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Factory J20 5/4 ton???

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  • Factory J20 5/4 ton???

    I found a site listing the M715 at a curb weight of 5,500lbs with a GVWR of 8,400:
    http://www.geocities.com/matt99tj/Kaiser.htm

    J20s have been documented here as having up to 8,400GVWR.

    This M715 info raises an interesting question, if these following specs (which appear to be from a TSM) are accurate and the M715 is known as a 5/4 ton and it's GVWR is 8,400lbs then the 8,400GVWR J20 should be considered a 5/4 ton also? I know that many consider the J20 to be only a 3/4 ton in all it's ratings... but this info appears to contradict that:

    CURB WEIGHT, FULLY EQUIPPED LESS PAYLOAD AND CREW, FRONT AXLE 2800 LBS.
    CURB WEIGHT, FULLY EQUIPPED LESS PAYLOAD AND CREW, REAR AXLE 2700 LBS.
    TOTAL CURB WEIGHT, BOTH AXLES 5500 LBS.
    PAYLOAD* CROSS COUNTRY LIMITED** 2500 LBS.
    PAYLOAD* HIGHWAY 3000 LBS.
    GROSS WEIGHT, FULLY EQUIPPED, PLUS PAYLOAD AND CREW, FRONT AXLE 3000 LBS.
    GROSS WEIGHT, FULLY EQUIPPED, PLUS PAYLOAD AND CREW, REAR AXLE 5400 LBS.
    TOTAL GROSS WEIGHT, BOTH AXLES 8400 LBS.
    TOWED LOAD ALLOWANCE, CROSS COUNTRY 2840 LBS.
    TOWED LOAD ALLOWANCE, HIGHWAY 3590 LBS.

    Whatch'all think? Am I cracked? (you don't have to answer that )

    Here's the VIN Tag on Jeff's '75 SRW J20 showing the 8,000lb GVWR (should classify this as a one ton):


    The dually's were rated up to 8,600 and the heaviest was the 3406Z w/327 V8 & Stakebed which weighed in at a curb of 4,897lbs (approx payload of 3,703lbs and about 800lbs more then the M715):


    The VIN for the '79 J20 I parted for my project (J9A46YN083004) breaks down as a 8,400 rated truck. Figure a heavy J20 might weigh 5,000lbs, that would be a payload of 3,400lbs (400lbs over the M715's rating). I'll try to get a pic of the VIN tag.

    Can anyone with an M715 TSM validate the above specs?

    Maybe, by today's standards the M715 is really only in the 3/4 ton range? The '98-99 4x4 HD F250 has a payload capacity of 3,595lbs. Not sure how to slice this, maybe the heaviest duty J20 just matches up with a current F250 after all, or all of today's rigs are far under rated for their capacity (which is what I think the real case is here, since a ton is a constant in all these payload equations).
    Would any M715 owner hesitate to put 1 1/4 ton in their beast? I doubt it, and in fact I've seen a pic of one with a Willys in the bed that looked like the rig hardly cared it was back there.

    [ September 19, 2004, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: Elliott ]
    *** I am collecting pics and info on any factory Jeep Dually trucks from the J-Series at the new Jeep Dually Registry.
    ***I can set you up with hydroboost for your brakes: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=106056

  • #2
    actually I see where there is a 230 OHC dual wheel 4 speed model 1962-1964 rated at 9000 lbs;
    that being said, I am confused as to what you are actually asking

    Comment


    • #3
      Well, some would say that the J20s were never rated over 3/4 ton.
      I think the duallys are clearly one ton+ rated, and that even the SRW J20 with 8,000-8,400GVW are one ton to 5/4+ ton rated respectively.

      I'm throwing this out there 'cause I'm wondering if I'm missing something... if you look at current specs for "one ton" or "3/4" GM or Ford it confuses things.

      If you go by payload it certainly looks like an 8,400 GVW J20 is rated at over 5/4 ton... makes me wonder why J20s only get refered to as 3/4tons I guess. Some were clearly rated higher then the M715 SRW.
      *** I am collecting pics and info on any factory Jeep Dually trucks from the J-Series at the new Jeep Dually Registry.
      ***I can set you up with hydroboost for your brakes: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=106056

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by hagar:
        actually I see where there is a 230 OHC dual wheel 4 speed model 1962-1964 rated at 9000 lbs;
        that being said, I am confused as to what you are actually asking
        I don't think that 9,000 GVW is in a TSM is it?
        8,600 is the max in my '66 TSM.
        *** I am collecting pics and info on any factory Jeep Dually trucks from the J-Series at the new Jeep Dually Registry.
        ***I can set you up with hydroboost for your brakes: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=106056

        Comment


        • #5
          The parts manual shows a 1962-1964 fifth digit designator in the VIN as "H" which is for the dual wheel, 230, 4 speed, 9000 GVW;
          the "G" shown for those years is 230 3 speed 8000 GVW
          D = 8600 w/ 4 speed and dual wheels
          FYI

