International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tire Kickin' > General FSJ Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-29-2004, 01:45 AM
Great Pharoah's Avatar
Great Pharoah Great Pharoah is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: May 07, 2002
Location: Horseshoe Bay, Texas
Posts: 763
Angry

I am having a fuel problem, I think. The jeep startes stumbling like it was running out of fuel and it got progressive worse very quickly. I have a clear fuel filter, and I saw very little fuel flow. fuel vent line is blocked. I replace the fuel pump, and ran a shot of air down the fuel line to the tank until I heard bubbling. Put everything back together and it seems worse than ever. Is there something I missed. I'm going to take out the back seat, and pull the inspection port and look at the fuel line at the sender-pickup. Changed the sender-pickup four years ago and replaced all the hoses then. Am I in need of an electric fuel pump. I was looking at the Carter in-line electric pump. I assume the hot line on the pump should go to the run circuit. I have a 360 2bbl, 727, TFI upgrade, electric fan, CS130D alternator. I have more than enough alternator to power a pump, but I would have thought the stock pump would be enough for a 2150 carb. Any thoughts from the group?
mike
__________________
American Jobs should be for Americans.
Some Cheros run at 75, and some do 69,
But if I can get mine to start and run at all, I think I'm doing fine.

Big Mike
"Whoopi" 80 Cherokee Golden Hawk. 360/727/208
Horseshoe Bay, Texas
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-29-2004, 05:01 AM
elvisisdead elvisisdead is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Sep 30, 2004
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 401
Post

It could be that the sock that covers the pickup on the fuel sending unit has become clogged or blocked up. If you're confident that the line is clear, check it out. There was a recent posting about "winter gas" that can stir up crap in the tank and clog the sock that's over the pickup.
__________________
\'91 GW<br />TFI, new shocks, new brakes, rebuilt tranny, resealed transfer case + new actuator, ball joints, fan clutch, heat riser, R exhaust manifold, R head gasket.<br />Daily Driver (as long as it allows itself to be driven)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-29-2004, 06:17 AM
Great Pharoah's Avatar
Great Pharoah Great Pharoah is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: May 07, 2002
Location: Horseshoe Bay, Texas
Posts: 763
Post

That's about all that's left is the sock. I don't use winter gas, such things are not necessary down here in the Austin area. I'm going to roll the back seat up and lift the carpet to get to the inspection hatch and look. If sock is alright then I'll order a Carter electric from Summit, unless the Zone has an alternative.
mike
__________________
American Jobs should be for Americans.
Some Cheros run at 75, and some do 69,
But if I can get mine to start and run at all, I think I'm doing fine.

Big Mike
"Whoopi" 80 Cherokee Golden Hawk. 360/727/208
Horseshoe Bay, Texas
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-29-2004, 08:48 AM
3jeepsdeep's Avatar
3jeepsdeep 3jeepsdeep is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Jan 03, 2002
Location: Portage, IN
Posts: 396
Post

Ripstar -- sorry about the prob you have -- I'm gonna re-post a story I posted several wks ago re a SIMILAR fuel prob I had on 77 CJ7. Story relates what I did / found in between stupid comments from yours truly

E-mail me if you want to talk direct on this(dgfranklin1@tds.net)

goood luck
df
* * * * *

OK here is a true story about troubleshooting a suspected fuel problem on a 27 year old jeep. I arrived at this sophisticated analysis process after checking every engine performance parameter imaginable, twice, then a third time after a new moon, removing the high performance after-market ignition system and reinstalling the stock ignition system (no change - duhhhhhh), and losing my very religion due to creative language skills emitted a high enough volume to interest the neighbors (got 3 dates out of that last week alone). I have to admit that my first inclination was to suspect a fuel supply problem. And after several days of testing and replacing everything else except fuel system components, I still thought it was a fuel supply problem. Duhhhh; note to self - pay attention to the first impressions.

Current situation: Running real crappy especially at high RPM, seems like fuel supply problem (duhhhhh ---- fuel starvation).

Solution: replace fuel filter, take a part carburetor & clean out.
Action: did that stuff
Results: no improvement.

Next Solution: replace fuel pump
Action: did that stuff, eyed carburetor suspiciously and partially disassembled to adjust float level. I remembered to reassemble.
Results: no improvement.

Next Solution: replace carburetor with spare I keep handy for situations like this.
Action: did that stuff. Also knocked the dirt dobber wasp nests out of the spare carburetor before installing
Results: no improvement. Maybe should have left the wasp nests in place.

