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Old 06-22-2011, 06:56 PM
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fenix687 fenix687 is offline
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Cylinder Head

does anyone have a detailed write up on replacing a cylinder head or any pointers for me?
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1984 Grand Wagoneer (Argo)
360, 727, NP208, pinned front axle, Dunlop Mud Rovers 31x10.50,
emissions delete, Edelbrock intake manifold, Edelbrock 1406,
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Old 06-22-2011, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fenix687
does anyone have a detailed write up on replacing a cylinder head or any pointers for me?

If you haven't done this before, then the best advice I could offer is to not do it unless you have a service manual (your detailed write up) or a buddy alongside who's experienced.
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Old 06-22-2011, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich88
If you haven't done this before, then the best advice I could offer is to not do it unless you have a service manual (your detailed write up) or a buddy alongside who's experienced.

Pfftt...

Easy job, first real wrenchin' I ever did was on a '77 Cherokee w/401.
I was ~14 yrs old. Removed and replaced the heads almost myself.
Dad helped some because I was too wimpy to lift the heads.

oljeep.com has service manuals online pick any of them and read the procedure. I say go for it.
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Old 06-22-2011, 08:05 PM
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i have this in pdf format.


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1984 Grand Wagoneer (Argo)
360, 727, NP208, pinned front axle, Dunlop Mud Rovers 31x10.50,
emissions delete, Edelbrock intake manifold, Edelbrock 1406,
ebay electric fuel pump, more everyday
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Old 06-22-2011, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fenix687
i have this in pdf format.



Well then....perfect. You should be telling us a few things.

You're good to go. Here's a few of the 137 tips that come to mind.

Completely douche the engine compartment with engine degreaser and hose it off the day before.

Get a box of zip lock baggies and masking tape to make labels and mark each bag as you fill it with nuts/bolts, etc. from each place you removed stuff.

When attempting to remove the banjo bolts holding the air injection tubes on the heads, if they don't start turning by around 40 ft lbs of torque, get a hammer and rap the bolt heads dead on a couple times. H*ell, do it first anyway. This will help to break the "rust weld". I've broken off a few of these in the heads because of this. If they still do not come off, sacrifice the air tubes by cutting them and have the shop remove them using an oxy torch to heat 'em up good.

Ditto for exhaust manifold bolts. If they're super tight, rap 'em. If you break any off, shop will have to remove them for $.

Make sure you use gasket sealer on both the head port sides and intake manifold sides of the valley pan gasket when you install the new gasket.

When re-installing exhaust manifolds consider: Using super thick gasket, and instead of using original bolts, install studs in the heads and use SS washers & nuts. Makes re-install a lot easier.

Use 6-point sockets, not 12. If you have any, throw 'em away.

Shortcuts are best made by those who've done it by the book first or found out the hard way already which work and which don't.

Finally...why are you replacing a cylinder head? Do you really mean just one?
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Last edited by Rich88 : 06-23-2011 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich88
Well then....perfect. You should be telling us a few things.

You're good to go. Here's a few of the 137 tips that come to mind.

Completely douche the engine compartment with engine degreaser and hose it off the day before.

Get a box of zip lock baggies and masking tape to make labels and mark each bag as you fill it with nuts/bolts, etc. from each place you removed stuff.

When attempting to remove the banjo bolts holding the air injection tubes on the heads, if they don't start turning by around 40 ft lbs of torque, get a hammer and rap the bolt heads dead on a couple times. H*ell, do it first anyway. This will help to break the "rust weld". I've broken off a few of these in the heads because of this. If they still do not come off, sacrifice the air tubes by cutting them and have the shop remove them using.

Ditto for exhaust manifold bolts. If they're super tight, rap 'em. If you break any off, shop will have to remove them for $.

Make sure you use gasket sealer on both the head port sides and intake manifold sides of the valley pan gasket when you install the new gasket.

When re-installing exhaust manifolds consider: Using super thick gasket, and instead of using original bolts, install studs in the heads and use SS washers & nuts. Makes re-install a lot easier.

Use 6-point sockets, not 12. If you have any, throw 'em away.

Shortcuts are best made by those who've done it by the book first or found out the hard way already which work and which don't.

