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Old 07-27-2021, 06:19 PM
FarmWagoneer FarmWagoneer is offline
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70 wagoneer drive train worth rebuild?

I'm considering buying a 70 wagoneer with a 350 and automatic transmission but the problem is the engine is seized from sitting. I'm assuming if it sat that long maybe the transmission and transfer case might not be to happy either. If it's as rot free as he says it is it's worth the 1000 bucks he's asking but then what? I don't think I have the technical knowledge for a whole drive train swap and since I'm only 30 I have no idea how great it was new. So what do you guys think? What's valuable to rebuild in it? How interchangeable are parts and what not? Thanks for the info
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Old 07-28-2021, 09:03 AM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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What do you want from the Wagoneer? These vehicles had excellent drive trains for their day, and there's nothing really wrong with it the way it is. In current form, it could be reliable if you put the effort into refurb, and it will go a surprising number of places. Inadequate brakes is probably the most obvious issue to modern drivers.

Most frozen engines can be freed. Lots about this on the internet. No reason to expect a problem with the rest of the drive train from sitting, unless full of water. If you can't free the 350, you could look around for another 350, or use it as a core for a reman engine.

Mechanical stuff is easy. Body work (esp. rust repair) is hard. Check the interior floors.

Interchange? You mean with other Wagoneers? The 350 is a Buick passenger car engine. The transmission is a passenger car transmission. The rest of the stuff is Jeep.

If you don't care about the appearance of the Wagoneer, a WJ Grand Cherokee is a reasonable substitute. Lots of those around (1999-2004), and more modern.
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Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk

Last edited by tgreese : 07-28-2021 at 09:09 AM.
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Old 07-28-2021, 09:03 AM
inkedmonkey inkedmonkey is offline
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The engine could be locked up due to a bunch of things. I wouldn't assume the other components are bad. I have unstuck a few engines and then they ran fine for years.
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Old 07-28-2021, 02:05 PM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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I say chuck the drive train and do a junkyard 5.3 LS and a 4L60/4L80. It will end up costing about the same but you end up with more power, a lighter drivetrain that is WAYYYyyy more reliable, 4 forward speeds (instead of 3), and better MPG.
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  #5  
Old 07-29-2021, 04:14 PM
FarmWagoneer FarmWagoneer is offline
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Thanks for the responses guys. I'm going to buy it as long as it is as solid as he says. My 81 was a nightmare with rust issues but worth it. I've freed up old tractor engines with no problems before but didn't think the 350 would be as forgiving. Also I'm assuming a chevy 350 won't be the same as the buick? I just want another wagoneer to cruise around in and do light off roading. What can I say, I'm hooked now and anything else won't do. I'll have my 81 patched up rust bucket for these New York winters and a hopefully solid 70 wagon for summer exploration
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  #6  
Old 07-29-2021, 05:06 PM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Right, not the same. No more compatible than a Ford engine would be.
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Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
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  #7  
Old 07-29-2021, 05:31 PM
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I like the Buick 350. Funny how much they look like the AMC V-8. They are also easy to rebuild with plenty of parts available.
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Old 07-29-2021, 07:20 PM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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The Buick valve covers are cool. And the engines are red, which I like better than the AMC blue.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
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  #9  
Old 07-29-2021, 11:48 PM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgreese
..And the engines are red, which I like better than the AMC blue.
LIES!! Lies lies lies!!! The AMC blue is much better!! It also adds 3 hp and 1 mpg!
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  #10  
Old 07-31-2021, 03:13 PM
FarmWagoneer FarmWagoneer is offline
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Well I am now the proud owner of 1970 wagoneer as well. Engine is definitely seized and there is golf ball sized hole in the roof from it rotting out but it is solid. I noticed professionally installed auxiliary tank and I think an original dealership spare tire cover in the rear. Too bad some people tried to steal it and put dents in the quarter panel and tailgate and they stole the radiator but oh well.
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Old 07-31-2021, 08:32 PM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Wooo hoooo!!! Pics please!!
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  #12  
Old 08-01-2021, 07:30 AM
FarmWagoneer FarmWagoneer is offline
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I'm trying to figure that bit out. I only have a phone so I guess Flickr won't work.
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  #13  
Old 08-01-2021, 07:48 AM
FarmWagoneer FarmWagoneer is offline
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https://flic.kr/p/2meCsp7
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  #14  
Old 08-01-2021, 07:50 AM
FarmWagoneer FarmWagoneer is offline
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https://flic.kr/p/2meF6rA
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  #15  
Old 08-01-2021, 07:54 AM
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backroadin' backroadin' is offline
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Awesome! Those pre-73 rigs are a slightly different animal then the 81 you have - drivetrain and suspension being some of the main differences. Rear springs are post-mount, but 52" chevvy springs and the proper bushings will work - also BJ's sells a lift kit for them. Front axle is closed knuckle (should be d27 or d30), rear is two-piece axle shafts (d44 i believe). 5 lug axles, and older (early 90's and earlier) ford fullsize rims are the same (large center hole). Drum brakes all around. Nothing that can't be swapped out. You can add power brake booster and power steering pump if it doesn't have those. Points ignition can be swapped out for a pertronix kit for easy electric ignition.
Tranny should have a BOP (buick/olds/pontiac) bolt pattern/ bellhousing and you can get adapter plates to swap in GM, jeep, ford engines. I would think another buick 350 would bolt in without issue, but I'm not 100% on that. I do not believe any other jeep engine will bolt to that tranny without adapters. There is plenty of info on the older rigs and swapping stuff into / out of them here on this site. For lifts, search "post mount".
Alot of parts places only list stuff going back to '74. That's when jeep changed alot of stuff on the fsj's. Some stuf will still fit and some won't, and some can be made to. You'll have to do your homework and not just take the parts counter guy's word for it when he says "it doesn't exist."
Can't wait to see some pics - good luck with the project. At the very least, you'll come away with even more knowledge of these old jeeps. At best, you'll have a wicked cool ride!!
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73 Wagoneer - 4.6L Stroker (yeah baby!!) t176/d300, 3.73's, 33" muds, 4"spring lift, 2" body. Offy dualport w/ Quadrajet, pertronix, flowmaster.
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Old 08-01-2021, 08:10 AM
FarmWagoneer FarmWagoneer is offline
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Thanks backroadin that's very helpful. Did the links not work? Something for you older guys to have a laugh at. I spent 15 minutes looking for an interior hood latch. Also what is the jeep bag for on the inner fender? Can't wait to get this thing home and start wrenching. Not that the 81 doesn't need a million things but a new project is always good
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  #17  
Old 08-01-2021, 08:15 AM
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backroadin' backroadin' is offline
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Cool - just saw the pics. Is that factory a/c I see in the interior shot?
If you don't like the grille, you can swap any other fsj grill on. The headlight bezels are the same as on the razor grill, and the side pieces will bolt on around a razor as well, maybe others too. That grill and side pieces were only used on 70-73 wagoneers. I only bring that up cause I didn't care for mine and I swapped it out. Pretty much all the body panels were the same throughout the entire wagoneer lifespan. Glass too - including windshields. Try to find a good glass guy that deals with classic stuff if you ever need a windshield - you can't use urethane sealer on these old rigs with rubber gaskets. Probably already know that since you have an '81. Front doors and glass are the same between trucks and wagons too.
Whatever you take off or don't want, list it for sale. Especially the little stuff - you'd be surprised what people might be looking for.
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"Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads." -- Dr Emmett Brown

