:12 PM
Wagabond's Avatar
Wagabond Wagabond is offline
Gear Head
 
Join Date: Dec 24, 2006
Location: Surprise! AZ.
Posts: 683
Land Rovers might be the best stock off roaders ever. But nobody is going anywhere if it's time for the biannual engine replacement. So jeeps take it because they will run more than two weeks straight. Old Broncs and scouts are cool too though.
__________________
Americans: We're fat because we have food.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-04-2007, 03:19 PM
TexTJ209's Avatar
TexTJ209 TexTJ209 is offline
FSJ Maniac
 
Join Date: Oct 06, 2005
Location: Waco, Tx
Posts: 2,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagabond
Land Rovers might be the best stock off roaders ever. But nobody is going anywhere if it's time for the biannual engine replacement. So jeeps take it because they will run more than two weeks straight. Old Broncs and scouts are cool too though.

Plus the fact that without Jeeps there wouldn't be Land Rovers.
__________________
'10 Chevy Silverado 5.3L - The DD.
'81 Jeep CJ-7 Laredo
'73 Jeep J2000 - On the perpetual backburner.
Texas A&M Offroad
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-04-2007, 03:35 PM
grand_wag_85's Avatar
grand_wag_85 grand_wag_85 is offline
Murphy's Law Poster Child
 
Join Date: Dec 03, 2003
Posts: 10,713
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexTJ209
Plus the fact that without Jeeps there wouldn't be Land Rovers.
And not many people know that.
__________________
You know it's bad when your car's on the EPA's 10 most wanted list!

'82 J10
'88 GW
'77 J10 Golden Eagle 401


Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-04-2007, 04:01 PM
mdill's Avatar
mdill mdill is offline
Gone. Not Forgotten.
 
Join Date: Nov 22, 2000
Location: Richfield MN
Posts: 7,076
Land rover copied Jeep (Attempt to keep some of the aircraft workers busy doing something after WWII)

Jeep led the way for a lot of years in building off road capable rigs.

First factory mass produced 4X4(s) for the civilian market

Utility
Family Wagon
Pickup

First Upscale SUV (Super Wagoneer) (196?)

First factory independent front end in a 4X4 (1963)

Don't think they have done much lately to either lead or increasse the ability offroad thier rigs.

The utility, (CJ -> Wrangler) has grown up into a over weight, over sized over priced peice of plastic wrapped something.

The Wagon has grown up to concure mall speed bumps and high center everywhere else.

The Pickup is gone.

So what has Jeep done lately that is not avalible from 13 other manufactures, not much IMHO.

Jeep is gone, while they did have some of the best forward looking ideas (and poor build quality) in their time, they are just another tin/plastic pusher now.

Mike D.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-04-2007, 04:50 PM
dwrestle's Avatar
dwrestle dwrestle is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 09, 2005
Location: Brumley, MO
Posts: 127
Well every time they come out with a new rig it wins 4x4 of the year(I don't expect the Compass/Patriot to win). The Wrangler still spanks the FJ Cruiser off road. Early Broncos almost looked like they had wheelskirts on them. IH Scouts are pretty cool though. The best part about Land Rovers is the Buick V8. Toyota'a are alright I guess, I would rather have a Nissan.
__________________
Darrick 1983 Cherokee Laredo wide track AMC 360 904 transmission Selc Trac.
Modifications: 4 BBL Edelbrock on stock intake, Shift Kit in new transmission, single 2 1/4 inch exhaust pipe 24 inch glass pack, no cat. Wish list: To sell and get a 4x4 pickup with a manual tranny, or trade for said truck of any make but preferably a J-Truck.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-04-2007, 05:10 PM
Wagabond's Avatar
Wagabond Wagabond is offline
Gear Head
 
Join Date: Dec 24, 2006
Location: Surprise! AZ.
Posts: 683
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwrestle
The best part about Land Rovers is the Buick V8.

That's their weak link here in the SW at least. They do not take heat well.
__________________
Americans: We're fat because we have food.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-04-2007, 05:10 PM
drlocke's Avatar
drlocke drlocke is offline
Roadside Mechanic
 
Join Date: Dec 29, 2003
Location: Western MA
Posts: 9,725
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexTJ209
CJs, YJs, TJs, FSJs, EBs, Toyotas, etc. all work about the same once you swap one-ton truck parts in.

Like whats been said already, its mostly just personal preference in the end.
But yes, Jeeps are the best.

You had a good trend before the last sentence. J/K; I prefer Jeep, but I guess I'm laying myself wide open for being a snob.

This all comes down to taste and snobbery. I've accumulated the FC-170 and the W-O truck strictly circumstantially. The Wag I got simply because a "gentleman" farmer Jew I worked for as a kid back in the early '70s had one almost exactly like it, and I had admired it, and always since had wanted one.

All a matter of taste.

All a matter of taste; I see the occasional posting here about how an SJ "rescued" a F*rd. I can also suppose that on the F*rd forums there are some of their product rescuing FSFs.

Embrace it.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-04-2007, 05:13 PM
Mikel's Avatar
Mikel Mikel is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 09, 2000
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 6,330
Old Series I-III Land Rovers are no rockcrawlers. They are simple, robust vehicles that can give many years of service at a farm, with minimum (but constant) care.

Peter Matusov wrote one time about going to the local Land Rover outings with his very modestly modified 79 Cherokee Chief, and how it just didn't seem fair

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagabond
Land Rovers might be the best stock off roaders ever. But nobody is going anywhere if it's time for the biannual engine replacement. So jeeps take it because they will run more than two weeks straight. Old Broncs and scouts are cool too though.
__________________
1969 M715 6x6
1963 J300 Swivel frame
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-04-2007, 05:26 PM
Wagabond's Avatar
Wagabond Wagabond is offline
Gear Head
 
Join Date: Dec 24, 2006
Location: Surprise! AZ.
Posts: 683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikel
Old Series I-III Land Rovers are no rockcrawlers. They are simple, robust vehicles that can give many years of service at a farm, with minimum (but constant) care.

Peter Matusov wrote one time about going to the local Land Rover outings with his very modestly modified 79 Cherokee Chief, and how it just didn't seem fair

Whats worse is that my Waggy has the equivalent of 6 Disco motors worth of mileage, gets better MPG with a leaky Motorcrap and will drag a Disco down the street if we chained them up. I don't count rockcrawling, they have about as much in common with street rigs as a Nextel cup car has with a regular Monte Carlo.
__________________
Americans: We're fat because we have food.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-04-2007, 06:28 PM
Mikel's Avatar
Mikel Mikel is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 09, 2000
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 6,330
Also, I've always wondered about the vaunted coil suspension in the Range Rovers and Defenders. Radius arm setups must be the least flexy coil suspensions ever invented.
__________________
1969 M715 6x6
1963 J300 Swivel frame
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-04-2007, 07:02 PM
Wagabond's Avatar
Wagabond Wagabond is offline
Gear Head
 
Join Date: Dec 24, 2006
Location: Surprise! AZ.
Posts: 683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikel
Also, I've always wondered about the vaunted coil suspension in the Range Rovers and Defenders. Radius arm setups must be the least flexy coil suspensions ever invented.

Made more for the G5 than for driving up waterfalls. Excellent suspensions, crap engines.
__________________
Americans: We're fat because we have food.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner