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  #1  
Old 05-22-2022, 06:32 PM
altayd9 altayd9 is offline
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Engine won't idle

My project '85 Grand Wagoneer used to run and drive for a little bit after reviving it from sitting in a field for 10 years but it's having some problems now. At first it started to die when the car warmed up and I pressed the gas. I fixed the vacuum hoses to the TAC system and hooked it up properly and I think it's fixed. Then it didn't want to start. Turns out the spark plug wires for cylinder 5 and 7 were swapped the whole time. After fixing that it starts but it does not idle now. It only stays alive for a couple seconds and sputters out. If I try to keep giving it gas with the pedal it backfires. When first started it will be normal on the vacuum gauge and then it dies down and revs back up again and keeps going like this until it dies. I am completely stumped as to what it is.


Heres what I've done so far:
- New fuel filter and fuel pump. The carb is getting gas
- Carb rebuild. I did it myself, maybe I didn't clean it enough
- New ignition components: starter, starter solenoid, spark plugs, duraspark module. All plugs are getting spark, tested with a light.
- Most vacuum hoses that have been eaten by rats were replaced and fixed. Only ones not there are the ones on the air cleaner, one coming from the EGR port that is supposed to go to manifold? but I cannot locate its manifold port. and a red hose from the dash that I'm pretty sure its for the transfer case, and one coming off the top of the vacuum ball on the firewall. I don't have a diagram for that vacuum ball so i am unsure of the connections.


I don't know if this is a vacuum leak, ignition problem, or something else. I would appreciate any advice I can get on this.
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  #2  
Old 05-23-2022, 01:52 AM
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Heep-J4000 Heep-J4000 is offline
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Could be a leaking gasket between carb and intake.
With warming up it starts to leak ,I had the same with my j4000 years ago.
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  #3  
Old 05-23-2022, 04:11 AM
wiley-moeracing wiley-moeracing is offline
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The carb needs to be cleaned, blocked passages, then look for a vacuum leak. plug off all ports and try again, Do you know your fuel filter is in the correct way and fuel pump is pumping fuel when this happens? Garbage in fuel tank and or bad fuel lines? You missed something somewhere, go back and check everything. Install a new or known good ignition module and or coil, try again.
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  #4  
Old 05-23-2022, 11:31 AM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiley-moeracing
The carb needs to be cleaned, blocked passages, then look for a vacuum leak. plug off all ports and try again, Do you know your fuel filter is in the correct way and fuel pump is pumping fuel when this happens? Garbage in fuel tank and or bad fuel lines? You missed something somewhere, go back and check everything. Install a new or known good ignition module and or coil, try again.
Your answer is probably in here. I have nothing to add because this is spot on.
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  #5  
Old 05-23-2022, 11:35 AM
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devildog80 devildog80 is offline
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About 3 weeks now I am currently "in process" of reviving an '84 Grand Wagoneer that has been sitting for 18 yrs, and first thing I did is drop the tank and clean it.

Checking all fuel lines, reclaimed the sending unit with some TLC so know it works as designed, and replacing all rubber connections including fill hoses. Waiting for parts to re-install tank.

Now on yours
How is the fuel flow through your carb?
Aside from the tank that would be my first to check, to make sure carb is working correctly all the way from the tank, then chase spark.

You did not indicate you dropped and cleaned the tank, or verified fuel feed, only you replaced the fuel pump etc.

Just thinkin'
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1984 Grand Wagoneer, 401 ci (.030 over), A727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT (6 LUG) WT 3.31, 4 in arch spring lift (not a woody - think it was ordered new without, 1984 the only year it was an option)
Rather be driving, than waiting for modifications!
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  #6  
Old 05-23-2022, 12:35 PM
altayd9 altayd9 is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Aug 22, 2020
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog80
About 3 weeks now I am currently "in process" of reviving an '84 Grand Wagoneer that has been sitting for 18 yrs, and first thing I did is drop the tank and clean it.

Checking all fuel lines, reclaimed the sending unit with some TLC so know it works as designed, and replacing all rubber connections including fill hoses. Waiting for parts to re-install tank.

Now on yours
How is the fuel flow through your carb?
Aside from the tank that would be my first to check, to make sure carb is working correctly all the way from the tank, then chase spark.

You did not indicate you dropped and cleaned the tank, or verified fuel feed, only you replaced the fuel pump etc.

Just thinkin'




I did drop and clean the tank, forgot to mention that, also this is the 2nd new fuel filter, just in case there was still some gunk left in the tank. Most rubber fuel lines have been replaced
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  #7  
Old 05-23-2022, 12:49 PM
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devildog80 devildog80 is offline
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Good to hear that

Would zero in on the carb to make sure all is working right, flow, vac, etc, then go to next system.

