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  #1  
Old 10-06-2021, 07:04 PM
J20DAN J20DAN is offline
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Join Date: May 12, 2002
Location: Elkton, MD
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So looks like my Son is getting the '67 Gladiator

Will be making a decision by next week on the Gladiator he was checking out. This has a lot of different stuff than my '79 J20 so a few questions:

1) The brakes are totally shot and will need to be replaced, lines, all..... I am assuming a nice set of front disks would be a good idea?
2) Brakes - currently manual - how hard is it to find the correct booster and pedal for power? Not sure what years are the same.
3) Manual steering, over 100K miles so probably a lot of play. How hard is it to find decent used power steering box and associated parts - What years, possibly find parts truck?
4) 2bbl carb. It is a 327 AMC so not much other than finding a stock CI 4bbl manifold for it. I also assume these are hard to find as well.

Thanks for the input,
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Old 10-07-2021, 09:16 AM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Location: Medford MA USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J20DAN
Will be making a decision by next week on the Gladiator he was checking out. This has a lot of different stuff than my '79 J20 so a few questions:

1) The brakes are totally shot and will need to be replaced, lines, all..... I am assuming a nice set of front disks would be a good idea?
2) Brakes - currently manual - how hard is it to find the correct booster and pedal for power? Not sure what years are the same.
3) Manual steering, over 100K miles so probably a lot of play. How hard is it to find decent used power steering box and associated parts - What years, possibly find parts truck?
4) 2bbl carb. It is a 327 AMC so not much other than finding a stock CI 4bbl manifold for it. I also assume these are hard to find as well.

Thanks for the input,
Check out the "J-truck paradise" thread from Bob Barry. He goes over a well-preserved 327 J-truck thoroughly.

Suggest that parts availability for this truck will be half as good or twice as bad as for your J20.

Regarding front disks, all the Jeep closed-knuckle front axles are the same in this respect. There are plenty of articles online that convert the early CJ axles, and the closed knuckle 44 is the same. The closed-knuckle axles have their issues, and today you might convert to a later open-knuckle J10 axle that already has disks. Lots fo discussion of this if you search.

I expect you will have to figure out the brake booster. There are hot rod boosters that are "universal" or you could look at the junkyard for suitable parts. Finding the exact factory parts for power brakes seems difficult to impossible.

Likely this Jeep has Ross steering, which isn't great compared to the later Saginaw system. Not durable, lack of service parts, and no easy upgrade to power. A few owners of CJs with Ross steering have converted to power using a power cylinder http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index...-winch.149115/ This should lead to a very few other examples of such conversions.

The usual conversion in CJs is complete replacement with a power saginaw gear mounted on a newly-fabricated bracket, welded to the frame. Lots of discussion of that on that site too.

I recall there was a 4V manifold for AMC passenger cars. In one of his books, Dick Datson shows how to adapt a later AMC manifold to the 327 using custom-machined adapter plates. The port spacing is the same but the 327 valley is wider. I have posted these pages before, and I have the book somewhere if that's important to you.
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Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk

Last edited by tgreese : 10-07-2021 at 09:36 AM.
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  #3  
Old 10-07-2021, 10:40 AM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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You are aware there is a '62-73 J-series parts book here? https://oljeep.com/edge_parts_man.html This may help you in determining what steering this truck has, and whether the power brakes are the same as later models. It can also be very useful in finding obscure parts - look up the Jeep part number and search online for that plus keywords like "Jeep" and the type of part it is.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
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Old 10-08-2021, 05:56 AM
J20DAN J20DAN is offline
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Thanks for all the info. I am not really up to speed on the older J trucks and this has been great. I already located a front open knuckle front axle that will greatly simplify the disc brake issue as well as the closed vs. open knuckle issue.
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  #5  
Old 10-08-2021, 08:03 AM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J20DAN
Thanks for all the info. I am not really up to speed on the older J trucks and this has been great. I already located a front open knuckle front axle that will greatly simplify the disc brake issue as well as the closed vs. open knuckle issue.
I recall the earlier trucks are spring-over front and the later ones spring under? I'm sure it's been made to work before. Also the earlier the truck, the deeper the axle gearing will be. This truck is likely 4.88s and the later truck 3.54s? Something else to deal with. I'd swap both front and rear, if available and skip new gears. The axle mounts are shown in the parts book.

Re the brake booster, it's the same in '67 as was used through '73. If you can locate a 73-down truck or Wagoneer with power brakes, you could take everything (pedal, bracket, booster) and convert it. Looks like there are zero booster cores available for these years, so you'd want the booster working or not. You need the bracket - group 8.410-1. You'd have to make something similar if you instead use hot rod parts.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk

Last edited by tgreese : 10-08-2021 at 08:10 AM.
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  #6  
Old 10-08-2021, 04:48 PM
J20DAN J20DAN is offline
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Join Date: May 12, 2002
Location: Elkton, MD
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I have located a '76 w/ axle available with front disks, but it may need to be modified if the spring setup is different. Also, the scrap yard does not know (basically it is out in the yard somewhere and the guy said he did not have time to check it out!) if the J10 is manual or auto. I am expecting a gear change will be necessary regardless. I think the stock '67 gearing is 3:90, but I doubt the '76 gearing will be the same. This truck also has a full power brake setup. I will need to see what the difference is.

