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  #41  
Old 12-03-2003, 03:56 PM
1BAD401 1BAD401 is offline
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I'll give my .02 cents. You can see my 401 specs in my sig. I have a family friend that bought my brothers wag and put about $4000 into a 360.

Awesome head job, ported/polished
10 to 1
bored 30 over
Crane 270 cam
Edelbrock intake
Headmen longtube headers
Holley Street Avenger 670
True duel 2.5 inch with Dynomax mufflers
2500 TCI stall
3.31 gears and 31" tires

Anyway we haven't ran them yet but I've been in both and my 401 has more grunt and seems to pull in the mid rpms better. We also g-tech'd both:

I ran a 15.60 @ 93mph
He ran a 16.10 @ 89mph

I'll take a 401 over the 360 anyday...... [img]tongue.gif[/img]
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401 bored .030, 9.5:1 comp, Edelbrock 750 carb, Edelbrock Performer Intake, 260 Crane Cam, Headman Headers, Mallory Ign, Turbo 400 (Full-Bearing) with B&M Shift-Kit, 2 1/2\" Dual Exhaust, Rancho 5000s, Rear Sway Bar
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  #42  
Old 12-03-2003, 04:17 PM
gearhead77 gearhead77 is offline
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I found a 401 for $900 (no guarantee)
yeah I'm still looking.
Theres no substitute for cubes,but you have to feed em' and high compression 10 to 1 or less I say. There is more to this formula. Who has my engine?
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  #43  
Old 12-03-2003, 10:22 PM
imported_horsepuller imported_horsepuller is offline
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1BAD401: What is the gearing in your 79 Cherokee Chief? 3.31 gears and 31" tires on your friend's wag isn't an optimal combination for power off the line.
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  #44  
Old 12-04-2003, 01:05 AM
1BAD401 1BAD401 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by horsepuller:
1BAD401: What is the gearing in your 79 Cherokee Chief? 3.31 gears and 31" tires on your friend's wag isn't an optimal combination for power off the line.
3.56 and 31" tire with stock stall
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  #45  
Old 12-04-2003, 12:45 PM
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I can see it now:

"Worn out 401 blows Caddy 500 into the weeds!"

I got a kick out of this post over on the general discussion board and sure didn't want'cha to miss it:

4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado
Member # 5850
posted December 04, 2003 05:12 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We mud raced on in the mid 80's.
It was a '76 J-10 frame, with a 80 Ford Courier body, T-400 with a 205. Ford 9 inch in the rear with disks. Dana 60 out of a 1 ton Chev in the front with 7.13 gears fronts and rears. Lifted about 2 feet.

We had a 401 balanced and blue printed, Jahn's pistons 13.5 to 1 comp ratio with moly rings. .030 shaved heads, so I would guess about 14-15 to 1 final comp ratio. Reliefed pockets, ports heavily ported both intake and exhaust. We put them on a flow bench, I cant remember the numbers, but everyone was impressed. Had 7/16 studs installed with push rod guide plates. We also had the valves undercut on the stems and swirled.

306 duration cam with .575 int. .600 exh.
Victor intake, with a predator carb, with a 250 hp N.O.S. setup

The truck sit on 4 foot Kubotata tractor tires.

Ita had a lot of other mods I wont go into. Back then nothing would touch it. They paid us to put on intermissions at monster truck shows. and it was the No.1 ranked truck in about 4-5 states. It was called The Mud Puppy if anyone remembers.

I did not own it but painted it and kept it looking good, also was the pit crew help. It was owned by 4 of my good friends.

We had a lot of fun in those days! We had custom headers going straight up out of the hood and when the exhaust came out the tips under full throttle with the Nitrous on, there was 8 awesome blue flames about 8-10 inches coming out. The crowds always loved it! The monster truck guys would come by in the pits and ask to see our big block chev. in our mud truck. We would laugh and show them our 401 rambler engine! They always were surprised! They were all pro's and they new engines. They would guestimate 700-900 hp.

We were never able to get it on a DYNO but it sure spun those Kobota tires!!LOL

I dont think anyone ever put a dime out of there pockets into that truck. It was only fixed up with the money it won. That is the funnest racing!

