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  #21  
Old 04-03-2021, 12:18 AM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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I may have found an extremely anti-climatic answer.

Today I was exploring around Oahu (near USCG Air Station Barbers Point) and found an abandoned JK chassis sitting in some brush.


Sure enough, rear axle is still there and sealed up:

The Google Jeep part book says that part number is a Dana 44 with 30 spline axles.


I think I am going to borrow some wrenches from a co-worker that is here local, use the jack from my rental car and pull the spider gears out of this.

Then I can save my money for tires and continue saving up for a Limited slip/rebuild by a shop when I am more ready.

Thoughts? Bad idea? Won't work?
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  #22  
Old 04-03-2021, 07:47 AM
SJTD SJTD is offline
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They going to fit yours? Seems a bit newer.

Maybe would be better to find some feller headed to Hueneme, buy him a few beers and get him to sneak it onto his ship.

Then do another frame swap.
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  #23  
Old 04-03-2021, 08:00 AM
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backroadin' backroadin' is offline
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Were your spider gears bad or is there a limited slip in there?
As to the lunchbox locker - I went down this road and it turns out with the 3.73's I have (d44) the cross shaft will not slide out without removal of the ring gear - which negated the whole simplicity thing with the lunchbox locker since you've got to pull the carrier to remove the ring gear. There's a cutoff - I can't remember which way it goes, but at a certain gear ratio size, the shaft will clear it, and higher or lower it won't. I was told 3.73's would clear it but it does not. So I never installed the locker. Same would be true of swapping spider gears. I seem to remember that higher gear ratios were good to go, but it's been a while.
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  #24  
Old 04-03-2021, 10:36 AM
RamJetFSJ RamJetFSJ is offline
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Jk Dana 44 gears are different than old standard 44 gears. Look up the Janet’s engineering Jana K4 kit.

http://www.jantz4x4.com//jantz.php?p=detail&pro=jana_k4
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  #25  
Old 04-03-2021, 06:44 PM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJTD
They going to fit yours? Seems a bit newer.

Maybe would be better to find some feller headed to Hueneme, buy him a few beers and get him to sneak it onto his ship.

Then do another frame swap.
I think the Spider gears and side gears should be the same... if it's an open diff. Anyone know for sure?

Haha! I would consider it (bringing this chassis home)! I am 99% sure this frame is from a stolen Jeep that was stripped and just dumped in this field. It would be hard to get it under my Cherk, legally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by backroadin'
Were your spider gears bad or is there a limited slip in there?
As to the lunchbox locker - I went down this road and it turns out with the 3.73's I have (d44) the cross shaft will not slide out without removal of the ring gear - which negated the whole simplicity thing with the lunchbox locker since you've got to pull the carrier to remove the ring gear. There's a cutoff - I can't remember which way it goes, but at a certain gear ratio size, the shaft will clear it, and higher or lower it won't. I was told 3.73's would clear it but it does not. So I never installed the locker. Same would be true of swapping spider gears. I seem to remember that higher gear ratios were good to go, but it's been a while.
Yeah, busted a spider gear. That's what started this whole thread.


I considered a Lunchbox locker but I don't really "need" a LS or a locker at this point but my long term plan is a LS. I am fairly OK with the gears I have at this point so I do not want to invest in gears or a carrier unless I do the WHOLE axle and then just be done with it. I am just not ready for that yet ($$$$). When I shopped spider gears right after I found my spider gear soup, I found a new set is like $100 and they all seem to be the same for 30 spline axles. I didn't want to spend $100 and end up in the same boat I was before I killed that spider.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamJetFSJ
Jk Dana 44 gears are different than old standard 44 gears. Look up the Janet’s engineering Jana K4 kit.

http://www.jantz4x4.com//jantz.php?p=detail&pro=jana_k4
Copy that. I am only going to grab the spider gears, side gears, and pin. I don't plan to grab the whole carrier. I have to get these home in my suitcase.
**********************************
Today I picked up a metric ratcheting wrench set (8-19mm), a hammer, and a big screw to use as a drift. There is a chain there at the sight I am going to use to pull the axles out of the housing, too. My rental car does not have a jack (annoyed) but there is also an abandoned Saturn around the corner from the JK Frame and I am hoping there is still a jack in it's trunk.
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  #26  
Old 04-04-2021, 07:37 PM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Got the cover off and the inside looks great! Fresh oil in it.

As a wise man once said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by backroadin'
...the cross shaft will not slide out without removal of the ring gear...
So I started pulling it apart to get the carrier out. I was able to disassemble everything but will need a slide hammer from McParts tool loaner pool. Also, on one of the axle retaining plates, the stud is spinning with the nut. Not sure how I will get that off with the limited tools I have. If I was home, I would grab a grinder and cut it off but working out of a hotel room. I'll figure something out.
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  #27  
Old 04-04-2021, 08:50 PM
Dave Jeeper Dave Jeeper is offline
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Cold chisel and small sledge hammer?
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  #28  
Old 04-04-2021, 09:24 PM
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Damn, National drivetrain lists a spider gear set for $50
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  #29  
Old 04-04-2021, 09:30 PM
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Also, they list a different spider gear kit number for a jk.
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Putting this back up. "Someone is gonna have to crawl under the rig"
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  #30  
Old 04-05-2021, 12:26 AM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Jeeper
Cold chisel and small sledge hammer?
That's what I was thinking, too. More below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by J20 project
Damn, National drivetrain lists a spider gear set for $50

Also, they list a different spider gear kit number for a jk.
That's alot less than I have been seeing! When I was looking, I was seeing $75+. Stupid.

