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  #1  
Old 05-02-2001, 12:50 AM
Crazy_Jeepman's Avatar
Crazy_Jeepman Crazy_Jeepman is offline
Sloppy Shifter
 
Join Date: Jan 16, 2001
Location: Norway Michigan
Posts: 15,996
Question

I feel it to be necessary to change the front axle in my 70 Wagoneer. Due to the fact that the seals are shot at the knuckles, ring and pinion blown, drum brakes ect. ect. I have a lot of axles from various years I was just wondering if anyone knew what years will fit under my 70, save me some guess work and measuring. If I can do this the rear would have to go to 6 lug wheels as well, can I just change the axles to accomplish this? I have a posi. in the rear and would like to leave it alone if I could just change the axles that would be great.

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Making a Career Out Of Restoring My 1979 Jeep J10 360/T18/D20 44s Doing The Turning
And For True Adventure! Driving Daily, An Ugly 70 Wagoneer! Dauntless 350/Th 400/D20/44s. Posi In My Rear. The To Do List Is Longer Than The Wagoneer Is!!!!
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  #2  
Old 05-02-2001, 01:26 AM
River Beast River Beast is offline
 
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Location: Lakewood, Calif
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If I'm not mistaken the Dana 44 rear you have is 5 lug and 19 spline axle shafts.... I dunno if they make a 19 spline axle shaft in the 6-lug... you may have to buy the 'blank' shafts and have the holes drilled for the studs.

The later Dana 44 (6-lug) have 30 spline axle shafts....

The front axle is either a D27 or a D30 closed knuckle type. I have never dealt with the swap-over to disc, but Scotty and Porkchop can help...Porkchop hasd a 67 Waggie the he swapped over to a 79 drivetrain... LOTS of work... motor and all...

------------------
Todd
"River Beast"

14" of total Lift on 39.5" Swampers
44's locked with 4.89's
...and other stuff...
My Original FSJ site
riverbeast@earthlink.net

"When approaching an intersection, remember...
the vehicle with the BIGGEST TIRES has the right of way..."


'93 3/4 ton 4x4 Suburban...a.k.a. "FSJ Hauler"
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  #3  
Old 05-02-2001, 03:31 AM
jeepbob jeepbob is offline
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there is not a D44 frt in 5 lug for the wags but it is possible to put ford parts on the 6 lug D44's to convert then to 5 lug.

------------------
65 wag. 360/edelbrock rb4/t400/20 t-case/4:10 d27/d44 broken power lok/onboard air/onboard 110v power(no inverter)/1999 Lincoln t.c.leather buckets/Lincoln ctr console/winch/33x12.50/tunes/water proof door pads
soon to have new motor/d44frt/d60r(4:10)welded diff/custom bumpers
see ya in da mud
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  #4  
Old 05-02-2001, 05:06 AM
River Beast River Beast is offline
 
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Location: Lakewood, Calif
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jeepbob:
there is not a D44 frt in 5 lug for the wags but it is possible to put ford parts on the 6 lug D44's to convert then to 5 lug.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good info....are the shafts a direct swap...spline count.... and length?



------------------
Todd
"River Beast"

14" of total Lift on 39.5" Swampers
44's locked with 4.89's
...and other stuff...
My Original FSJ site
riverbeast@earthlink.net

"When approaching an intersection, remember...
the vehicle with the BIGGEST TIRES has the right of way..."


'93 3/4 ton 4x4 Suburban...a.k.a. "FSJ Hauler"
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  #5  
Old 05-02-2001, 05:38 AM
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Crazy_Jeepman Crazy_Jeepman is offline
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Join Date: Jan 16, 2001
Location: Norway Michigan
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I am not trying to put a 44 with five lug in the front. I have numerous FSJ fnt 44s laying around, all I wanted to know is as follows: #1 Has anyone switched out the Dana 27 for a 44? If so any problems?
#2 I wan't to change the rear to six lug as well to match the front could I just change the axles to six lug and change the spider and axle gears to match the splines on the six lug axles