Finally...why are you replacing a cylinder head? Do you really mean just one?


well... the PO had the engine rebuilt about 2500 miles ago in 2000. yeah it wasn't driven very much. when i replaced the intake manifold a few months ago the engine looked incredible.





got everything back together and had what i thought were tranny issues so chevelleguy took it and did some adjusting and sealing and other stuff to the drivetrain. when i got it back he said that he thought the head in cylinder 7 was dead. therefore i need to replace a head
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1984 Grand Wagoneer (Argo)
360, 727, NP208, pinned front axle, Dunlop Mud Rovers 31x10.50,
emissions delete, Edelbrock intake manifold, Edelbrock 1406,
ebay electric fuel pump, more everyday
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  #7  
Old 06-23-2011, 03:23 AM
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Before you tear down, a leak down test is in order unless there are clear signs of the exact culprit. It is possible you have a cracked head but it is also possible you have any one of another half dozen issues, blown head gasket, cracked block, holed or cracked piston, broken or burnt valve, all of which require a tear down (unless the block is cracked, then you might as well start over) but after a leak down you will have a more clear cut idea of what you'll need to do after a tear down. Please explain why the head is suspect.
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Old 06-23-2011, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich88
Well then....perfect. You should be telling us a few things.

You're good to go. Here's a few of the 137 tips that come to mind.

Completely douche the engine compartment with engine degreaser and hose it off the day before.

Get a box of zip lock baggies and masking tape to make labels and mark each bag as you fill it with nuts/bolts, etc. from each place you removed stuff.

When attempting to remove the banjo bolts holding the air injection tubes on the heads, if they don't start turning by around 40 ft lbs of torque, get a hammer and rap the bolt heads dead on a couple times. H*ell, do it first anyway. This will help to break the "rust weld". I've broken off a few of these in the heads because of this. If they still do not come off, sacrifice the air tubes by cutting them and have the shop remove them using.

Ditto for exhaust manifold bolts. If they're super tight, rap 'em. If you break any off, shop will have to remove them for $.

Make sure you use gasket sealer on both the head port sides and intake manifold sides of the valley pan gasket when you install the new gasket.

When re-installing exhaust manifolds consider: Using super thick gasket, and instead of using original bolts, install studs in the heads and use SS washers & nuts. Makes re-install a lot easier.

Use 6-point sockets, not 12. If you have any, throw 'em away.

Shortcuts are best made by those who've done it by the book first or found out the hard way already which work and which don't.

Finally...why are you replacing a cylinder head? Do you really mean just one?

sure seems simple but valley pan gasket install was a PITA for me : i got coolant leaks..Maybe actually something wrong with the heads or the intake manifold, don't know yet
Thanks for the tips
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Last edited by mud89 : 06-23-2011 at 05:23 AM.
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  #9  
Old 06-23-2011, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azpackrat
Before you tear down, a leak down test is in order unless there are clear signs of the exact culprit. It is possible you have a cracked head but it is also possible you have any one of another half dozen issues, blown head gasket, cracked block, holed or cracked piston, broken or burnt valve, all of which require a tear down (unless the block is cracked, then you might as well start over) but after a leak down you will have a more clear cut idea of what you'll need to do after a tear down. Please explain why the head is suspect.


i am not sure chevelleguy said thats what he thought it was.

personally i can't feel or hear it in the engine but i might just not know what to look or hear for.
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1984 Grand Wagoneer (Argo)
360, 727, NP208, pinned front axle, Dunlop Mud Rovers 31x10.50,
emissions delete, Edelbrock intake manifold, Edelbrock 1406,
ebay electric fuel pump, more everyday
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Old 06-23-2011, 02:33 PM
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Before you do any disassembly find out why the cylinder is believed to be dead, a compression test would be the proper way to determine this. After the compression test and if the cylinder is out of spec (plus or minus 15psi of the average of the other cylinders) then move forward. Low pressure would indicate a need for a leak down, air pressure is applied to the cylinder while the valves are seated (compression stroke) and you listen for escaping pressure to determine were the seal is failing. High pressue might indicate valve train damage or a flat lobe on the cam (or the other seven are really leaky? ) Either way if it was just a guess it could get expensive and frustrating really fast.
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Old 06-23-2011, 03:16 PM
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Stuart

I have a Haynes & a Chilton both. Just ask Chevelle guy he'll tell you what he saw. could be as simple as a broken rocker.