You got this
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1984 Grand Wagoneer, 401 ci (.030 over), A727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT (6 LUG) WT 3.31, 4 in arch spring lift (not a woody - think it was ordered new without, 1984 the only year it was an option)
Rather be driving, than waiting for modifications!
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  #8  
Old 05-26-2022, 06:03 PM
altayd9 altayd9 is offline
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Well I somehow fixed it. It must have been one of two things, either it was taking the carb out and spraying it with carb cleaner, or I finally plugged a port of the EGR in to manifold after figuring out where it goes.
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  #9  
Old 05-26-2022, 06:17 PM
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devildog80 devildog80 is offline
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Very nice.....runs good now?
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1984 Grand Wagoneer, 401 ci (.030 over), A727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT (6 LUG) WT 3.31, 4 in arch spring lift (not a woody - think it was ordered new without, 1984 the only year it was an option)
Rather be driving, than waiting for modifications!
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  #10  
Old 05-26-2022, 08:33 PM
altayd9 altayd9 is offline
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Join Date: Aug 22, 2020
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Runs better than it used to, it fires on all cylinders now. I need to adjust idle speed and tune the carb properly, exhaust still smells heavy. Maybe I need to check something else, the idle didn't drop when it warmed up.
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  #11  
Old 05-27-2022, 09:24 AM
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sierrablue sierrablue is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by altayd9
Runs better than it used to, it fires on all cylinders now. I need to adjust idle speed and tune the carb properly, exhaust still smells heavy. Maybe I need to check something else, the idle didn't drop when it warmed up.
The idle not coming down is probably either a) the carb's main idle is set so high that the choke doesn't affect it (could also happen if you advanced the timing since you initially tuned it), or b) something in the choke linkage is binding up, causing it not to move properly (which could also account for the rich-smelling exhaust). But I'd start with tuning the carb properly, personally.
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  #12  
Old 05-27-2022, 10:44 AM
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devildog80 devildog80 is offline
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Agreed, as the high idle steps can be finicky to get just right, and won't just come down easily on its own.
Usually just tap the gas pedal slightly after warmed up, and should drop down.
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1984 Grand Wagoneer, 401 ci (.030 over), A727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT (6 LUG) WT 3.31, 4 in arch spring lift (not a woody - think it was ordered new without, 1984 the only year it was an option)
Rather be driving, than waiting for modifications!
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  #13  
Old 05-30-2022, 09:07 AM
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backroadin' backroadin' is offline
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I'm betting on that vacuum from the egr was a big part of it. You can get manifold vacuum from a carb port - usually at the base. Use a vacuum gauge to tell - no vacuum or very little at idle is a ported connection, full vacuum at idle is a manifold port. Also, don't forget to check the timing and verify the mechanical and vacuum advance is working and the vacuum advance is hooked up. Double check all the spark plugs wires if you haven't already. Check that port on the vacuum ball - if there's any vacuum, plug that one too until you figure out where it goes. A factory TSM is very helpful, or you could try oljeep.com, they might have one there you can view.

Just some advice for this and any project, really: Never assume that how something is or was is how it's supposed to be. Same with parts - just because it's on there now doesn't mean it's the correct part. You never know what the PO did or what they knew or didn't know.
I've had this bite me many times over the years with so many different things. I even had a snowmobile belt that was wrong for 10 years because I would just take off the one on it and get the same part number - only to discover that I was the one who put the wrong one on all those years ago. Ya never know.....
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  #14  
Old 05-30-2022, 09:40 AM
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babywag babywag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by altayd9
Well I somehow fixed it. It must have been one of two things, either it was taking the carb out and spraying it with carb cleaner, or I finally plugged a port of the EGR in to manifold after figuring out where it goes.

EGR should never get full manifold vacuum. Always ported vacuum, and via CTO that only comes in after engine is up to temp.
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  #15  
Old 05-31-2022, 11:40 AM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backroadin'
...- only to discover that I was the one who put the wrong one on all those years ago. Ya never know.....
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! OOPs! HAHAHAHAHA!!!

(I am SURE I am guilty of this too, don't take this as laughing at you as much as totally relating)
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  #16  
Old 05-31-2022, 05:50 PM
altayd9 altayd9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
EGR should never get full manifold vacuum. Always ported vacuum, and via CTO that only comes in after engine is up to temp.


My mistake, I said EGR but it was a port on the EGR CTO that goes straight to manifold on the TSM. I wasn't able to see 2 manifold ports behind the carburetor until I took it off, it all cleared up I think after I saw it.
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  #17  
Old 05-31-2022, 05:55 PM
altayd9 altayd9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backroadin'
A factory TSM is very helpful, or you could try oljeep.com, they might have one there you can view.





I have the 84-86 TSM and unfortunately the vacuum ball is not shown very well, on the selectrac diagram in the TSM it shows a vacuum canister that looks like the cylinder on the left wheel well and not like a ball. I've attached it best I can guess from pictures and what used to be there. If the previous owner had done something wrong, i'd have preffered to have that over the mess I had due to rats eating away most of the hoses.
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  #18  
Old 06-02-2022, 03:02 PM
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nograin nograin is offline
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The MR 253 only has the 1984 vacuum diagrams.
For 1985, and 1986, use the supplements if the diagram inthe engine bay is missing.



Photos of both '85 and '86 are here
https://oljeep.com/gw/vac/GW_vacuum.html


Let's look at '85, which is from my '85



The Dual CTO is connected to the ported vacuum connection on the carb labeled E.
When the throttle is slightly to moderately opened above idle there is vacuum in that line.
IF the coolant termpature is high enough, the CTO allows the E vacuum to connect with the hose going to the EGR TVS on the back of the air filter housing.
If the air termperature is warm enough, then the EGR will get vacuum.
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  #19  
Old 06-10-2022, 11:01 AM
altayd9 altayd9 is offline
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Very upset, it seems something still isn’t right. I tried to drive it to the shop today and when I got on the main road it just cut out and died. It then refused to run. It seemed to want to run when I cranked it but something was cutting it off. I recently tried to fix the lines on the air cleaner, I wonder if that had anything to do with it because I did drive it for 10-15 minutes before that
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Last edited by altayd9 : 06-10-2022 at 11:08 AM.
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  #20  
Old 06-10-2022, 11:07 AM
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devildog80 devildog80 is offline
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I have one of those going too, that just will not fix, no matter what is done.

Keep at it, as you WILL find the problem
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1984 Grand Wagoneer, 401 ci (.030 over), A727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT (6 LUG) WT 3.31, 4 in arch spring lift (not a woody - think it was ordered new without, 1984 the only year it was an option)
Rather be driving, than waiting for modifications!
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