------------------
Making a Career Out Of Restoring My 1979 Jeep J10 360/T18/D20 44s Doing The Turning
And For True Adventure! Driving Daily, An Ugly 70 Wagoneer! Dauntless 350/Th 400/D20/44s. Posi In My Rear. The To Do List Is Longer Than The Wagoneer Is!!!!
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  #6  
Old 05-02-2001, 07:53 AM
River Beast River Beast is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 18, 2000
Location: Lakewood, Calif
Posts: 11,642
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<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Crazy_Jeepman:
I am not trying to put a 44 with five lug in the front. I have numerous FSJ fnt 44s laying around, all I wanted to know is as follows: #1 Has anyone switched out the Dana 27 for a 44? If so any problems?
#2 I wan't to change the rear to six lug as well to match the front could I just change the axles to six lug and change the spider and axle gears to match the splines on the six lug axles

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Porkchop did the switch in the front like I said... as for the rear... I believe you need to change the carrier as well as the spiders to swap from 5 lug 19 spline axles to the 6 lug 30 spline axles.

One other thing to remember.. the offset of the diff in the 6 lug dana 44 may be different than the offset of the 5 lug Dana 44...hence, diferent length axle shafts.... I know the 5 lug were the more centered diff, but still offset... but not as much as the 6 lug dana 44's that came behind the QT units from 73-79. There may be some rear 6 lug 44's that will work, but I don't know which ones,,,,

------------------
Todd
"River Beast"

14" of total Lift on 39.5" Swampers
44's locked with 4.89's
...and other stuff...
My Original FSJ site
riverbeast@earthlink.net

"When approaching an intersection, remember...
the vehicle with the BIGGEST TIRES has the right of way..."


'93 3/4 ton 4x4 Suburban...a.k.a. "FSJ Hauler"

[This message has been edited by River Beast (edited May 02, 2001).]
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  #7  
Old 05-02-2001, 09:31 AM
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porkchop porkchop is offline
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Location: Corpus Christi, TX 78414
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I have done the swap from D27 to D44. I put in one from a '79. It is not as easy as you would think. You need to get the brake proportioning valve from the Jeep you are getting the axle from. The one that is in there now will not handle the disc. Also if you don't have power brakes you will need them also. I used all from the '79 few mods needed

As for just changing the axles and the spider gears, it will not work. The older 19 spline carriers are different than the 30 spline. If you try to put the spider gears in the 30 spline carrier they will not fit. The best thing to do is switch the rear gear with the match from the front. That way you know you have the same gearing and the wear and tear is equal.

------------------
'67/'79 Wagoneer mix
"Red"
Check it out!

Mods, Mods, and more Mods! The end is no where in sight, but I am sure I am closer to the fork in the road.
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  #8  
Old 05-02-2001, 12:06 PM
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Crazy_Jeepman Crazy_Jeepman is offline
Sloppy Shifter
 
Join Date: Jan 16, 2001
Location: Norway Michigan
Posts: 15,996
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Thanks Porkchop. this was the info I was after. I have power brakes in the 70 Wag now so I am ahead of the game as far as that goes. I have several complete rolling chassis, so brake parts and matching gearing, etc., is not a problem. However I am partial to the Posi I have in the rear now and was hoping to leave it alone, so this leaves me with the option that "River Beast" suggested "'blank' shafts and have the holes drilled for the studs" this way I could have six lug wheels as I have a mountain of a supply of rims. How would I locate a supplier for blank axles? Next option I guess would be to convert the front to five stud like jeepbob had suggested Thanks for the input on this I will be looking into this further. Any other options? I am all ears! Yes, I know loose the original Posi. So please lets not suggest that one I will carry two spares one in 5 and one in 6 stud first!!


------------------
Making a Career Out Of Restoring My 1979 Jeep J10 360/T18/D20 44s Doing The Turning
And For True Adventure! Driving Daily, An Ugly 70 Wagoneer! Dauntless 350/Th 400/D20/44s. Posi In My Rear. The To Do List Is Longer Than The Wagoneer Is!!!!
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  #9  
Old 05-02-2001, 04:55 PM
jeepbob jeepbob is offline
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Location: Caro, Mi, USA
Posts: 2,513
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I would use the Ford stub shafts to the u-joint then the Jeep shafts the rest of the way. I also did some checking and found that I could use chevy caliper mounts and calipers, Ford spindles, rotors, and stub shafts from a twin traction beam, to put disk brakes on my d27. Gathered all the parts and then did not do it as I am going SOA with a D44. I imagine I could have used cj rotors but I had the ones from the ford.

