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  #81  
Old 07-16-2022, 07:54 AM
bkilby's Avatar
bkilby bkilby is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Jan 10, 2016
Location: Burbank Ca.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog80
This is the site for Dodge 727 3-speed info
Dodge 3-Speed Auto - Gearvendors
Go here for more info-
info@gearvendors.com




I put a GV in my Dodge Ram back in 2003-2004. I've had to replace it 3 times due to reverse going out. I probably would have changed it a 4th time but pretty much stopped driving the truck about 5 years ago. Lol. The GV uses clutches for reverse and the oil capacity is something like 1.1 quarts so changing the fluid when you're suppose to is critical. I'd rather change the transmission and tcase than put a GV on.
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1974 Cherokee S. It's driving but needs more work. As usual!
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  #82  
Old 07-16-2022, 10:11 AM
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devildog80 devildog80 is offline
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Join Date: Apr 13, 2022
Location: Apache Junction AZ
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Good information for thought, and that is what I was hoping to get, are the experience from those that have tried them....good or bad!

Thanks and would like to hear more
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'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift

'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift

Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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  #83  
Old 07-17-2022, 08:49 PM
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sierrablue sierrablue is offline
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Join Date: Jan 24, 2022
Location: Northern MN
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by cu4whln
Agree!

My 401 got 8 mpg with 33s and 3.54s.
Checked and rechecked this many times.
The Gas Pig is what I called it.

PITA as it is super hard to get the dam thing to take fuel.. which is required ALL too regularly !!

I won't mention how I fixed this . . .

Be cautious with adding an OD unit. Your drivability may suffer greatly.
Gearing is important for balance drivetrain performance.
Will load the trans more, which can result in heating the fluid.
Heat is the enemy of trans longevity.
8mpg...was the speedometer adapted to the 33s? If it was still reading for 235s, then that could be the issue; if it was still off by 12-15% that would at least bring you up to 9 But if you checked and rechecked I doubt that was the issue.

Just some food for thought here, not going to push you one way or the other on the tires, but I used to be an all-terrain LT all of the way. Then when I got the '71, it had the P225/75R15 Hankook Optimo H724 whitewalls on it. Those are the equivalents of the Kinergy H735s now, and came in 235/75r15, too. I kind of figured that they'd suck in the snow and everything. Then last winter, B350 freshly put back together, I started driving it with them, and I was REALLY impressed. Since you're from ND you know what the snow's like around here; anywhere the body didn't hit I didn't have a problem going. Only time I got stuck (and trust me, I went through some unplowed lots that were drifted to 2.5' deep with 3' deep entrances) was when I slammed on the brakes on the icy backroad for a deer, and put it in the very steep ditch backwards. The snow there was up to the bottom door crease. They seem to do fine in the sand, and I haven't had any trouble with the little bit of mud they've been through. 1800 something pound per tire load rating, I believe, so on these more than enough for any towing you <should> be doing with these. So I've been super happy with these, and with the non-power brakes, I can modulate them REALLY well on the ice They do also offer a nice soft ride, look good, and are more aerodynamic thus get you better mileage

Oh I forgot to mention I got all of those places without even airing them down These things are stupid capable. I love it
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Current Rig:
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
B350/TH400/D20
open knuckle D44 front (disc brakes)
6-lug conversion rear
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...79#post1734879

Previous Rig:
Tan '88 Grand Wagoneer
.030 over 401, TBI, headers
3" exhaust
31x10.5s
2" rear lift blocks
custom headliner
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...77#post1734777

"The engineering side of me says that it's more than strong enough. The redneck side of me says that it's going to fall apart and I need to beef it up."--somebody I know
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  #84  
Old 07-17-2022, 09:03 PM
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cu4whln cu4whln is offline
304 AMC
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Location: Canton, Mi USA !
Posts: 1,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by sierrablue
8mpg...was the speedometer adapted to the 33s? If it was still reading for 235s, then that could be the issue; if it was still off by 12-15% that would at least bring you up to 9 But if you checked and rechecked I doubt that was the issue

Speedo was corrected and very accurate. 33 MT/Rs btw.

401 ran and sounded great, but used gas. Sigh ...
__________________
It's not yours 'til ya bleed on it . . .