Let me know if you want to us them. My time will be tight until mid July but then I'll be glad to help.
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Old 06-23-2011, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fenix687
i am not sure chevelleguy said thats what he thought it was.

personally i can't feel or hear it in the engine but i might just not know what to look or hear for.

Something's not making sense, because a dead cylinder is quite obvious in how it sounds and feels. The engine would shake a lot at idle and you'd be able to feel a definite rhythmic "skip" when putting your hand up to the exhaust.

So yes, need make sure you're ripping into it for the right reason.
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Old 06-24-2011, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich88
Something's not making sense, because a dead cylinder is quite obvious in how it sounds and feels. The engine would shake a lot at idle and you'd be able to feel a definite rhythmic "skip" when putting your hand up to the exhaust.

So yes, need make sure you're ripping into it for the right reason.



yeah definitely don't want to take things apart i don't need to. i am going to spend some time friday tweaking timing and seeing if some more tuning can get me going. will let you guys know.
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1984 Grand Wagoneer (Argo)
360, 727, NP208, pinned front axle, Dunlop Mud Rovers 31x10.50,
emissions delete, Edelbrock intake manifold, Edelbrock 1406,
ebay electric fuel pump, more everyday
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Old 06-24-2011, 01:24 AM
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Your time would be better spent determining if the cylinder is actually dead, I would assume that Chevellguy was being honest with you and truly believes that you have a dead cylinder. If the cylinder is dead no amount of tuning is going to revive it.
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Old 06-24-2011, 12:20 PM
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Some terms were lost in translation from an auto guy to a computer guy.

The exhaust valve is either burnt or broken in cylinder 7. 0psi compression and when I put compressed air to it, it all came out the tail pipe.
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Old 06-24-2011, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevelleguy
Some terms were lost in translation from an auto guy to a computer guy.

The exhaust valve is either burnt or broken in cylinder 7. 0psi compression and when I put compressed air to it, it all came out the tail pipe.

then yes by all means pull that sucker and have it checked if you dont think you can tell the problem.pulling it yourself will save you a bunch of money.
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Old 06-24-2011, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevelleguy
Some terms were lost in translation from an auto guy to a computer guy.

The exhaust valve is either burnt or broken in cylinder 7. 0psi compression and when I put compressed air to it, it all came out the tail pipe.

I had a feeling there was more to the story than just casual advice Lost in translation is too common when your experience lies eleswhere. Well fenix, first advice I can give you if you want to do this job is take many pics and lable them. Second, get the proper tools, a half inch drive 150# torque wrench is an absolute must and as mentioned six point sockets are prefered. An engine hoist is not necessary, but the heads and intake are very heavy and awkward so it is a big help if available. Other than that a good set of hand tools will suffice. Third, do both sides. Even though your problem is in the left bank, you should at least replace both head gaskets, I have seen many people short cut and do a single head gasket only to have the other fail within months, you will NOT want to repeat this job in the near future. Forth, foucus on finishing this job, while it may seem to be a good time to take care of this and that, it isn't, this is how we get overwhelmed and soon give up, this is from experience. Fifth, find a good machine shop and let them look over both heads and head bolts, the bolts may need to be replaced as they stretch when torqued. As mentioned above it's much more pleasant to work on a clean engine than a grease ball so clean and clean some more, Gunk engine cleaners work okay but I prefer Zep orange cleaner from Home Depot, works better if the engine is warmed first. Thats a start, it's a fairly big job for a novice, but very doable, check back as you proceed there is much more advice to be had from many here.
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Old 06-24-2011, 09:25 PM
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thanks David I figured this was going to be something terminal.

So Best news is spring. Worst news valve is bent & hit piston. Solution pull the head but only one which is good. Stuart there is no doubt if you can install an intake you can pull the head. Call me tomorrow if you want my Haynes or Chilton or both and need any tools. I have a torque wrench. It will take you about 1 1/2 hours longer than the intake did to pull. Call me in the morning there is a pre inspection to ensure you don't have some kind of rocker issue.
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Old 06-25-2011, 07:01 AM
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FWIW, my machinist (engine builder) told me it was OK to reuse my head bolts.
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Old 06-25-2011, 04:59 PM
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I reuse my head bolts also.

When you pull the rockers and push rods, Keep them in order so they can return to their same locations. There are water plugs in the back of the block that help drain it for less mess.

Most of all, put on some good tunes and enjoy yourself.
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