Valve stem seals

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  • gophman
    232 I6
    • Mar 05, 2015
    • 228

    Valve stem seals

    I replaced my valve stem seals as i was getting a large plume of blue smoke on startup, i replaced them with the white nylon ones as per the felpro instructions (91 gw) but the nylon ones were a lot larger (the originals were black rubberish and were a push fit onto the valve stem boss) and ever since my oil consumption has skyrocketed to about a quart per 150 miles as opposed to about 600 or so previously. so i replaced the nylon ones with the felpro rubber ones to see how i get on and when i removed the nylon ones the underneath was full of oil all over the valve stem which explans why i was using so much oil. Is the any other valve stem seals available? these seem to measure about 1/2 an inch internal diameter roughly measured with a ruler?
  • SJTD
    304 AMC
    • Apr 26, 2012
    • 1945

    #2
    There was a recent post about the Fel Pro valves seals having a too big I.D.

    I think he used the umbrella type.
    Sic friatur crustulum

    '84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.

    Comment

    • Ristow
      • Jan 20, 2006
      • 17292

      #3
      the white ones are umbrella seals,they do not "seal" at all actually. the black rubber ones do seal,but are cheap and cobby. real positive seals need machined guides to fit.
      Originally posted by Hankrod
      Ristows right.................again,


      Originally posted by Fasts79Chief
      ... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.


      Originally posted by Fasts79Chief
      I LOVE how Ristow has stolen my comment about him ... "Quoted" it ... and made himself famous for being an ***hole to people. Hahahahahahahahahha!

      It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting...and knitting...and knitting...and knitting...

      Comment

      • gophman
        232 I6
        • Mar 05, 2015
        • 228

        #4
        Yes but, the seals I took out are more of a positive type seal with ribs on the inside of the stem hole leading me to believe these seals are positive not umbrella like the felpro ones.

        Last edited by gophman; 09-27-2015, 02:06 PM.

        Comment

        • gophman
          232 I6
          • Mar 05, 2015
          • 228

          #5
          Sorry can't seem to upload photos.

          Comment

          • Ristow
            • Jan 20, 2006
            • 17292

            #6
            yeah,i know. you had the push on rubber seals. they are a positive seal,but a cheap one.
            Originally posted by Hankrod
            Ristows right.................again,


            Originally posted by Fasts79Chief
            ... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.


            Originally posted by Fasts79Chief
            I LOVE how Ristow has stolen my comment about him ... "Quoted" it ... and made himself famous for being an ***hole to people. Hahahahahahahahahha!

            It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting...and knitting...and knitting...and knitting...

            Comment

            • FSJunkie
              The Nigel Tufnel of the FSJ world.
              • Jan 09, 2011
              • 4040

              #7
              YES!!!! I know exactly what you are talking about! I just went through this on my engine! I put those white hard nylon Fel-Pro guide seals on my engine and it burned oil like crazy. I swapped them out for umbrella seals that fit tightly to the valve stem and all oil burning stopped.

              DO NOT USE THE FEL-PRO SEALS!!!!

              The hard nylon Fel-pro seals are NOT a positive seal. They are an "umbrella" seal that is *supposed* to jam tightly onto the valve stem to keep oil from running down the stem and into the guide. They ride up and down with the valve and do not contact the guide at all. The internal ribs are just for reinforcement. Nor are they supposed to sit on the guide. They MUST jam onto the valve stem and stay put to do their job.

              Positive seals clamp onto the guide and the valve slides through them so the guide has to be specially machined to take a positive seal. No AMC used positive seals from the factory.

              Umbrella seals work just fine if they're the right size, but the Fel-Pro seals for these engine are NOT the right size. They are too big and do not jam tightly onto the valve as they should so oil is able to run down past them. You need an umbrella seal that fits tightly to the valve stem.

              I got a different hard nylon seal from my machine shop. He had a box of them on the shelf. They're exactly like the Fel-pro seals but they fit tightly on the valve. You need to find something similar: an umbrella seal that fits tightly on the valve. They can be either rubber or nylon, either works.