So a question if the axles from the '67 mount differently should we get the springs from the '76 in addition to the axle?

thanks

Dan
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Last edited by J20DAN : 10-08-2021 at 05:34 PM.
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  #7  
Old 10-08-2021, 09:49 PM
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timwiller timwiller is offline
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brake booster

2C.... Cardone has power brake boosters etc. had mine rebuilt there. they have em for sale. seemed like a straight up outfit. worked great on my '66
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  #8  
Old 10-09-2021, 07:57 AM
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babywag babywag is offline
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Location: Land of froot loops and cukcoo-nuts, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J20DAN
I have located a '76 w/ axle available with front disks, but it may need to be modified if the spring setup is different. Also, the scrap yard does not know (basically it is out in the yard somewhere and the guy said he did not have time to check it out!) if the J10 is manual or auto. I am expecting a gear change will be necessary regardless. I think the stock '67 gearing is 3:90, but I doubt the '76 gearing will be the same. This truck also has a full power brake setup. I will need to see what the difference is.

So a question if the axles from the '67 mount differently should we get the springs from the '76 in addition to the axle?

thanks

Dan

I'd look for a set of 8-lug axles from a Dodge/Chevy.
Better brakes, matched gearing, etc.
Being in the NE probably plentiful?
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  #9  
Old 10-09-2021, 09:36 AM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
Join Date: May 29, 2003
Location: Medford MA USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J20DAN
I have located a '76 w/ axle available with front disks, but it may need to be modified if the spring setup is different. Also, the scrap yard does not know (basically it is out in the yard somewhere and the guy said he did not have time to check it out!) if the J10 is manual or auto. I am expecting a gear change will be necessary regardless. I think the stock '67 gearing is 3:90, but I doubt the '76 gearing will be the same. This truck also has a full power brake setup. I will need to see what the difference is.

So a question if the axles from the '67 mount differently should we get the springs from the '76 in addition to the axle?

thanks

Dan
Realize I have no personal experience with these older trucks other than occasionally driving one back in the day - perhaps someone will correct me if I err. I believe the '67 has post-mount springs front and rear, ie a post sticking out of the side of the frame that the spring bushing slides over. The '76 will have brackets that are mounted to the frame that the springs slide into, and a bolt goes through.

Look at your J20, and the parts book that I referred to above. The parts book will help you a lot if you have the patience to page through the pictures, connect the listings to the pictures, and understand the listings. Reading the whole thing over the internet is way too slow. Download the PDF and open it on your desktop, and page through your local copy.

Suspect the '76 springs won't help you. If I were swapping axles, I would either get the '76 rolling chassis and drop the '67 body onto it, or I would modify the later axles to accept the '67 springs. Basically you'd move the spring pads to match the original axles. If you want a lift kit, there are many more choices for a '76-up truck than your post-mount truck.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk

Last edited by tgreese : 10-09-2021 at 10:04 AM.
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  #10  
Old 10-09-2021, 08:56 PM
J20DAN J20DAN is offline
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Thanks Tgreese for the input. Rewelding the pads where the old springs go sounds like the direction of least resistance!
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  #11  
Old 10-10-2021, 06:36 AM
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backroadin' backroadin' is offline
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http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=66430

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=73856&highlight=post+mount+bushin gs

Some more info on springs and bushing sizes.......

If you find the right length springs, you can swap out the bushings to mount on the frame posts. Looks like you need 26x26x2.5 springs for the rear, same as 74-75 wags and trucks, so your 76 donor is shy by a year. Also look at ford, chevy, dodge, toyota, etc. for other 26" springs. Keep in mind whether the donor are the same mount orientation as yours - i.e. spring over or under.
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"When this baby reaches 88 miles per hour, you're gonna to see some serious sht!"

73 Wagoneer - 4.6L Stroker (yeah baby!!) t176/d300, 3.73's, 33" muds, 4"spring lift, 2" body. Offy dualport w/ Quadrajet, pertronix, flowmaster.

Last edited by backroadin' : 10-10-2021 at 06:43 AM.
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  #12  
Old 10-10-2021, 06:51 AM
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backroadin' backroadin' is offline
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Chevies use a 62" rear spring (26x26) - trucks and suburbans. If you go this route, make sure you're getting the 62" ones, as gm also used a longer spring during the same years. I have chevy springs with swapped bushings on the back of my wag.
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"Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads." -- Dr Emmett Brown

"When this baby reaches 88 miles per hour, you're gonna to see some serious sht!"

73 Wagoneer - 4.6L Stroker (yeah baby!!) t176/d300, 3.73's, 33" muds, 4"spring lift, 2" body. Offy dualport w/ Quadrajet, pertronix, flowmaster.
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  #13  
Old 10-10-2021, 06:27 PM
J20DAN J20DAN is offline
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well we will be shopping again. Truck go sold before we could make the trip down this week to check it out. We had the trip all planned and confirmed with the owner but someone beat us to it.
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Old 10-10-2021, 06:48 PM
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Crankyolman Crankyolman is offline
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Good on your son for choosing something few people have. Sounds like it may be a bit of an adventure but some of my best stories come from adventures, like driving my '66 from Oklahoma to Alaska.


