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  #561  
Old 03-30-2022, 10:16 AM
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You kidding, Cranky?! TONS of people read this thread!!!

I am not sure if shrouds were optional or not but I would get one soon. Almost EVERY thread that pops up about a FSJ overheating almost always comes back to either 1) no shroud or 2) the wrong fan or 3) crusty radiator.
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  #562  
Old 03-30-2022, 07:37 PM
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I attempted to check the fit of the new shroud today...it didn't go well.


I'm going to have to trim a bit more around the lower outlet. I think the outlet may be slightly higher then the original because even with the cutout in the shroud I can only get half a hole on the left. So I will need to trim it at least that much but that shouldn't be too big of a deal, just a couple minutes with a die grinder. Other than that clearances seem pretty good, although I may have to lose the shims just because the lower right bolt is so difficult to get started I don't want to remove it completely unless it's unavoidable.
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  #563  
Old 03-31-2022, 10:36 AM
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Like Rang-a-Stang said , there are more than one person following your thread!

If I'm honest , reading your and Rang-a-Stangs summer thread is keeping me in positive spirit and make me work on my J4000 overhaul.
Also the Free-bee thread from Jaber!
But that's because his jeep is the one that is close to what I'm trying to put together!
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Jeep "because mother nature hates flat roads to"

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=180974

99' Dodge ram 2500 4x4 crew cab 5.9 Cummins ,backup work truck for now
73' Jeep J4000 (named Heep or Desert Dragon) amc 360 V8 converted to LPG with T15/D20 (was my daily work truck for thirteen years and is getting major overhaul at the moment!)
80' Jeep cj5 350 V8 Chevy/sm420/D300 project
70/71 Jeep J4000 parts truck with Buick 350

Former vehicles:
85' Volkswagen caddy mk1 1.6 diesel.
83 Toyota land cruiser BJ42 3.4 diesel.
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  #564  
Old 03-31-2022, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crankyolman
I attempted to check the fit of the new shroud today...it didn't go well.


I'm going to have to trim a bit more around the lower outlet. I think the outlet may be slightly higher then the original because even with the cutout in the shroud I can only get half a hole on the left. So I will need to trim it at least that much but that shouldn't be too big of a deal, just a couple minutes with a die grinder. Other than that clearances seem pretty good, although I may have to lose the shims just because the lower right bolt is so difficult to get started I don't want to remove it completely unless it's unavoidable.

I would say you doing good!
Better cutting twice instead cutting off to much.

I had the same with the lower outlet on the alloy radiator and the original fan shroud ,had to make room to have the original shroud fitting on the radiator.
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Jeep "because mother nature hates flat roads to"

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=180974

99' Dodge ram 2500 4x4 crew cab 5.9 Cummins ,backup work truck for now
73' Jeep J4000 (named Heep or Desert Dragon) amc 360 V8 converted to LPG with T15/D20 (was my daily work truck for thirteen years and is getting major overhaul at the moment!)
80' Jeep cj5 350 V8 Chevy/sm420/D300 project
70/71 Jeep J4000 parts truck with Buick 350

Former vehicles:
85' Volkswagen caddy mk1 1.6 diesel.
83 Toyota land cruiser BJ42 3.4 diesel.
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  #565  
Old 04-01-2022, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heep-J4000
I would say you doing good!
Better cutting twice instead cutting off to much.

I had the same with the lower outlet on the alloy radiator and the original fan shroud ,had to make room to have the original shroud fitting on the radiator.


Thank you, yes I'm proceeding with quite a bit of caution on this and prefer to do multiple fittings rather than make a mistake that can't be easily fixed
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  #566  
Old 04-01-2022, 07:19 PM
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I'm glad at least a couple people find my posts worth reading


Today was very busy so I didn't get much done. I did get the areas around the hose connections trimmed.



That required going deeper into the lower back bracket than I really wanted to



but it's not a structural piece so I'm sure it will be fine.


I now have just enough clearance on the outlet




I also realized why the extra trimming is necessary. The original outlet is oval where it meets the radiator and the new one is round, thereby requiring more clearancing.