              My thread. We need to make this a sticky or something:

              This is for everybody with an AMC 232 or 258 inline-6, but it's good for everyone to note. I recently rebuilt a 232 and it burned oil afterwards. It was a brand new engine that fouled spark plugs every 3000 miles and made a huge cloud of blue smoke every time it started. Turns out the new Fel-Pro part # SS 70530 valve
              Last edited by FSJunkie; 09-27-2015, 08:51 PM.
              '72 Jeep Wagoneer Custom, 360 V8

              I love how arguements end as soon as Ristow comments. Ristow is right...again.

              Comment

              • gophman
                232 I6
                • Mar 05, 2015
                • 228

                #8
                Thanks for the info! What I have done is measured the small positive seal I removed and have found comp cams ones with .500 I'd to stem boss that is within a few thou of the one i removed i will let you know how i get on.

                Comment

                • gophman
                  232 I6
                  • Mar 05, 2015
                  • 228

                  #9
                  Ok Well I fitted the rubber felpro ones to verify that it was definitely the seals, you would not believe the amount of oil trapped under the intake seals! Literally poured out and i have never seen such badly fouled plugs in my life! It will take a run to burn off all the oil in the ports/valves/exhaust but it's not smoking at the moment!

                  Comment

                  • FSJunkie
                    The Nigel Tufnel of the FSJ world.
                    • Jan 09, 2011
                    • 4040

                    #10
                    I remember that feeling. Glad you fixed it.

                    I didn't know this problem extended to the V8's. My seal experience was on an AMC 232 six, for which Fel-pro lists the same seals being used on all 1964-1988 AMC sixes.

                    Fel-Pro lists a different part number for the V8's, but it's the same style of seal and apparently is also too large. Those list for all 1973-1991 AMC V8's, which directly hits the majority of people on this forum.

                    Watch out, folks. Time to send a nastygram to Fel-Pro.
                    Last edited by FSJunkie; 09-28-2015, 01:19 PM.
                    '72 Jeep Wagoneer Custom, 360 V8

                    I love how arguements end as soon as Ristow comments. Ristow is right...again.

                    Comment

                    • Ristow
                      • Jan 20, 2006
                      • 17292

                      #11
                      pretty sure the seals are the same for the 6 and 8's.

                      i quit buying fel pro a long time ago. i like victor reinz.
                      Originally posted by Hankrod
                      Ristows right.................again,


                      Originally posted by Fasts79Chief
                      ... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.


                      Originally posted by Fasts79Chief
                      I LOVE how Ristow has stolen my comment about him ... "Quoted" it ... and made himself famous for being an ***hole to people. Hahahahahahahahahha!

                      It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting...and knitting...and knitting...and knitting...

                      Comment

                      • FSJunkie
                        The Nigel Tufnel of the FSJ world.
                        • Jan 09, 2011
                        • 4040

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Ristow
                        pretty sure the seals are the same for the 6 and 8's.
                        Maybe pre-1973, but Fel-pro shows different ones for post-1973, for whatever that's worth.
                        '72 Jeep Wagoneer Custom, 360 V8

                        I love how arguements end as soon as Ristow comments. Ristow is right...again.

                        Comment

                        • Ristow
                          • Jan 20, 2006
                          • 17292

                          #13
                          must be then different then. surprising,that era like to use the same parts across the board.
                          Originally posted by Hankrod
                          Ristows right.................again,


                          Originally posted by Fasts79Chief
                          ... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.


                          Originally posted by Fasts79Chief
                          I LOVE how Ristow has stolen my comment about him ... "Quoted" it ... and made himself famous for being an ***hole to people. Hahahahahahahahahha!

                          It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting...and knitting...and knitting...and knitting...

                          Comment

                          • stonybrookpictures
                            232 I6
                            • Nov 30, 2020
                            • 77

                            #14
                            Goos write up on Valve seals

                            Valve stem seals play a critical role in controlling valve lubrication as well as oil consumption. If the seals do not fit properly or are not installed correctly, the guides may be either starved for lubrication or flooded with oil. Either way, the engine is going to have problems – and you’re going to have
                            Providence RI
                            1979 Wagoneer 6" Lift, 35" tires. AMC 401.

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