Next Solution: replace fuel supply & return lines from fuel tank to fuel pump and all rubber hoses (the thinking here is that the suction line just might be corroded enough after 27 years to have developed a breach allowing it to draw air instead of fuel.
Action: congratulated myself for a superb bit of troubleshooting and diagnosis; did all that stuff.
Results: Great troubleshooting and diagnosis process since I DID find a pin-hole in one segment of the fuel line, even if there was no improvement in performance. -- I'm a genius anyway. What did AMC automotive designers know? If they were so great they'd still be in business today. Now might be the appropriate time to mention that when a jeep - or any vehicle except for a VW bug - is positioned up on service ramps and there is some level of unnatural shade present beneath the vehicle. This makes it difficult to actually count the number of steel lines mounted along the frame - or to determine which are fuel lines and which is the fuel tank vent line.

Or the brake line to the rear wheels.

Doesn't really matter tho, 'cause when you get the steel tubing cutting device thingee (technical term) in high gear it cuts through all of them without discrimination.

Next Solution: As long as I've done this much, may as well drop the fuel tank and see what lurks inside..
Action: did all that stuff.
Results: wow. Found the rubber fuel supply hose on the tank outlet had been pinched between the top of the fuel tank and the frame, constricting the flow a bit, I think, since the hose is supposed to be 5/8 inch inside diameter and is now the overall thickness of a human hair. Hmmm, wonder what lurks inside of the fuel tank, since the hose has obviously been pinched a long time and the problem started just recently (I'm discounting the presence of gremlins that may have repositioned and pinched the hose just last week) there might be some other problem - even tho I have already found 2 contributing causes..

Next Solution: remove fuel float/sensor & inlet strainer assembly and apply superior diagnostic skills to evaluate serviceability
Action: did all that stuff.
Results: ****!
This is even better - no worse, actually - than the pinched hose. I couldn't even see thru the fuel strainer (a mesh screen sort-of-thingee on the inlet of the fuel line in the tank). But you really can't see thru them anyway, not even a new one. This one, though, had some kind of mutant sludge completely encasing it. Drained the fuel tank and found more evidence of mutants. Funny thing (yeah, laughing my butt off at this point, I have to tell you), it all looked like that RTV silicone sealer stuff - about 4 tubes worth of mutant gook (technical term for sludge). Confirmed that it probably WAS RTV after the mutant gook was exposed to air for 849 seconds and congealed just like RTV does). Removed all mutant gook. Replaced strainer. Cleaned fuel tank, reinstalled fuel tank, filtered gas and refilled 7.32568 gallons of gasoline now free of mutant sludge. Started vehicle, runs sweet!

Can't move it until I replace brake line, though. ****it.

Next Activity (done with solutions to initial problem, you notice - at least I think I am): wait until new brake line is delivered. Did I mention that this brake line is "Special"? How could I forget that? Seven feet and 3.127563 inches long and different size compression fittings on each end. OK, now I know why AMC is no longer in business. One can't find this stupid-*** line in the neighborhood Autozone (or any other Autozone across the nation - I tried them all) or simply order the replacement steel line, or for that matter the entire set of replacement steel brake lines (which if similar to the steel fuel lines could develop pinhole breaches after being in service -- no after being installed for 27 years). Oh, no - but one CAN order the entire set of replacement brake lines in STAINLESS STEEL with the spiral STAINLESS STEEL wire wrap along the full length to protect it from the people I run over. Like I care how it looks underneath w
Actions: ordered the stupid stainless brake line set and waited for delivery, then took a part time job to pay the bill. Installed the new line.

This is a good time to talk about gravity. When one is on one's back under a vehicle that is elevated on service ramps, gravity still works, and since one is probably facing upward where yon vehicle rests one can see gravity working. Yup, every rust flake, paint chip, and morsel of dried cat crap that got sprayed under the vehicle when one drove it from the barn 3 weeks ago to troubleshoot in the garage and happened to drive thru a clump of cat waste left by at least one of the neighbor's 239.5 stray friggin' cats - that stuff that is temporarily resting on the underside of the vehicle will dislodge due to minor variances in the earth's rotation and will then obey the law of gravity to come to rest in one's eyes; or ears, or in the case of cat crap -- in the mouth.



I hate cats.

They planned this whole thing! I didn't think they were this smart at all - conniving, yes - smart, no. Probably squeezed 3 tubes of RTV into the jeep gas tank, too - after stealing them from my toolbox. Bastards. Did the pin hole in the fuel line, too, I bet. Maybe pinched that rubber hose as well.



Results: 1) Test drive to gas station was a success, full tank of gas did not fall out of the vehicle, barbequed cat does not taste anything like chicken and it takes 8 mature cats to feed a family of five.