That done I removed the fan and did another fit check



Even without the spacers there is quite a bit more room at the bottom than with the original radiator, and although it doesn't look like it, there is plenty at the top as well. I knew going into this that the old radiator wasn't quite the same so expected some variances. I will probably be using some sealant or rubber seal at the bottom to fill some of that gap but it's not all that terrible.


Then while the fan was off I began fitting it to the ring. My estimate of 1/2" clearance was pretty spot on



With clearance that close centering it is pretty important . My solution was to mark 1/2" on some pieces of cardboard, then tape them to the blades.



and place the fan back in the ring



It was now centered so I secured it to the ring with more tape






and installed it in the truck



Then used a fine tipped sharpie marker to mark where the ring needs mounted.



If you look real close you can see the marker marking the circle for the ring.


I was pretty much spot on on that all along but it's nice to be absolutely certain


Then I started laying out my rivet pattern and made a filler piece for the top



My goal for tomorrow is to figure out how to make the top half of the ring removable to make it easier to install the fan, then get all the trimming, drilling and painting done. Hopefully Sunday I will get it all riveted together, I think I've decided to go ahead and double flush the rivets so they don't show. Hopefully Monday or Tuesday I will get it permanently installed and properly tested.
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  #567  
Old 04-02-2022, 07:05 PM
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Today I didn't make as much progress as I would have liked. Mostly because things were very busy but partly because I decided to complicate things by making the entire ring removable and hopefully look nice. So most of my free time was spent working on that.



I took pictures but they don't look like much, basically just brackets clecoed to parts but here they are.


This was while they were still roughly shaped.





The idea is there will be 4 brackets on each half and 4 brackets on the flat part. Where the two halves meet will be one bracket shared by each half. The lower hlaf will have 2 nutplates to secure each half to the fixed bracket and to each other. The other brackets on the fixed plate will have nutplates so the ring is removable.



This picture might give you the idea. There is a bracket on the ring with a hole for a bolt and a bracket on the plate with a nutplate.



It's really pretty simple.



Once I had all that figured out, and drilled I cut them to shape and rounded the corners and they were all done.









I didn't get any pictures of it after that but once that was done I started drilling holes for rivets and refining the final shapes but didn't get very far before the chaos began, which kept me busy for the rest of the day.


I'm not sure how far I will get tomorrow, hopefully I'll get all the holes drilled, maybe countersunk and everything to it's final shape and trimmed, maybe if everything goes well I can get it painted but we'll have to see how things go. That will mean it won't be until probably next weekend that I get it installed, but that's OK I have time.
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  #568  
Old 04-03-2022, 06:03 PM
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Today was another busy day but I did get a little time to work on the shroud.

I managed to get the final cuts made so everything is it's final shape, the biggest thing was the opening, which got a lot of refinement.

I also got all the holes drilled



The next step was to counter sink all those holes...twice, front and back. Normally on this sort of project I would use what's referred to as a "suicide" countersink, which is a threaded shaft with no cage or stop but figured I may as well use a proper countersink cage since I have them.



A cage is a guard with a depth stop. In theory once you set one up your good to go for all holes. In reality stuff can be curved or flexes making the depth of the countersink different. Some parts have corners that the cage can't get into and it can be time consuming to set up and sometimes while you are working the set depth can change for various reasons resulting in problems.

Here is an example of test holes




See that giant countersink at the bottom right, it was drilled with no adjustment between countersinking it and the one to the left of it and the one to the left of that. Something like that can easily destroy days worth of work and seriously complicate your life if it happens at the wrong time. Once you get accustomed to using a suicide it's amazingly easy to get the correct depth every time.

Depending on the rivet the correct depth can be slightly high




slightly low or perfectly flush




This type of rivet is usually shot perfectly flush but is often left slightly high then shaved after shooting. None of this is all that critical on this particular piece particularly since I do have a rivet shaver and my plan at the moment is to reverse shoot them, then shave them.

Reverse shooting is where you put the head on the back side, buck the head and drive the tail instead of the more common way of driving the head and bucking the tail. This can give you a bit cleaner look if done correctly and the countersink doesn't have to be perfect. It's also easier to do when you are by yourself and the bucking bar can be set flat on a table, freeing up the hand you would normally use for bucking to help hold the gun...although I'm hoping I can do all of this with a squeezer, rather than a gun.

