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Old 03-23-2017, 06:44 AM
chuckdds chuckdds is offline
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Upgrading my '85's 360

So, I know there are many discussions the board about how to upgrade the engine these wonderful wagons. Here is what I am thinking for my '85 Grand Wagoneer Limited and would love to hear some comments- both supportive or against or alternatives that worked for you. Also any suggestions on specific products.

1. MSD 6AL ignition module
2. Cam swap: 270-280 duration, .484-.510 Lift
3. New valve springs
4. Holley Sniper 4 barrel injection
5. New intake manifold to go with Holley
6. In-tank electronic fuel pump

Looking forward to some valuable info,
Chuck
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1998 Cherokee SE
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1964 Jeepster (wish I still had this one)
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  #2  
Old 03-23-2017, 06:54 AM
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nograin nograin is offline
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Those are all hot rodding modifications. If you're using it as wagon or street and mild trail rig, those will trade away torque in the range most needed. If you're doing something specific - like competing in climbs or something - then with gearing and tires to match those changes to the power curve could be made useful.
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no "wood" outside
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Old 03-23-2017, 07:24 AM
yossarian19 yossarian19 is offline
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I would look at a coil upgrade before going to the 6AL. A Ford TFI or GM equivalent is a good bet. My understanding is the 6AL / CDI boxes in general show more of their benefits at higher RPM. Other than that, sounds fun.
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Old 03-23-2017, 12:53 PM
chuckdds chuckdds is offline
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hhhmmmm...

Well maybe the info I was given was incorrect- or an overzealous individual who wants to turn my wagoner into a street rod!

I am not competing- it is a daily driver 99% street use. I am looking to overcome the tough starts when the engine is cold, better driveability, and a bit more power.

So much out there, it is tough to decipher what is really the best for my intended use.

help!
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1998 Cherokee SE
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1964 Jeepster (wish I still had this one)
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  #5  
Old 03-23-2017, 01:48 PM
joe joe is offline
 
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I too thought you were hoping to spend a TON of money trying to convert a 100,000 plus miles tired old360 nested in a 4500 lb car into a zoom zoom car. A bone stock good condition 360 starts and runs fine in the desert and in the frozen north. Spend ALOT less money fixing your starting issues. A full tune-up to OEM spec would be a good start. Get a known baseline to diagnose from, then go frome there. The size of the check(s) you write doesn't guarantee it'll cure your issues if you don't now what's wrong. A bone stock 85 came with pretty decent ignition and fuel systems for normal needs. Granted may well/likely need some neglected maint. Figure out what's wrong before throwing big money at just the symptoms. The carbs and ignitions on these are pretty basic and easy to repair But then again, it's your money and agenda not mine. Best of luck.
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Old 03-23-2017, 04:30 PM
chuckdds chuckdds is offline
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Joe-

Thanks for your reply. Believe me, I do not want to spend where I do not need to. Just looking to make this beast the best I can.

Chuck
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1998 Cherokee SE
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Old 03-23-2017, 07:41 PM
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babywag babywag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckdds
Joe-

Thanks for your reply. Believe me, I do not want to spend where I do not need to. Just looking to make this beast the best I can.

Chuck

Honestly I see nothing wrong with your list. But, as stated get it out working/running good first.
FI is a great mod. if added seriously doubt you'd be disappointed?
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88 GW, 67 J3000, 07 Magnum SRT8
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Old 03-24-2017, 03:45 AM
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mdcptman mdcptman is offline
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The tfi upgrade is cheap and easy. The msd improved my cold starts. Don't get the 6AL tho. Just get a 6A. It's cheaper. The 6AL has a Rev limiter. U don't need that. Also I've bought 3 used msd 6As from ebay. 75$. All worked fine. It's good to have a spare.
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88 Grand Wagoneer
360/727/NP208/dana 3.31s
Edelbrock 2131
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Hedman headers
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  #9  
Old 03-24-2017, 06:43 AM
chuckdds chuckdds is offline
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did you do an in-tank fuel pump? I will look into the 6A.

So, from what I am getting form you guys is that I should not really touch the cams at all and just improve the fuel and spark?

Again, I am looking for reliability and driveability - any small increase in mileage is a bonus- but not really expected.

Chuck
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1998 Cherokee SE
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  #10  
Old 03-24-2017, 08:35 AM
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babywag babywag is offline
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If me, I'd do GM style TBI w/ timing control.
Skip MSD and/or TFI "upgrade", just use the GM ignition & coil.
Cheap (if you DIY), reliable, parts available anywhere, new or used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckdds
did you do an in-tank fuel pump? I will look into the 6A.

So, from what I am getting form you guys is that I should not really touch the cams at all and just improve the fuel and spark?

Again, I am looking for reliability and driveability - any small increase in mileage is a bonus- but not really expected.

Chuck
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88 GW, 67 J3000, 07 Magnum SRT8
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  #11  
Old 03-24-2017, 09:25 AM
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SC/397 SC/397 is offline
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I agree with babywag on your list except, your cam choice may be a little big if that duration you list is at .050". This is my very simplified cam list to compare the basics.
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  #12  
Old 03-24-2017, 10:33 AM
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nograin nograin is offline
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Location: Philadelphia, Pa., USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckdds
hhhmmmm...

Well maybe the info I was given was incorrect- or an overzealous individual who wants to turn my wagoner into a street rod!

I am not competing- it is a daily driver 99% street use. I am looking to overcome the tough starts when the engine is cold, better driveability, and a bit more power.

So much out there, it is tough to decipher what is really the best for my intended use.

help!
Quick summary to start seperating chaff from the wheat.
Cams: A basic rule of thumb is that increasing cam duration is for higher rpm and higher rpm is where power is made. Increasing lift potentially can let more air in. This only works if everything else in the system is matched to do this; port and valve that can actually allow that flow, higher compression, etc, etc. When increasing lift and duration the power at the low end is sacrificed. This can be compensated by gearing down, changing torque converters, etc.

Fuel Pump: Electric fuel pump is neccessary to develop the supply pressure needed with a modern electronic fuel injection. A carburetor only needs fuel put in its bowl. It can be fed by gravity if need be. Been there, done that.

EFI: If you're into that, go for it. It will be a project, not a silver bullet.

MSD: Is the best known brand of aftermarket Multiple Spark Capacitive Discharge ignitions. Can be helpful when an engine is hot rodded for two reasons. With a mathcing coil it provides more initial voltage and potentially more spark energy (thats a debated point) and runs effectively even well over 6000 rpm. As typical, there is a tradeoff at low rpm - but the multi-spark firings overcome that.
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Hard Starting: Probably choke settings. Start there.

Better drivability: Depends on the problem. Mine, even when the engine was about to croak, had great throttle response (for 5000 lb vehicle, 2.9 gears).
Suggest starting with usual wear items. Start with spark plug condition and replace. While in there, check the spark plug wire condition and so forth.

Set the carb and timing to factory specs (get a helper with a timing light since some of it is done with transmission in Drive). Tweak idle mix screws, initial timing after that, if you want to see if you can get a little more milage or response.
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'85 Grand Wagoneer
360 727auto, NP229
body by beer (PO)
carries wood inside
no "wood" outside
My other car is a fish

Last edited by nograin : 03-24-2017 at 03:47 PM.
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