Then about 87-88, guys started building ultra lights with blown big blocks that floated across the mud like you see em do now. Since our truck had to run down and thru the mud, we could no longer keep up. These guys were investing huge $$$ into there rigs and since we were just a bunch of poor guys out to have a good time, we just gave up! Those were some of the funnest times of my life. Oh memories!!


[ December 08, 2003, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: Elliott ]
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  #46  
Old 12-04-2003, 01:18 PM
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Crazy_Jeepman Crazy_Jeepman is offline
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LMAO!!! This whole topic has become the FUNNIES section of the Sat Paper. Just so we are all on the same page, I took the ORIGINAL question as being what the differance was between the 360 and the 401 as it was put in a JEEP, not pulled from a Police Interceptor, stuffed full of go fast parts or the such. Differance between the 360 and 401 as it was stuffed into Jeep? I still say NOT MUCH. Did I own a 401 powered Jeep.........Yes several, but no AMC 401 powered cars, must be they had the secret parts that makes the driver feel like he is GOING WITH THE FORCE.

Will a 401 blow a Caddy 500 into the weeds? Could be, but my question really is: who's 500 is getting blown in the weeds? Not Mine....I always thought the Jeep was kinda the wrong type of vehicle to race, but each to his own. I doubt my rig to be fast at all, never knew it was supposed to be. I kinda was building the 500 for just off idle torque, for 4 wheeling and trail riding. Sure hope I am not wrong on that, I would hate to have to start all over again. I am not selling the Caddy as engine of the year, nor do I remotely have the love for the 401 as some do, and thats the way the cookie crumbles. AMC sure could have used a few more forums and topics like this one............Maybe AMC would still be building Ugly Cars and the Liberty. Build your Jeeps the way you like em, put what you want in them, Jeep hard have fun. If I run into anmore wore out 401's I will be sure to....................
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  #47  
Old 12-04-2003, 01:29 PM
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More 401... from the Mud Puppy:

Burnip's Crusher and Mud Puppy's Revenge

Carl Lynn
Burnips, Michigan

Carl first had a truck called Mud Puppy which had tractor tires on it when he mud bogged with Jeff and the Bush Hog in the late 80's. He then turned the truck into Burnip's Crusher with monster truck tires. Last 1992 he renamed the truck Mud Puppy's Revenge. The truck is now ??

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  #48  
Old 12-04-2003, 02:08 PM
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Retro93 Retro93 is offline
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All this talk about 401's being superior. I find it interesting considering that other than the forged steel crank and rods, it is just a bored/stroked 360. All the problems common to other AMC engines are still present...[poor oiling for one]. It wasn't a quantum leap forward in engine technology....just a larger version of a barely acceptable design. It's only really useful if you want to put a larger c.i. displacement engine in your rig without going through the hassle of a swap.
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  #49  
Old 12-05-2003, 01:24 AM
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Crazy_Jeepman Crazy_Jeepman is offline
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Hmmm Not even that hot in the Javelin Adds [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Advertisement for the STOMPING MASHING 401
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  #50  
Old 12-05-2003, 01:49 AM
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jeepsr4ever jeepsr4ever is offline
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Buyt retro its all about bore and stroke! The only oiling issue in a AMC V8 is when the lifters wear and the rear 2 main's oil supply is shut off, These engines were never designed originally for stomping or mashing, they along with their factory camshafts were designed for grunting and mid range power. The cool thing about the 401 is that the peak hp and torque developes at a REALLY low RPM with the right cam.

To clarify my statement here is the bands i call low,mid and high

Low range under 3500
Midrange 3500-5000
High range 5000-up
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  #51  
Old 12-05-2003, 05:10 AM
GRUNT GRUNT is offline
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So tell me how to modify the oiling system and just exactly what kind of cam?
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  #52  
Old 12-05-2003, 10:58 AM
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"a larger version of a barely acceptable design"

I guess that 5 State champion Mud Puppy was just a barely acceptable design blowin' off all the big blocks of the big three by just limpn' long.
FYI, those barely acceptable AMC heads left untouched will out flow Chevy performance heads by a good margin.
I'm pretty sure that no American engine manufacturer had any quantum leaps in design between '74-'78. I'm also pretty sure that anybody not racing an AMC doesn't need any oiling mods and I'm pretty sure that anybody racing the big three are doing oiling mods to their own "barely acceptable designed" big blocks.