Anyway, once I got the cage set up I countesank all the holes, except those that were too tight against things like brackets, those I had to suicid.



Next I started dissembling everything, deburring and prepping for paint, but ran out of time so that is something for next weekend. The next step is to finish deburring then prime, then paint, then assemble then prime and paint again...maybe I'll assemble after priming and before painting but I want to maximize corrosion resistance.
I can see the light at the end of the tunnel now so it should only be one more weekend an my truck will finally have a fan shroud.
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  #569  
Old 04-06-2022, 08:43 PM
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Crankyolman Crankyolman is offline
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I only made a little progress today... at least it seems that way.


I completely disassembled the shroud being very careful to keep everything organized so it would be easy to reassemble. Then I located and drilled the holes for the nutplates. Then I deburred everything and cleaned and prepped for paint and primed it.






Once it was dry I resembled everything and discovered that in spite of my best efforts I somehow got the brackets in the wrong order It took about 45 minutes to figure out the right locations and get it all clecoed back together.

Hopefully tomorrow I'll begin riveting it all together, who knows maybe I'll even get all the riveting done. There really isn't all that much left
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  #570  
Old 04-07-2022, 07:25 PM
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Today was a good day I made a lot of progress. beginning with installing the nutplates which is easy and pretty straight forward...although I do it a little unconventionally, using a hammer, punch and bucking bar


I begin by placing the rivet in the bracket




Place it on the bucking bar and place the nutplate on it.



Hold everything in place, place the punch on the rivet tail and hit it once with the hammer.



and the rivet is set



easy as that


Do it one more time and the nutplate is set



Once that was done on all the brackets it was time to start setting the bigger rivets.
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  #571  
Old 04-07-2022, 07:39 PM
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Bigger rivets are a little more complicated. To begin with I only had one length which was too long for all but a few of the holes






There is such a thing as a special rivet cutter but my solution is to just cut them with a pair of dykes



The trick is to correctly guess the correct length which is something like 1.5 the diameter of the rivet sticking out. The reason for this is first the rivet drives straight and this gives you the correct size tail once driven. Since I'm double countersinking I can fudge that a little, as long as I can drive them straight then I can shave them afterwards.


Now as far as shooting, I could have actually used the hammer method in a pinch, or a rivet gun, which is noisy but I had a third option...


One of these




Which weighs a ton but is much quieter and not terribly difficult but can't reach everywhere. Fore those harder to reach places I used this



Which weighs 2 tons and is much more difficult to use but still better than a gun or hammer. and that got everything done



Then some minor cleanup and repriming and you can barely tell it's riveted together



Tomorrow I should get it painted and then it should be ready to mount
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  #572  
Old 04-07-2022, 10:41 PM
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That, is seriously, the most intricate shroud I have ever seen. Looks like it was removed from a WWII air craft! Well done!
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  #573  
Old 04-08-2022, 05:48 AM
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Crankyolman Crankyolman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rang-a-stang
That, is seriously, the most intricate shroud I have ever seen. Looks like it was removed from a WWII air craft! Well done!


Thank you,


It does doesn't it, especially with that green-gray primer I used. The final color will match the engine, which as everybody probably already knows isn't blue
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  #574  
Old 04-08-2022, 11:48 AM
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Heep-J4000 Heep-J4000 is offline
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Man this fan shroud looks beefy!
I'm almost jealous on you about your Jeep having such cool and sturdy build part.

This is ways better looking than the original stock shroud!
I really hope it's going to fit as you intended and doing the job perfect!

You have really cool rivet tools!
Are these from your day job ,or from a former work place?
What kind of other old school tools do you have?
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Jeep "because mother nature hates flat roads to"

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=180974

99' Dodge ram 2500 4x4 crew cab 5.9 Cummins ,backup work truck for now
73' Jeep J4000 (named Heep or Desert Dragon) amc 360 V8 converted to LPG with T15/D20 (was my daily work truck for thirteen years and is getting major overhaul at the moment!)
80' Jeep cj5 350 V8 Chevy/sm420/D300 project
70/71 Jeep J4000 parts truck with Buick 350

Former vehicles:
85' Volkswagen caddy mk1 1.6 diesel.
83 Toyota land cruiser BJ42 3.4 diesel.
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  #575  
Old 04-08-2022, 07:14 PM
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Crankyolman Crankyolman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heep-J4000
Man this fan shroud looks beefy!
I'm almost jealous on you about your Jeep having such cool and sturdy build part.