Whelp, I guess it's better that I couldn't get them out. More below.
****************************
Got bored in my hotel room so I went back out. Picked up a slide hammer from McParts and a cold chisel from Home Depot.
1) Started with the slide hammer on the axle where I did get all 4 nuts off the retaining plate. I beat the living H E double hockey sticks out of that thing and it laughed at me! In fact, the 3 grade 5 nuts I used to connect the axle pulling flange to the lug studs all had damage to them. I spent a good 30 mins slamming that slide hammer and got frustrated, blistery hands, and sweaty.
2) I thought, Maybe if I over-torque'ed the nut, I could bust the stud off. I used my wrench and a pipe about 2 feet long and started cranking away. It started off well. I went slow and I was able to pull about 2 threads through the nut, then the nut just started spinning on the stud (though the stud was holding). I spun it a few more times but it became clear that the nut was just spinning on stripped threads.
3) Then I tried my cold chisel and hammer. I banged away on both the nut and the stud and I just wasn't making much progress. So between the slow progress with the cold chisel and me not being able to pull the other side's axle off, I gave up.

I called a bust. I have invested about $15 in tools (after I return the wrench set I bought and the loaner tools from McParts) and hardware and about 4 hours of wrenching. I am OK with that because it was pretty fun wrenching on it and it killed a boring day in my hotel.

SOOOOoooo.... Would the spider gears in my front axle be the same as the ones I need for my back axle? Maybe I will just pilfer my front axle so I can at least drive my truck for now (eerr... "now" meaning, next month). Then, I will continue to save up for my LS. Then when I have $$ for my LS in the back, I'll move the spider gears back to the front.
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Last edited by rang-a-stang : 04-05-2021 at 12:32 AM.
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  #31  
Old 04-05-2021, 08:33 AM
threepiece threepiece is offline
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My first axle took three months to build. This included making all the tools except for the bearing puller and installing an ARB Locker.

At the time I had only a vague understanding of the process. The process went much faster once I understood exactly what the objective is and how the gears relate to each other with small changes. I strongly recommend you study this carefully before you apply any tool to the job.

How some of you fellows properly install carriers without a case spreader is beyond me.
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  #32  
Old 04-05-2021, 09:00 AM
SJTD SJTD is offline
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If it fits that tight it doesn't need all those shims, right? Just leave a few out.

Must be ok since the seem to do it in the magazines, right?



Notice the above smilies before jumping all over me!

Was that directed at the OP? You understand he was trying to get it a junker apart out in a field right? He hadn't even gotten to where a spreader would be used.
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  #33  
Old 04-05-2021, 09:28 AM
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We had a guy out here that blew a rear gear set when he was elk hunting. Ended up pulling the rear driveshaft, going to 4-high, and driving it that way for a few months until he fixed the rear. Will work unless it's a slip yoke on the transfer case. No sense tearing apart the front just for the spiders and sides, plus you're removing the inner support for the shafts, and they'll tend to flop a little.
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  #34  
Old 04-05-2021, 05:43 PM
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Marc....just stop man...I will hook you up somehow.....do not take your front axle apart...do not keep dreaming of ways to fix it all..
Please I will get you squared away for the rear diff...


Do you have a pickup truck..or no? Doesn't matter, just thought I would ask.


J20
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  #35  
Old 04-06-2021, 08:09 AM
threepiece threepiece is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJTD
If it fits that tight it doesn't need all those shims, right? Just leave a few out.

Must be ok since the seem to do it in the magazines, right?
.

Well, yes and no I think.

It will probably be fine for light load driving. However, as the horse power/load increases so will the axle temperature. I believe the extra preload provided by the shims is to compensate for the expanding housing during high load/heat conditions. This will help keep the components in their intended position which will reduce wear/increase durability.
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  #36  
Old 04-06-2021, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J20 project
Marc....just stop man.....do not take your front axle apart...do not keep dreaming of ways to fix it all..

x2
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  #37  
Old 04-06-2021, 11:19 AM
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Yeah, you guys are right. It just sucks being away from my truck and tools where all I can do is dream about fixing it.

I know I have time. I plan to hit up a few offroad shops here on the island and see if any of them have extra spider gears laying around from a locker swap (that was Babywags idea, btw). If that does not work, I will hit some wrecking yards when I get home. This should not be hard. I wish I could go straight to LS but I really need tires more.
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  #38  
Old 04-06-2021, 02:58 PM
SJTD SJTD is offline
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Something mentioned above, though not explicit, made me think.

You sure the side gears are ok after the spiders shredded?

Threepiece, it was a joke.
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  #39  
Old 04-06-2021, 06:21 PM
Dave Jeeper Dave Jeeper is offline
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I had an older ARB in a Dana 35 in the back of my XJ. After lots of miles, the differential case (pumpkin housing) stretched more than .015" and I lost my preload on the carrier bearings. The ARB started to get stressed from lack of preload and it popped the heads off the cap screws that held it together. As the ring gear turned, it picked up the bolt head and carried it into the pinion gear and the gears ate the bolt head. Some of the pieces wound up in the pinion bearings.



Long story short, I got a new ARB locker from the ARB guys and bought a used Dana 35 to put it in.


Once a gear breaks, the tiny pieces often get swept up into the pinion gear teeth and the pinion bearings. A complete disassembly is probably in order to examine the pinion gear teeth and the pinion bearings. Also flushing out the oil path that lubes the pinion bearings (there is an oil path cast into the pumpkin).


Have you considered picking up a used axle if one is available and swapping it in? Swapping an axle is pretty easy. The hardest part is hooking up the e-brake cables and bleeding the brake hydraulic lines.
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  #40  
Old 04-06-2021, 08:49 PM
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Pretty sure i have a used set up if that would do.
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Putting this back up. "Someone is gonna have to crawl under the rig"
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