------------------
65 wag. 360/edelbrock rb4/t400/20 t-case/4:10 d27/d44 broken power lok/onboard air/onboard 110v power(no inverter)/1999 Lincoln t.c.leather buckets/Lincoln ctr console/winch/33x12.50/tunes/water proof door pads
soon to have new motor/d44frt/d60r(4:10)welded diff/custom bumpers
see ya in da mud
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  #10  
Old 05-02-2001, 10:16 PM
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scotty scotty is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 12, 2000
Location: dayton,oh,45431
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Talking

i know this is not what you wanna hear,but your factory posi 31 years old,yes? got to be starting to wear out. i just cant see all the work involved being worth it to retain a factory posi that wasnt really all that to begin with,especially with the 19 spline axles.

you can get a brand new 30 spline trac lok for $169 or less,if it were me,id just swap the rear as well,buy a new posi and not mess with 2 spare tires,redrilling axles,or tracking down ford front end parts.buying blank axles and having thm drilled has got to cost as much or more as a new posi...

just my $.02

------------------
scott
85 grand wagoneer
258 with motorcraft 2bbl/904/twin stick dana 300/dana 44/welded amc 20
38x15.5 gumbo mudders
snorkel/dual batteries/onboard air/"custom" convertable
3 inch body lift/mostly stock suspension/"modified" fender openings
custom front/rear bumpers and brushgaurd

T18/dana-spicer 18 with drum E brake and PTO, swap very soon
widetrac offset dana 44s with clearanced center sections and rear discs very soon
BIG tow truck PTO winch and full roll cage install shortly thereafter
4.0 aquired-4.5L stroker someday...

now we can do some 'wheelin!
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  #11  
Old 05-02-2001, 10:53 PM
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Crazy_Jeepman Crazy_Jeepman is offline
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Join Date: Jan 16, 2001
Location: Norway Michigan
Posts: 15,996
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Thanks Scotty I am beginning to come to that realization as well. I think I will be switching out both as I have lots of them anyhow. Thank you all for the bantering around of all the possibilities.

------------------
Making a Career Out Of Restoring My 1979 Jeep J10 360/T18/D20 44s Doing The Turning
And For True Adventure! Driving Daily, An Ugly 70 Wagoneer! Dauntless 350/Th 400/D20/44s. Posi In My Rear. The To Do List Is Longer Than The Wagoneer Is!!!!
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  #12  
Old 05-03-2001, 04:47 PM
jeepbob jeepbob is offline
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if you decide to part ways with the power-lok diff, let me know, I want to put one in the frt end of my wag. Yes I know it will not fit a D27 but it will fit a 19 spline D44 wt axle.
My old power-lok did me well until a new tranny and 2wd split it in 2.
------------------
65 wag. 360/edelbrock rb4/t400/20 t-case/4:10 d27/d44 broken power lok/onboard air/onboard 110v power(no inverter)/1999 Lincoln t.c.leather buckets/Lincoln ctr console/winch/33x12.50/tunes/water proof door pads
soon to have new motor/d44frt/d60r(4:10)welded diff/custom bumpers
see ya in da mud

[This message has been edited by jeepbob (edited May 03, 2001).]
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  #13  
Old 05-03-2001, 04:57 PM
marleyone marleyone is offline
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Do you guys think itd be possible to swap in a '70s front 44 with 6-lug and change it to 5-lug while retaining the front drums? I just finished doing the brakes on all four wheels and the jeep seems to stop great. I know front discs are the way to go but i just need to figure the cheapest, simplest way to get a tougher axle under the front of my '71 - Any thots?

------------------
Decade of fsj History:
'81 Wagoneer - AMC360 727auto np219 dana44 amc20
'71 Wagoneer - 350"Dauntless" th400, d20 d27 d44
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  #14  
Old 05-04-2001, 05:18 AM
jeepbob jeepbob is offline
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Yes it is possible to do that.
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