This is ways better looking than the original stock shroud!
I really hope it's going to fit as you intended and doing the job perfect!

You have really cool rivet tools!
Are these from your day job ,or from a former work place?
What kind of other old school tools do you have?


Thank you,

It is a pretty beefy shroud, much beefier than necessary but that's what happens when you use salvaged parts to make stuff

I certainly hope it works as intended but really when it comes to it the truck does better just having the new radiator so I think it won't take a terrible lot to get that last little bit I need to make it through two or three stop lights...or the line at the drive thru.

Yes the squeezers belong to the shop where I work. We have a lot of tools for metal working, although most of my own tools are old school, like my 1/2 inch arm breaker drill. At work we have an electric metal sheer as well as a manual sheer, a roller, two brakes, as well as a small combination roller/sheer/brake, fairly large bandsaw, a belt sander, combination belt/disc sander, 3 different size drill presses, a big shop press (that I used for pressing apples last year ) a sand blaster, 2 bench grinders and a TIG welder and various other metal working tools, as well as all the various hand tools to do repairs as needed. One of the most important things is having a boss who doesn't mind me using them when things are slow or on my own time.
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  #576  
Old 04-08-2022, 07:34 PM
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Today was one of those days where the deification hit the rotary oscillator straight off the bat and continued on a downhill slide all day. I was certainly glad to see the end of this day.

In the course of the day I might have gotten a cumulative 15 minutes of free time, which I utilized to paint the shroud to match the engine.




Once that was dry I salvaged a bit of expired sealant and used it to add a bit of cushioning at the top where it gets a bit closer than I would like to the radiator

That will prevent any metal to metal contact if for some reason the gap should get closed up.
Although that was all I accomplished today I believe it is enough to call it ready to install. Hopefully tomorrow I will get it installed, and possibly test it out
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  #577  
Old 04-09-2022, 07:04 PM
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Today was another terrible day at work with very little free time, however I didn't need a whole lot of free time just a little bit.

In the little bit I got I assembled the shroud on the bench to check everything one last time.



and installed it in the truck for the last time


There is a little bit more gap at the bottom than I would prefer but if it becomes an issue I can fix that, but I doubt it will be an issue.

When I got home from work I did a test. I sat idle in drive for 11 minutes without going anywhere. At first the temp climbed to 195, then dropped to 192, climbed up to 194 and sat there for 7 minutes then increased to 195 for the other 3 minutes.



Indicated on the original gauge that looks like this


If it reaches the right side of the E it's overheating. Some day I might try to replace the temperature sending unit but it's not a priority.
I think given this test I can rely on it through the most severe driving conditions...sitting in line at the coffee stand
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  #578  
Old 04-10-2022, 03:42 PM
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Today I did some more testing and am happy to report the truck passed every test with flying colors, including the hill climb and the latte test, where I sat in the line at the coffee place, then waited while they made a latte for my wife The temp while waiting bounced between 194 and 195, immediately dropped to 192 as soon as I started moving again and continued to drop to 188 while driving.

I've noticed it seems to be running cooler under all driving than it did without the shroud.
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  #579  
Old 04-11-2022, 11:50 AM
rallison203 rallison203 is offline
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Silly question. But why do you have a boost meter and AFR meter on a 72 Jeep J4500?

Am I missing something?
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  #580  
Old 04-11-2022, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rallison203
Silly question. But why do you have a boost meter and AFR meter on a 72 Jeep J4500?

Am I missing something?


Back in April of 2019 I installed a Fitech 2 barrel fuel injection. It has a hand held controller that sits in a little holder I made that hooks onto the glove box and after having some issues a while back I like to keep an eye on those things to make sure everything is doing what it's supposed to especially when I'm testing something like a new alternator or fan shroud The boost tells me vacuum, which is why it's a negative number.
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