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  #1  
Old 12-26-2006, 07:53 PM
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rreed rreed is offline
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Unhappy Pulling motor w/o pulling (T-18) trans?

Dumb question, how feasible is it to pull the motor and leave in the trans (b/h supported by jack stand)?

I've gotten to this point. Just as the sun was going down and I was tired and ready to turn in I got the last bolt out of the b/h, lifted the drive train enough to get a jack stand supporting the b/h, put a bit of pressure on the hoist, gave a couple tugs. It moved just enough to show a tiny gap among motor/thin plate/b/h but didn't come forward. I was done and turned in for the night.

Just wondering if it's feasible to pull the motor as such and drop a new one in.
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  #2  
Old 12-26-2006, 08:53 PM
ob1jeeper
 
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Yep... Should work fine as long as everything is blocked so the vehicle won't roll away, etc...

You'll need a clutch aligning tool to cehter the disc on your new motor, but otherwise, it should be a plug-n-ply deal...


Good Luck...
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  #3  
Old 12-26-2006, 09:27 PM
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JeremySmith JeremySmith is offline
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That's how I yanked mine. Of course - I didn't use a jackstand on the floor - I used two on the inside of the truck, then chained the trans to a piece of 2x2 angle spanning between the two. Worked great and kept it semi-mobile and possible to move around while the engine was out. It was kind of a pia to get it all lined up again, but possible. Good Luck!
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  #4  
Old 12-27-2006, 06:59 PM
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Yeah well it's not working out so well right now, I can get a small gap b/t the engine/trans. but it won't break free. I can wiggle it all around but it will not come forward. I'm not sure I'm getting the engine lined up straight to pull it off so will be running by to pick up the chains for my buddy's engine balancer for the engine hoist.

All bolts are out of the b/h, motor mounts are completely free, dust cover off the b/h..
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  #5  
Old 12-27-2006, 07:11 PM
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aerocorey aerocorey is offline
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That sucks, man. Sometimes they hang up. Double check for missed connections and keep trying. A friend of mine had his tranny hung up on an alignment dowell trying to get it out. He wanted this engine out so bad that we cargo strapped it to his Honda Foreman through the grille and drove away from the truck at full throttle! It still didn't get the engine off of the tranny and nearly pulled the truck over the chocks we had in front of the tires. He called up this big old master sergeant we work with. That guy came over to the house, climbed into the engine bay, put the engine in a bear hug, grunted and pulled, and it came off the tranny. I couldn't get the engine out of my '88 for several hours before I realized I was hung up on the exhaust. Hang with it, you'll get it out. Just try not to put too much stress on the tranny input.
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  #6  
Old 12-27-2006, 07:15 PM
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10-4. I'm have the trans. propped up a bit w/ the jack stand, I'm going to try to lower it one notch, chain up the engine balancer, and give it another whirl when I have more daylight. I'm not even leaving the dowels yet. About 1/16-1/8" away, just barely a gap right now. I can yank and tug on the hoist/engine but flying solo I can't tell what I'm doing. Going to call in backup for next attack.
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  #7  
Old 12-27-2006, 07:21 PM
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BRUTUS BRUTUS is offline
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You have removed the radiator right? I mean you aren't trying to remove it with the radiator in...

I am pretty sure the gap between bell and engine is somewhere between 2 and 3" until the T-18 lets go... The pilot shaft is what hangs up.

Just helped a friend of mine put his engine back in his cherokee... so here are my re-assembly notes:
  1. Once the engine is out, check the throwout fork and throwout bearing for wear before re-installing the engine... how much clutch is left?
  2. Clutch alignment tool is d*** near worth its weight in gold when you go to put the engine back in. If you don't have one, I would suggest getting a clutch kit or finding someone on here that has one you can borrow. IIRC they are like $30 + shipping depending on how fast you need one. DEFINATELY not worth it.
  3. Do NOT try and re-use the bolts that hold the flywheel to the crank. IT JUST ISN'T WORTH IT. Go to the hardware store and buy the next biggest size (the bolts that come out are an "in-between" size) and buy some lockwashers to space the bolts out so the dust cover clears when you go to re-install. Trust me on this one... you don't want to find out that the dust cover won't go in because the bolts are too long when you are under the rig with the pilot shaft engaged.
  4. Also don't re-use the bolts that hold the pressure plate to the flywheel, taking the flywheel to a machinist to remove a broken bolt SUCKS!
EDIT: Another thing to consider is that if the tranny isn't sitting on its support while you are trying to pull the motor, the tranny will want to bind up with the motor. Do you have a load leveler on the cherry picker? The load leveler can help with the binding if that is what you have. I would start with small screwdrivers and pry the bellhousing against the engine. Then move up to a prybar or spreader bar or anything else that can be used to pry that sucker apart.
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Last edited by BRUTUS : 12-27-2006 at 07:27 PM.
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  #8  
Old 12-27-2006, 07:47 PM
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I pulled mine without taking out the tranny. Of course I pulled the radiator and had the fan off when I did it. Gives you more room to manuever. Also like Brutus said a load leveler is near heaven sent when getting them to line up for removal and installation.

Are you changing the clutch when it's out?
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  #9  
Old 12-27-2006, 11:49 PM
ob1jeeper
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUTUS
  • 3. Do NOT try and re-use the bolts that hold the flywheel to the crank. IT JUST ISN'T WORTH IT. Go to the hardware store and buy the next biggest size (the bolts that come out are an "in-between" size) and buy some lockwashers to space the bolts out so the dust cover clears when you go to re-install. Trust me on this one... you don't want to find out that the dust cover won't go in because the bolts are too long when you are under the rig with the pilot shaft engaged.
  • 4. Also don't re-use the bolts that hold the pressure plate to the flywheel, taking the flywheel to a machinist to remove a broken bolt SUCKS!
I'm gonna dissent on #3... Better to re-use the original fasteners than get incorrectly graded bolts from a hardware store. These need to be Grade 8 (or better) 1/2-20 fasteners, of proper length AND head clearance, so they don't drag on the clutch disc, and/or it's appendages. Your local Chrysler/Jeep Dealer or Napa store are proper sources for correct new ones, if you wish to replace them...