I doubt anybody will ever have a good story that starts off "I was driving my Prius when..."

I'm a big fan of the Kaiser era Gladiators.

My '66 had a single reservoir master cylinder which almost caused a major accident. I don't know when they switched to duel reservoir but updating brakes is a good idea. That said, my '72 still has drum brakes and stops just fine.


There were some guys over on the AMC forums who would modify later AMC intake manifolds for use on the 327s for people but I don't know if they are still active.

I'm pretty sure axle gearing choices at that time was 4:88 or 4:09 depending on various factors. I think my '66 was even lower than 4:88 and my '72 has 3:73 gearing but the service manual says it should have 4:09. A lot of things could likely have been done to a truck in 55 years but that's part of the adventure and future stories.
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  #15  
Old 10-10-2021, 09:50 PM
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cu4whln cu4whln is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J20DAN
well we will be shopping again. Truck go sold before we could make the trip down this week to check it out. We had the trip all planned and confirmed with the owner but someone beat us to it.

Well dang!

Good luck on your search.. they are out there.
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1977 "401" 'Da Chief
1979 Chero: "Madness" [Sold]
1985 CJ : Renegade -locked and loaded
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2001 XJ : Driver - 2016 JK 2 door

'Da Chief here: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...ighlight=chief

Round 2- LT Swap: 'Da Chief:
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Old 10-14-2021, 03:46 PM
J20DAN J20DAN is offline
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I told my son that things happen for a reason. He found a '66 Gladiator, better shape an less money than the other one. Longer drive but worth the trip. He wanted 3 spd manual but it is auto. He asked if I would help him switch it and I said no way! The tranny is a recent rebuild TH400!
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Old 10-16-2021, 06:31 PM
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backroadin' backroadin' is offline
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I think he'll enjoy driving the auto better than the 3spd anyway, although maybe without the "cool" factor.
Hope this purchase works out. And yes, things do tend to happen for a reason.
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"Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads." -- Dr Emmett Brown

"When this baby reaches 88 miles per hour, you're gonna to see some serious sht!"

73 Wagoneer - 4.6L Stroker (yeah baby!!) t176/d300, 3.73's, 33" muds, 4"spring lift, 2" body. Offy dualport w/ Quadrajet, pertronix, flowmaster.
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  #18  
Old 10-17-2021, 03:02 PM
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Heep-J4000 Heep-J4000 is offline
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Automatic transmissions are for old people!

I drove my j4000 every day with T-15 for thirteen years and enjoyed it most of that time!
In the beginning I had some troubles with it that were related to a good used and worn out transmission.
But after some time struggling for parts and having it multiple times on the work bench it did performed great! (had to build some parts myself)

So I would say go for a known good working manual transmission ,or have one rebuild!
I think the best choice would be a T-18 or T-19
But if depends also on the engine and transfer case combination.
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http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=180974

99' Dodge ram 2500 4x4 crew cab 5.9 Cummins ,backup work truck for now
73' Jeep J4000 (named Heep or Desert Dragon) amc 360 V8 converted to LPG with T15/D20 (was my daily work truck for thirteen years and is going to have major overhaul
80' Jeep cj5 350 V8 Chevy/ms420/D300 (a slow ongoing never finished project)

Trucks/car's from the past:
85' Volkswagen caddy mk1 1.6 diesel.
83 Toyota land cruiser BJ42 3.4 diesel.
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  #19  
Old 10-18-2021, 10:31 AM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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JMO - don't be silly - if he wants a manual, put in a shift kit and get a hot-rod-style floor shifter. Tell him it's selectable, like the paddle shifters on exotic sports cars. However, the automatic does make better brakes even more of an priority.

As you know, the TH400 is a strong and durable transmission with plenty of continuing aftermarket and parts support. There are way, way more of these Jeeps out there with an automatic than a manual. Lots has been written on these forums about such an automatic-to-manual conversion, and there are plenty of reasons to embrace the drivetrain the truck has now. Plus for a young driver, he's way more likely to break something with manual shift. Less impact load with an automatic. No burnouts!
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Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk

Last edited by tgreese : 10-18-2021 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 10-18-2021, 01:04 PM
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Heep-J4000 Heep-J4000 is offline
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A Lenco transmission would be fun

Just kidding
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Jeep "because mother nature hates flat roads to"

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=180974

99' Dodge ram 2500 4x4 crew cab 5.9 Cummins ,backup work truck for now
73' Jeep J4000 (named Heep or Desert Dragon) amc 360 V8 converted to LPG with T15/D20 (was my daily work truck for thirteen years and is going to have major overhaul
80' Jeep cj5 350 V8 Chevy/ms420/D300 (a slow ongoing never finished project)

Trucks/car's from the past:
85' Volkswagen caddy mk1 1.6 diesel.
83 Toyota land cruiser BJ42 3.4 diesel.
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