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  #21  
Old 05-06-2021, 11:37 AM
PlumCrazyChris PlumCrazyChris is offline
258 I6
 
Join Date: Jun 03, 2002
Location: Round Rock, Texas
Posts: 349
Great writeup Bob, I can't believe GWs didn't come with these from the factory, at least in their last few years. I hope it tunes up nice for you. I had one on my 83 Cherokee 258, and had plenty of power. Very similar to the 360 in my previous Cherokee. I had problems with my distributor though, I was getting way to much vacuum advance and ended up having to put a stop in the advance plate.

Hope you took to time to replace your water pump and ensure your cooling system is up to scratch before heading to Arizona. Wait til you get there to address the A/C. You can get R12 across the border at La Autozona, for a few bucks a can. or at least you could a few years ago. I had the a/c on my 79 Cherokee repaired over in Progresso one afternoon while a couple friends and I had lunch for $60. It literally froze us out on the way back to Austin.

I've gone through your other thread, and you've really done some great work. I love the seats and door panels etc. and spent money where it does the most good.

Nice job!
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Round Rock, TX
1990 Grand Wagoneer - sold
1983 Cherokee Laredo Limited - sold, and want it back!
1979 Cherokee Chief - sold
1976 Cherokee Chief - sold
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  #22  
Old 05-06-2021, 12:14 PM
babywag's Avatar
babywag babywag is offline
out of order
 
Join Date: Jun 08, 2005
Location: Land of froot loops and cukcoo-nuts, CA
Posts: 9,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticRob
Not much to report other than I had to phone Howell's support guys due to a cold start low / hunting idle issue (~400RPM to almost dying, occasionally dying) I had from initial startup, obviously during open loop operation. Closed loop seemed to work well once the vehicle was warmed up and was obvious when it kicked over to closed loop since it idled so much better.

Anyway, their support guy was quick to answer, and he walked me thru which direction the T20 screw needed to be turned to speed up the cold start idle using the following steps in the manual (which again, is pretty pathetic since it doesn't provide anywhere near enough info).

I borrowed a portable tach and verified 650-700 RPM after screwing in (aka clockwise) that T20 torx screw about 2.5 turns from where it was originally out of the box.

Cold start is now quick and painless, though I have now diagnosed a couple exhaust leaks on the rear of both manifolds, as well as what sounds like lifter tick on the #1 cylinder, which is causing a misfire and subsequent RPM drop of 50-100 RPMs every few seconds. Will troubleshoot that soon as I need it running perfectly to smog it!

Support guy verified I already had vacuum routed correctly (again, the manual wording sucks, and has no pics), and timing at about 15* for Boise altitude sounded good to him. I've used all new vacuum hoses, capped unneeded ports, and used a new EGR and PCV valve.

Idle Air Adjustment Instructions
Before beginning adjustment, grind the throttle stop screw plug, flat and drill into the plug or punch out the cup plug (on some TBI models) to allow a T-20 Torx driver to access the screw.
1. Jumper A&B terminals in the ALDL connector (scanner connector)
2. Turn ignition key on but do not start engine.
3. Disconnect 4-pin idle air control connector from the TBI unit.
4. Remove jumper from ALDL connector.
5. Start engine.
6. While idling, adjust throttle stop screw to increase base idle rpm as desired.
7. Turn engine off.
8. Reconnect idle air control connector.
9. This will complete the adjustment.

You must also check(and correct if needed) TPS base voltage when adjusting minimum idle speed. Needs to be ~.54v
When adjusting for the minimum idle it should be set ~100RPM below the commanded idle speed in .bin

Exhaust leaks will mess with TBI the o2 sensor will read leaner than actual conditions. This causes the ecm to add fuel unnecessarily.
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  #23  
Old 05-06-2021, 12:17 PM
MysticRob MysticRob is online now
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Nov 26, 2019
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 523
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlumCrazyChris
Great writeup Bob, I can't believe GWs didn't come with these from the factory, at least in their last few years. I hope it tunes up nice for you. I had one on my 83 Cherokee 258, and had plenty of power. Very similar to the 360 in my previous Cherokee. I had problems with my distributor though, I was getting way to much vacuum advance and ended up having to put a stop in the advance plate.

Hope you took to time to replace your water pump and ensure your cooling system is up to scratch before heading to Arizona. Wait til you get there to address the A/C. You can get R12 across the border at La Autozona, for a few bucks a can. or at least you could a few years ago. I had the a/c on my 79 Cherokee repaired over in Progresso one afternoon while a couple friends and I had lunch for $60. It literally froze us out on the way back to Austin.

I've gone through your other thread, and you've really done some great work. I love the seats and door panels etc. and spent money where it does the most good.

Nice job!