The bolts on the clutch cover are far more critical to replace with new, because thier sizing makes them more prone to damage during install/removals. Again you local dealer or Napa store should carry what you need.. And I agree these should be NEW...
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  #10  
Old 12-28-2006, 12:11 PM
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rreed rreed is offline
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Radiator and fan, pulley are all out. Yes it will most certainly be getting a new clutch, et al before the new motor goes in. Probably CF II or DF.

I understand you have to use flywheel bolts specific to the motor/setup. Regular Grade 8s will not do (clutch clearance issues). I'll pick up a handful of new flywheel and pressure plate bolts.

I have a load leveler but haven't been able to use it for having wrong chain. I'm going to pick up proper chain today so hopefully that will help out.

I can pry b/t b/h and trans. w/ a screwdriver and it'll move, just goes right back where it was. I'm going to try to adjust everything around a bit and get the load leveler in there and try again. Not sure if I can this weekend, trail run and possible rain/storms may keep me away.
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  #11  
Old 12-28-2006, 12:19 PM
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Getting mine out wasn't bad. We spent the better part of 5 hours cussin' at it trying to get it back in though. 3 of us and with the load leveler on the cherry picker and a hyd floor jack under the trans.
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  #12  
Old 12-28-2006, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ob1jeeper
I'm gonna dissent on #3... Better to re-use the original fasteners than get incorrectly graded bolts from a hardware store. These need to be Grade 8 (or better) 1/2-20 fasteners, of proper length AND head clearance, so they don't drag on the clutch disc, and/or it's appendages. Your local Chrysler/Jeep Dealer or Napa store are proper sources for correct new ones, if you wish to replace them...

I DID re-use the original fastners the first time I put the flywheel on. When I broke one of the bolts torqing them to spec... I had enough of that and headed for ACE. I was EXTREMELY LUCKY that I had enough of the bolt shoulder to grab onto with a vice grips once the flywheel was removed to get the bolt out. No telling how long it would have taken me with screw extractors and tiny drill bits to remove. Ever since that episode, I replace EVERY bolt and nut that comes off my rig with new as a rule.

I don't know the last time you were looking at your flywheel to crank bolts for clearance... IIRC mine with the lockwashers installed had about 1" clearance to the clutch disk because of the cast "dish" at the crank.

I looked at the dealer and Napa and couldn't find replacement bolts for this joint. I have run ACE hardware grade 8 bolts with lockwashers for three years and haven't had any problems with them... now if only I could find a throwout bearing that was worth a ****!
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  #13  
Old 12-31-2006, 02:07 PM
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Angry

Well I'll be ****ed, once you pull ALL the bolts from the bellhousing it slips right off. What do you know?? I've been tugging, pulling, prying, cussing, crying trying to get that **** thing off there to no avail for three days now. The passenger side would not come loose. I'd been all over that **** bell housing looking for a missed bolt and could not find a one.

Today after taking a ratchet strap to that side hooked up to the grill support, pulling it in a good 1" or so, I began to think of pulling the grill off and winching it off w/ one of my other Jeeps. No kidding, I was starting to think how 1-2 bumps on the trigger ought to do it. Then I figured what the hell, one more look won't hurt. On this overcast day I guess the light was just right, soon as I slid under there on the creeper, right there barely 3" in front of my nose was the last large bolt tucked and hidden neatly away b/t a couple ribs on the b/h. I'll be ****ed.

A quick zip w/ the impact and the motor went "thunk!" and dangled in mid air from the engine hoist. Viola. Apparently there are four smaller bolts around the top of the b/h and two larger ones at 3 and 9 o'clock. I'd missed the 9 o'clock as it was hidden b/t a couple of ribs and still camoflaged w/ grease/grime. It took a rainy day to uncover it. Once you get all the bolts off, the engine balance just about right w/ an engine balancer (yes this IS your friend here) it comes right off.

The old clutch looked like twice-hammered dog poo but I was going to replace it anyway. Covered in grease/grime and worn down to rivets, it was a remanu. Flywheel teeth are pretty thin in a couple places so I'm hoping the donor is in better shape.

Anyway, once you get all the bolts out it comes right off the trans. Piece of cake, right?
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  #14  
Old 12-31-2006, 02:12 PM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
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yep,been there myself.if you gotta start using brute force,better start re-checking for fasteners.
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  #15  
Old 12-31-2006, 02:40 PM
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I would have no idea what you mean. I've never done that...
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  #16  
Old 12-31-2006, 03:09 PM
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yeah brute force...aint done that neither since yesterday new timing cover for Toyota needed
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  #17  
Old 01-29-2007, 12:37 PM
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Thumbs down

After a few hours of pushing, pulling, prying, cussing, crying, buddy and I finally got it dropped b/t the fenders, bolted up to the b/h, sitting on the motor mount (bolts because the hole assembly needs to be moved around...). I will never again swap an engine w/o pulling the trans. Not sure I'd even consider an auto. I'm hoping to hell we didn't bend up the clutch plate after wiggling it this way and that, swinging it to and fro, jumping up and down on it begging it to magically fall into place..

It was a 3+ hr. ordeal trying to get the engine magically lined up to slip all the way into place including having to use a come-a-long to pull the drive train forward enough for the valve cover to clear the firewall. Next time suck it up and pull the trans.
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