"When this baby reaches 88 miles per hour, you're gonna to see some serious sht!"

73 Wagoneer - 4.6L Stroker (yeah baby!!) t176/d300, 3.73's, 33" muds, 4"spring lift, 2" body. Offy dualport w/ Quadrajet, pertronix, flowmaster.
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Old 08-01-2021, 08:17 AM
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backroadin' backroadin' is offline
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That bag is the washer fluid resivoir. Old school tech!!
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"Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads." -- Dr Emmett Brown

"When this baby reaches 88 miles per hour, you're gonna to see some serious sht!"

73 Wagoneer - 4.6L Stroker (yeah baby!!) t176/d300, 3.73's, 33" muds, 4"spring lift, 2" body. Offy dualport w/ Quadrajet, pertronix, flowmaster.
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  #19  
Old 08-01-2021, 08:22 AM
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backroadin' backroadin' is offline
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Lol! Nothing to laugh at, but plenty to smile about!! It's good to see these old rigs getting new life and a new generation having interest in them. Keeps the whole hobby going.

There's always the wanted section here for stuff you can't find. (Took me a minute to get the hood latch........... )
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"Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads." -- Dr Emmett Brown

"When this baby reaches 88 miles per hour, you're gonna to see some serious sht!"

73 Wagoneer - 4.6L Stroker (yeah baby!!) t176/d300, 3.73's, 33" muds, 4"spring lift, 2" body. Offy dualport w/ Quadrajet, pertronix, flowmaster.
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  #20  
Old 08-01-2021, 09:20 AM
FarmWagoneer FarmWagoneer is offline
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Yep factory ac and I think dealership installed auxiliary tank? I don't know, definitely more professional looking with a switch between the door and driver's seat. This thing is a gem for being in New York and spent the majority of it's life in Oregon, then got parked in a garage with a leaky roof which in turn rusted a whole in the roof of the wagon. I'm not quite sure how to fix the right way and at an affordable budget. My 81 was such a rust bucket the idea was learn to mig weld a bit and throw floors into it and fix the frame, it doesn't have to be pretty it's a Jeep. But this 70 wagoneer is so much better and I don't want to butcher it. Honestly I would sacrifice the 81 for parts if I didn't have so much money and time into it
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