You and me both, on lack of TBI/EFI in later years. Carbs suck (and used till 1991!), and just too analog and difficult to dial in for both performance and drivability. I'm waiting to get the cash together for a new HEI coil-on-dizzy from ProForm or the like to avoid relying on the antiquated Motorcraft brains and stock dizzy in it now. No idea how old the coil is either, but it looked stock.

Not sure on the water pump age, but it works well enough for now. Trying not to sink too much into it right now, considering I now need to resolve that misfire. I likely won't have enough time to get the A/C working before I head down to AZ, but am hopeful. Won't be much infrastructure where we're headed. Thanks for the kind words on my build, it's coming along slowly, but I'm pretty happy with it now. Seems like it's 2 steps forward, 1 step back lately, considering I'm neck deep in the mechanicals now.
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--Rob--
1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer / Baltic Blue & Tan
2008 BMW 535xi Wagon / Deep Sea Blue & Tan

My build thread:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189245
My Howell TBI Install How-To:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189877
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  #24  
Old 05-06-2021, 01:07 PM
MysticRob MysticRob is online now
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Nov 26, 2019
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 523
Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
You must also check(and correct if needed) TPS base voltage when adjusting minimum idle speed. Needs to be ~.54v
When adjusting for the minimum idle it should be set ~100RPM below the commanded idle speed in .bin

Exhaust leaks will mess with TBI the o2 sensor will read leaner than actual conditions. This causes the ecm to add fuel unnecessarily.

Yeah, Tony, funny how I thought this was going to be a quick and painless install!

With the instruction manual sucking like it does, I'll need to research that TPS base voltage check and adjustment then, unless you can point to something for me.

Marc PM'd me some improved steps for setting the idle earlier today, but I figure I need to get those exhaust leaks and lifter/rocker tick diagnosed and resolved before I can get everything dialed in completely.

Hey, it's running way better than it did with that old suspect carb though!
__________________
--Rob--
1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer / Baltic Blue & Tan
2008 BMW 535xi Wagon / Deep Sea Blue & Tan

My build thread:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189245
My Howell TBI Install How-To:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189877
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  #25  
Old 05-06-2021, 02:38 PM
babywag's Avatar
babywag babywag is offline
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Join Date: Jun 08, 2005
Location: Land of froot loops and cukcoo-nuts, CA
Posts: 9,875
tps should be adjustable,key on engine off, loosen screws rotate tps to desired voltage tighten screws.

to read voltage you'll need an aldl cable & software.
you can buy one(overpriced imho) or grab a $8 usb board.
i recently sent Marc info on cheap usb stuff he may have info handy?

regardless what anybody claims...no such thing as slap it on and go/self tuning blah blah.
It may work, but it won't be 100% and they ALL benefit from "tuning" be it old school burning a chip or changing parameters via touchscreen on the more modern stuff.

once it's dialed in you'll never regret going efi.
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  #26  
Old 05-10-2021, 01:06 PM
MysticRob MysticRob is online now
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Nov 26, 2019
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 523
Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
tps should be adjustable,key on engine off, loosen screws rotate tps to desired voltage tighten screws.

to read voltage you'll need an aldl cable & software.
you can buy one(overpriced imho) or grab a $8 usb board.
i recently sent Marc info on cheap usb stuff he may have info handy?

regardless what anybody claims...no such thing as slap it on and go/self tuning blah blah.
It may work, but it won't be 100% and they ALL benefit from "tuning" be it old school burning a chip or changing parameters via touchscreen on the more modern stuff.

once it's dialed in you'll never regret going efi.

Between you and Marc I should know a lot more about this than I thought I would after I get it all done. Thanks again!
I'm still waiting on my new BJ's 17-8516 Remflex Exhaust Gaskets to arrive, but should get them before I head to CA for a six-week job.
I still need to get into my driver side valve cover to check for obvious issues with what sounds like the #1 cylinder lifter tick and misfire.
__________________
--Rob--
1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer / Baltic Blue & Tan
2008 BMW 535xi Wagon / Deep Sea Blue & Tan

My build thread:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189245
My Howell TBI Install How-To:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189877

Last edited by MysticRob : 05-11-2021 at 07:07 AM.
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  #27  
Old 05-14-2021, 08:30 AM
MysticRob MysticRob is online now
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Nov 26, 2019
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 523
Marc has sent me an adapter he made so I'm looking forward to getting that. I'll run TunerPro and log once I get the exhaust leaks and what I've now identified as a sloppy rocker arm on the #1 cylinder intake valve fixed. The valve ticking is no longer audible past ~1000 RPM, so I'm hoping I can resolve it without tearing down anything else.

I've discovered some other odd things with that diagnosis that I've described in this new thread:

https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189937

I may try to change the exhaust manifold gaskets myself today, just hoping I don't break any bolts off in the heads!
__________________
--Rob--
1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer / Baltic Blue & Tan
2008 BMW 535xi Wagon / Deep Sea Blue & Tan

My build thread:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189245
My Howell TBI Install How-To:
https://ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=189877
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