It's kind of funny that nobody has ever (that I've heard) disputed the power advantages gained in picking up ~40CI in a 302 by stroking it to a 347.... but low and behold if you add ~40CI to an AMC you probably won't be able to notice it. Well, I've driven some serious torque monsters (Mack turbo MB600 Bull Dog) and some darn fast cars (up to Jag V12) to boot and I don't have a problem feeling the difference between a 401 & 360. Can't explain other's experience, except that when I drove fleet cars for the State I noticed a lot of variance between 1977 Plymouth Interceptors and the same can be said for the '76 Mopars.

Just wondering if you Jeepers actually believe that AMC would put a 215hp 401 in their trucks and wagons and then sell a 255hp 401 to IH?
I think the gap between the 360 and 401 is greater then what you read in Chiltons, maybe the TSM says the same as Chiltons... but it is still highly suspect.

[ December 05, 2003, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: Elliott ]
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  #53  
Old 12-05-2003, 11:13 AM
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thier are alot of great sites for oiling mods on the interent, hammers has some good info, bulltear forums has a dedicated oiling topic area and the AMC forum has lots of articles on oiling. Do a search or check out those areas

Dang you struck a nerve in elliots tooth...LOL
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  #54  
Old 12-05-2003, 11:16 AM
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Just tired of the big block, no replacement for displacement hype. Friggin lil Cosworth Evolution 4cyl turbo cranks out 500hp!
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  #55  
Old 12-05-2003, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Elliott:
Just tired of the big block, no replacement for displacement hype. Friggin lil Cosworth Evolution 4cyl turbo cranks out 500hp!
Well..........You could run a smaller displacement.....If you use 2 of them smaller motors!!! LMAO. [img]tongue.gif[/img] There is no replacement for displacement thats a fact. Forget what it looked like under the hood of the B Model? Sure would look funny with a Cosworth in there. Still though if you wanted too [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] LOL
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  #56  
Old 12-05-2003, 12:15 PM
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I don't think the Cosworth Evolution would be a good match in a Jeep, that wasn't the intent of my statement. Quite sure it would wrap a GN in dust though, the Brits made a pretty big splash with it hooked up to Hewland FGB transaxle in a TVR S race car.
If what you say is true about the displacement then what went so wrong with the Chevy 454 that it was rated at only 240hp/325ftlbs? There were several 401s produced that out performed that, during the same time period.

[ December 05, 2003, 06:26 PM: Message edited by: Elliott ]
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  #57  
Old 12-05-2003, 12:27 PM
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Marvin Gates Marvin Gates is offline
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I have been reading this thread and laughing but now, using fast cars and a Jag V12 in the same sentence is the funniest thing I've heard lately! They are the biggest turkey ever manufactured. HaHaHa
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  #58  
Old 12-05-2003, 12:30 PM
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I think tonight when I go to work, I am going to ask for one of the OLD LTL 9000 over a Sterling............The LTL 9000 has a smaller motor in it.
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  #59  
Old 12-05-2003, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin Gates:
I have been reading this thread and laughing but now, using fast cars and a Jag V12 in the same sentence is the funniest thing I've heard lately! They are the biggest turkey ever manufactured. HaHaHa
Possibly you haven't owned one.
Not fast off the line, it had a 2.88 rear.
How does 120 in 2nd gear sound for slow, with the TH400 my '85 XJS would kick down from 3rd to 2nd at 109mph and I could hold it manually in 2nd up to 120 before slamming 3rd. This is in a 4700lb vehicle rated at only 300hp. What vehicle have you driven that will do 120 in 2nd?
Don't believe me, read the TSM for kick down specs and up shift... 68 mph in 1st for the upshift if your linkage is good.
Turkey? Gets the same mileage as a good running 360. Heavy, yeah... but only people who haven't owned one would call it Turkey. The European models did perform a lot better, especially with the 5sp. That XJS was the closest thing I've ever done to flying a airplane on a highway. How many American cars will do 120 in second gear from the factory? Or where do you think fast begins... probably between zero and 60?

[ December 05, 2003, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: Elliott ]
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  #60  
Old 12-05-2003, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin Gates:
I have been reading this thread and laughing but now, using fast cars and a Jag V12 in the same sentence is the funniest thing I've heard lately! They are the biggest turkey ever manufactured. HaHaHa
Bet if you pulled that V12 out..........Put in a Wore Out 401..........The darn thing would FLY
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