2) worst part, I didn't get to buy any cool new tools to complete this project.
__________________
77 CJ7, 304 ("Sluggo" DD, 40k miles; past project)
83 Cherokee, 258 ("Taz" -retired 8/05, 219k miles; 'donor for J10')
83 Wagoneer, 360 ("Balrog" sold '96)
84 J10, 258 ("Bluto" - project, almost friggin done)
2000 Cherokee XJ, 4.0L (small project)
JD317 (buzz) Hot Rod lawn tractor
big pile of parts from all above
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-29-2004, 11:43 AM
Great Pharoah's Avatar
Great Pharoah Great Pharoah is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: May 07, 2002
Location: Horseshoe Bay, Texas
Posts: 763
Post

Well I just pulled the sender. The sock was bent and broken. I put the sender back in and tried again. It didn't have much improvement if any. I'm going to try air pressure thru the fuel line again, but I'm leaning towards a new line, and maybe a Carter electric pump anyway. I just don't see enough fuel in the filter, some but not enough. Can a worn cam cause the mechanical fuel pump to not pump enough fuel?
mike
__________________
American Jobs should be for Americans.
Some Cheros run at 75, and some do 69,
But if I can get mine to start and run at all, I think I'm doing fine.

Big Mike
"Whoopi" 80 Cherokee Golden Hawk. 360/727/208
Horseshoe Bay, Texas
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-30-2004, 01:27 PM
3jeepsdeep's Avatar
3jeepsdeep 3jeepsdeep is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Jan 03, 2002
Location: Portage, IN
Posts: 396
Post

yeah,wear just on the lobe that drives the fuel pump, don't know if this is a common problem or not on older engines. A leak in in the suction side of hte pump (5/8 " dia line) could cause it to draw air instead of fuel.

df
__________________
77 CJ7, 304 ("Sluggo" DD, 40k miles; past project)
83 Cherokee, 258 ("Taz" -retired 8/05, 219k miles; 'donor for J10')
83 Wagoneer, 360 ("Balrog" sold '96)
84 J10, 258 ("Bluto" - project, almost friggin done)
2000 Cherokee XJ, 4.0L (small project)
JD317 (buzz) Hot Rod lawn tractor
big pile of parts from all above
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-01-2004, 02:25 AM
Great Pharoah's Avatar
Great Pharoah Great Pharoah is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: May 07, 2002
Location: Horseshoe Bay, Texas
Posts: 763
Post

I found it. About 6 inches from the pickup, the fuel hose had three cracks in it. Trimmed the hose down, and waa laa, fuel in the filter again. Fuel in the filter means fuel to the carb, and we have ignition. Electric fuel pump still sitting on the bench. I'm thinking I might be wise to replace the old fuel lines with some of that steel braided hose, stuff might last longer, and be easier to deal with than steel line to rubber hose rig. But the Jeep is running well again.
mike
__________________
American Jobs should be for Americans.
Some Cheros run at 75, and some do 69,
But if I can get mine to start and run at all, I think I'm doing fine.

Big Mike
"Whoopi" 80 Cherokee Golden Hawk. 360/727/208
Horseshoe Bay, Texas
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-01-2004, 08:12 AM
sickcat sickcat is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Jan 11, 2002
Location: LA
Posts: 34
Post

Quality fuel line is good for many years unless you have $$$$ burning a hole in your pocket for braided line.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-01-2004, 12:10 PM
jeepzilla47's Avatar
jeepzilla47 jeepzilla47 is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Jun 14, 2003
Location: scranton, sc
Posts: 1,212
Post

hmmm sounds like my prob...will check later
__________________
Mike Hildreth...aka Tubby
"From nothing we have risen, and from nothing, we still rise!!" (Hatebreed)

84 GW in progress
fuel injected 454/th400/203/205/hpd60/ff14b 4.88/welded/4wdb/dbl/39.5 iroks/gm springs/rb shackle flip/ hydraulic assist
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-02-2004, 02:47 AM
Great Pharoah's Avatar
Great Pharoah Great Pharoah is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: May 07, 2002
Location: Horseshoe Bay, Texas
Posts: 763
Post

Sickcat, I don't have that money burning, but I hate taking the tank down to re-do the fuel lines. Did that four years ago and it wasn't any fun at all. If I have to do it again, and I suspect I will, I'd like to use hose that will last longer, so I don't have to do this again for quite awhile.
mike
__________________
American Jobs should be for Americans.
Some Cheros run at 75, and some do 69,
But if I can get mine to start and run at all, I think I'm doing fine.

Big Mike
"Whoopi" 80 Cherokee Golden Hawk. 360/727/208
Horseshoe Bay, Texas
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner