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This is a small write up I sent to a couple friends that have older engines.
I am having some issues with more than one rig here. After several long reads at night here I believe there is something to this. Given that we all have older engines in our FSJ's it applies to just about everyone on these forums. A very bright friend of mine brought this up. I trust his assessment.
Are we slowly killing our older engines? Specifically flat tappet cam engines. After finding some seriously flat cam lobes on the Buick 350 I was rebuilding, and recently discovering the cam is damaged on an inline 4 cylinder inboard boat motor I was having a look at, I realized something is wrong. A friend of mine recently mentioned it is caused by the low zinc and phosphorus (ZDDP) levels in todays modern oils. I trust his assessment and started reading. I was pretty dumbfounded by what I have discovered. There is a large unspoken issue going on. In 2004 the API (American Petroleum Institute) oil rating changed to a SN rating from all previous versions of oil on the market for todays engines. The limit for Zinc was 800 PPM scaled back several revisions even before the change to SN for emissions reasons.
Prior to 1988 API SF specified a minimum of 1500PPM. In 1993 API SG reduced the minimum amount of ZDDP to 1200PPM. It was reduced again to 1000PPM with a SL specification. Lots of zinc stops catalytic converters from working it said. After 2004 with a 800PPM limit from the SM and then a SN specification, a very large amount of flat tappet camshafts experienced failures that was unprecedented more than ever before. Now reading on I found the minimum number you want to see for zinc for a hydraulic flat tappet camshaft is at least 1000 PPM with the same or more content for Phosphorus. They work together in creating the glass like anti wear film needed for longevity.
Modern engines have roller camshafts. And after calling the engine builder to talk about this zinc situation, he stated that the modern oils are still creating issues with modern engines even with roller cams. He said the wrist pins were seeing higher than normal wear. And funny thing is before I had a chance to tell him why I was calling, he said right off, “be sure and run high zinc oil on that 350” Absolutely I will. I then told him why I was calling and my concerns with that very subject. I am now convinced that I have been running the wrong oils in my V-6’s and V-8’s from the 60’s and 70’s. Years ago I switched to Mobil 1 thinking I was making a good move. Mobil 1 is a very good oil. There are a couple types of high zinc oil from mobil 1 and I was not using it. The standard mobil 1 has the reduced zinc just like most other oils with the starburst label and the SN or SM rating. Just for some visual ideas on what is slowly happening to cam shafts and other high pressure components inside older engines.. Here is a very worn failed cam lobe. One of several on this engine.
What about ZDDP additives? Should you use one of the ZDDP additives? Absolutely not. There is not one oil manufacturer that recommends using an additive in there carefully prepared oil. Even added to the high ZDDP oils it has been shown to reduce the effectiveness of wear resistance. It can filter out and for the money it is not worth it. Additives of this type can change the recipe of the oil manufacturer and not for the good sometimes. The best solution is to find a high zinc oil and trust their mix of detergents and additives and components and just run it. An oil with mid range TBN numbers of somewhere in the 5-8 range. TBN is a measure of alkaline additives in oil for the ability to ward off the corrosive effects of acid byproducts of used and aged oil. People who drive just a couple miles to work generate high acidic by products from combustion and should change their oil on a very regular and frequent basis. Longer drives help burn off the byproducts of combustion. So changing the oil and not letting it run long is more important than I ever imagined.
Which oil? There is full on racing oil with really high ZDDP. That has to be good right? Well no. Full on racing oil is not recommended for a daily driver since it is void of the detergents and additives and who knows what else. While high ZDDP it is bad to run all the time over time. There are a few oils that address the need for ZDDP for older engines with the detergents and additives for regular oil change intervals. And check with any and all camshaft manufacturers. They ALL say something about needing high ZDDP oil for their product to last.
. Royal Purple XPR, some versions of Mobil one, 0W40 5W40 and high milage 10W40 (1000 PPM )
Brad Penn, Amsoil Z-rod 10W30, 20W50, Lucas hot rod and classic oil, Red Line Valvoline VR-1 is a great brand with 1300 PPM zinc and 1200 PPM phosphorus.
I have found Valvoline VR-1 to be very reasonable and it has the higher ZDDP levels that will protect my older engines. I am in the process of changing all my older engines over to high ZDDP oils. I will also check lobe lift to see if I have damaged cams. I know my boat has a damaged camshaft. I am not able to find a replacement camshaft for that vintage engine anywhere.
Keep in mind that there is a LOT of information to read about this. There is a ton of attempted debunking of the so called ZDDP myth. Modern oil manufacturers all claim their oils are backwards compatible. If any of it were true, than there would not be higher numbers of camshaft failures happening . I will go with the precaution of high ZDDP oil for my old stuff. I have two flat cams here and that is enough for me. This could be the very reason your once peppy engine is now sluggish and tired.
Be sure to research the oil you might choose carefully. Verify the zinc levels with actual numbers. Don’t take a manufacturers claim that their product is suitable for your older engine without actual numbers. And when you add this oil, shake well for several minutes before adding. Do everything you can to extend the life of your older engine. I didn’t know, now I do….Happy motoring.