          [ September 19, 2004, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: hagar ]

          Comment


          • #6
            So my SRW would be more like a 1 ton than 3/4, or do I need to check the axles individually and do the math from there. This bed looks very stout...
            Jeff


            43 cj2a

            51 Willys p/u
            '51 Willys Parkway Conversion
            '74 CJ5
            '75 J-20 Wrecker
            '75 J-20 Cummins service bed
            '77 J-10 p/u
            '79 Cherokee
            '88 Grand Wagoneer
            http://s252.photobucket.com/albums/hh14/jeffaber/

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by hagar:
              The parts manual shows a 1962-1964 fifth digit designator in the VIN as "H" which is for the dual wheel, 230, 4 speed, 9000 GVW;
              the "G" shown for those years is 230 3 speed 8000 GVW
              D = 8600 w/ 4 speed and dual wheels
              FYI
              Thank you sir, I had seen that come up in one other place and thought it had possibly been a typo as opposed to having come from the parts manual.
              BTW, that is consistent with the last FC 170 DRW.

              Jeff, subtract your vehicle weight from your 8,000 GVWR and that's your payload capacity (depending on how heavy you are and what else you stack in the cab)
              You've go overloads on there too so they probably make up for the bed/boom's weight.

              [ September 19, 2004, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: Elliott ]
              *** I am collecting pics and info on any factory Jeep Dually trucks from the J-Series at the new Jeep Dually Registry.
              ***I can set you up with hydroboost for your brakes: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=106056

              Comment


              • #8
                According to my M715's dash data plate:

                Weights - Empty - Cross country - Highway

                Payload - --------- - 2500 - 3000

                Front axle - 2800 - 2800 - 2800

                Rear axle - 2700 - 5200 - 5700

                Total lbs - 5500 - 8000 - 8500

                [ September 19, 2004, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: Mikel ]
                1969 M715 6x6
                1963 J300 Swivel frame

                Comment


                • #9
                  That verify's what I pulled off that guy's web page Mikel, thanks.
                  *** I am collecting pics and info on any factory Jeep Dually trucks from the J-Series at the new Jeep Dually Registry.
                  ***I can set you up with hydroboost for your brakes: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=106056

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Elliot
                    I can mail you a copy of the page(s) if you like.
                    pm your address or email to: johnson3we@aol.com
                    Jim

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      My old '83 J20 had the #8400 rating. Sure rode like a 1 ton.
                      N4ZYV

                      I ain't giving up. I've worked hard, it took me years to work my way to the bottom.


                      1998 Cherokee Sport (not maroon! Have history with maroon XJs)
                      1937 Chevy pickup (in progress)
                      1966 Mustang
                      1937 IH D2

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by hagar:
                        Elliot
                        I can mail you a copy of the page(s) if you like.
                        pm your address or email to: johnson3we@aol.com
                        Jim
                        You have mail.

                        Rande, kind of like riding on rails isn't it? When I got my chassis the only clue I had was that it had a fifth wheel set up which had been removed. When I mounted the bed, cab, engine, tranny, Tcase and front end while the springs never seemed to move... I started to wonder what was up since there were only three leaves and I think the rear leaves are longer then regular JTruck springs (not sure on that). Just got the VIN awhile back and found it was rated at 8,400lbs. Hoping my 40x17 Ground Hawgs will absorb some of the pounding!
                        *** I am collecting pics and info on any factory Jeep Dually trucks from the J-Series at the new Jeep Dually Registry.
                        ***I can set you up with hydroboost for your brakes: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=106056

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I HAVE A 1984 J-20 8400# 11 LEAFS IN THE REAR SPRING PACKS,401 BUILT AND BLUEPRINTED,727 HIGH STALL CONVERTER,208 TRANSFER CASE PULLING TRUCK.

                          I HAVE A 1985 J-20 8400# 3 LEAFS IN THE REAR SPRING PACKS,401 BUILT AND BLUEPRINTED,T-18,208
                          TRANSFER CASE.

                          MARK

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Again, the 3/4-ton and 1-ton ratings are more marketing terms than engineering or payload terms.

                            The 5/4-ton truck just designated a set of specifications that the Army would send out for a category of vehicles it used. The 5/4-ton Dodge M880 trucks used Civilian 3/4-ton running gear, while the Chevy CUCV's used 1-ton running gear in order to meet the Army's requirements for their 5/4-ton trucks. The D60/D70 combo on the M715 was equivalent to a 1-ton running gear in that day, but it is probably no stronger than the later J-20 running gear. The J-20 would certainly outpull the M715, though, in load and towing-capacity.
                            1987 J-20
                            Video projects for my J-20 on Youtube

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bob Barry:
                              The J-20 would certainly outpull the M715, though, in load and towing-capacity.
                              Not sure about absolute load, but a J20 with front disk brakes and anything other than the mighty fire breathing 230 would be a FAR better vehicle for towing [img]smile.gif[/img]
                              1969 M715 6x6
                              1963 J300 Swivel frame

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