I am having some issues with more than one rig here. After several long reads at night here I believe there is something to this. Given that we all have older engines in our FSJ's it applies to just about everyone on these forums. A very bright friend of mine brought this up. I trust his assessment.
Are we slowly killing our older engines? Specifically flat tappet cam engines. After finding some seriously flat cam lobes on the Buick 350 I was rebuilding, and recently discovering the cam is damaged on an inline 4 cylinder inboard boat motor I was having a look at, I realized something is wrong. A friend of mine recently mentioned it is caused by the low zinc and phosphorus (ZDDP) levels in todays modern oils. I trust his assessment and started reading. I was pretty dumbfounded by what I have discovered. There is a large unspoken issue going on. In 2004 the API (American Petroleum Institute) oil rating changed to a SN rating from all previous versions of oil on the market for todays engines. The limit for Zinc was 800 PPM scaled back several revisions even before the change to SN for emissions reasons.
Prior to 1988 API SF specified a minimum of 1500PPM. In 1993 API SG reduced the minimum amount of ZDDP to 1200PPM. It was reduced again to 1000PPM with a SL specification. Lots of zinc stops catalytic converters from working it said. After 2004 with a 800PPM limit from the SM and then a SN specification, a very large amount of flat tappet camshafts experienced failures that was unprecedented more than ever before. Now reading on I found the minimum number you want to see for zinc for a hydraulic flat tappet camshaft is at least 1000 PPM with the same or more content for Phosphorus. They work together in creating the glass like anti wear film needed for longevity.
Modern engines have roller camshafts. And after calling the engine builder to talk about this zinc situation, he stated that the modern oils are still creating issues with modern engines even with roller cams. He said the wrist pins were seeing higher than normal wear. And funny thing is before I had a chance to tell him why I was calling, he said right off, “be sure and run high zinc oil on that 350” Absolutely I will. I then told him why I was calling and my concerns with that very subject. I am now convinced that I have been running the wrong oils in my V-6’s and V-8’s from the 60’s and 70’s. Years ago I switched to Mobil 1 thinking I was making a good move. Mobil 1 is a very good oil. There are a couple types of high zinc oil from mobil 1 and I was not using it. The standard mobil 1 has the reduced zinc just like most other oils with the starburst label and the SN or SM rating. Just for some visual ideas on what is slowly happening to cam shafts and other high pressure components inside older engines.. Here is a very worn failed cam lobe. One of several on this engine.
What about ZDDP additives? Should you use one of the ZDDP additives? Absolutely not. There is not one oil manufacturer that recommends using an additive in there carefully prepared oil. Even added to the high ZDDP oils it has been shown to reduce the effectiveness of wear resistance. It can filter out and for the money it is not worth it. Additives of this type can change the recipe of the oil manufacturer and not for the good sometimes. The best solution is to find a high zinc oil and trust their mix of detergents and additives and components and just run it. An oil with mid range TBN numbers of somewhere in the 5-8 range. TBN is a measure of alkaline additives in oil for the ability to ward off the corrosive effects of acid byproducts of used and aged oil. People who drive just a couple miles to work generate high acidic by products from combustion and should change their oil on a very regular and frequent basis. Longer drives help burn off the byproducts of combustion. So changing the oil and not letting it run long is more important than I ever imagined.
Which oil? There is full on racing oil with really high ZDDP. That has to be good right? Well no. Full on racing oil is not recommended for a daily driver since it is void of the detergents and additives and who knows what else. While high ZDDP it is bad to run all the time over time. There are a few oils that address the need for ZDDP for older engines with the detergents and additives for regular oil change intervals. And check with any and all camshaft manufacturers. They ALL say something about needing high ZDDP oil for their product to last.
. Royal Purple XPR, some versions of Mobil one, 0W40 5W40 and high milage 10W40 (1000 PPM )
Brad Penn, Amsoil Z-rod 10W30, 20W50, Lucas hot rod and classic oil, Red Line Valvoline VR-1 is a great brand with 1300 PPM zinc and 1200 PPM phosphorus.
I have found Valvoline VR-1 to be very reasonable and it has the higher ZDDP levels that will protect my older engines. I am in the process of changing all my older engines over to high ZDDP oils. I will also check lobe lift to see if I have damaged cams. I know my boat has a damaged camshaft. I am not able to find a replacement camshaft for that vintage engine anywhere.
Keep in mind that there is a LOT of information to read about this. There is a ton of attempted debunking of the so called ZDDP myth. Modern oil manufacturers all claim their oils are backwards compatible. If any of it were true, than there would not be higher numbers of camshaft failures happening . I will go with the precaution of high ZDDP oil for my old stuff. I have two flat cams here and that is enough for me. This could be the very reason your once peppy engine is now sluggish and tired.
Be sure to research the oil you might choose carefully. Verify the zinc levels with actual numbers. Don’t take a manufacturers claim that their product is suitable for your older engine without actual numbers. And when you add this oil, shake well for several minutes before adding. Do everything you can to extend the life of your older engine. I didn’t know, now I do….Happy motoring.
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