1977 "401" 'Da Chief
1979 Chero: "Madness" [Sold]
1985 CJ : Renegade -locked and loaded
2005 Unlimited Rubicon - Built
2001 XJ : Driver - 2016 JK 2 door

'Da Chief here: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...ighlight=chief

Round 2- LT Swap: 'Da Chief:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=188457

"Madness" build here:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=89280
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  #85  
Old 07-17-2022, 09:07 PM
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sierrablue sierrablue is offline
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Join Date: Jan 24, 2022
Location: Northern MN
Posts: 164
As far as the overdrive goes, good info for sure. The D20 overdrive unit's big problem is that it can't handle much power (really torque is the issue), and the reverse/park function has to be manually pulled if you don't want it to roll away At least I think that's how it needs to happen at this point. They're interesting units...trouble with them is that reverse/park function. But seeing as you have the 401 I'd personally just as soon put in an overdrive tranny out of an XJ or ZJ; can pick up a whole salvage one of those for like $400 and get a good tranny out of the deal. Trouble for me is those don't bolt up to ETIHER the B350 or the D20...of course the flip side to THAT is that even from the factory they put adapters on either side of the tranny Anyway you get my .02 now.
__________________
Current Rig:
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
B350/TH400/D20
open knuckle D44 front (disc brakes)
6-lug conversion rear
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...79#post1734879

Previous Rig:
Tan '88 Grand Wagoneer
.030 over 401, TBI, headers
3" exhaust
31x10.5s
2" rear lift blocks
custom headliner
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...77#post1734777

"The engineering side of me says that it's more than strong enough. The redneck side of me says that it's going to fall apart and I need to beef it up."--somebody I know
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  #86  
Old 07-18-2022, 07:59 AM
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bkilby bkilby is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Jan 10, 2016
Location: Burbank Ca.
Posts: 1,054
I'd look for an A518 (727 with OD) from a 4x4 and see if your transmission shop can swap the internals over to your AMC 727 case.
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1974 Cherokee S. It's driving but needs more work. As usual!
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  #87  
Old 07-18-2022, 09:46 AM
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devildog80 devildog80 is offline
258 I6
 
Join Date: Apr 13, 2022
Location: Apache Junction AZ
Posts: 336
Encouraged by everyone's feedback, and good information to consider for sure.

Thanks and keep it coming
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'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift

'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift

Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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  #88  
Old 07-18-2022, 11:48 AM
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sierrablue sierrablue is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Jan 24, 2022
Location: Northern MN
Posts: 164
Since we have a 4.0L ZJ (and an extra automatic transmission for it), I was gonna put the 42RE out of that in the '88--electronically controlled, but the computer is separate from the main computer for the Jeep. They get a bad rep for being "weak" but really they're electronic 727s with an overdrive--any weak parts can be replaced with stronger ones, AND because they're for the 4.0L, they have the AMC bolt pattern so they fit the 401 right out of the box Not sure on the t-case...I wanted to put the mechanical part-time case from the ZJ behind it anyway.
__________________
Current Rig:
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
B350/TH400/D20
open knuckle D44 front (disc brakes)
6-lug conversion rear
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...79#post1734879

Previous Rig:
Tan '88 Grand Wagoneer
.030 over 401, TBI, headers
3" exhaust
31x10.5s
2" rear lift blocks
custom headliner
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...77#post1734777

"The engineering side of me says that it's more than strong enough. The redneck side of me says that it's going to fall apart and I need to beef it up."--somebody I know
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  #89  
Old 07-18-2022, 03:16 PM
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devildog80 devildog80 is offline
258 I6
 
Join Date: Apr 13, 2022
Location: Apache Junction AZ
Posts: 336
Good to know, but if I go to an O/D transmission, I would be looking for an automatic that does not require a computer in any way shape or form. Just simple mechanical shifting.
__________________
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift

'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift

Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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  #90  
Old 07-21-2022, 11:30 AM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Join Date: Oct 31, 2016
Location: Camarillo, CA/Boise, ID
Posts: 4,788
I just rebuilt a Jeep AW4 for my XJ. Here are my thoughts:
1) It would almost bolt into your truck. Almost. You do not need any sort of adapters which is SUPER nice. they are super reliable, long lasting transmissions. The wiring they use is almost all self contained and factory Jeep (you don't need to run some sort of aftermarket crap). You can get a trans and transfer case for like $500. Change the fluid and spend a weekend installing it. Have your shafts extended/shortened and you have a 4 speed automatic (with lockup TC) for about $1200. all factory parts, all fully supported by McParts stores.
2) there is a write on here somewhere that shows how another guy did it. If I still had my jeep, i would have gone this way. XJs came with NP cases so you might even be able to keep your case/shafts.
3) I really think this would be the more affordable and reliable swap. Don't let the idea of a "computer" scare you. They are ALLLLLLL over the wrecking yards. They don't need any sort of tuning or anything. If you can deal with a Duraspark, you can deal with an AW4 transmission controller.
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79 Cherokee Chief (SOLD, goodbye old buddy)
(Cherokee Build Thread)
11 Nissan Pathfinder Silver Edition 4x4
09 Mazdaspeed3 Grand Touring
00 Baby Cherokee
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  #91  
Old 07-21-2022, 11:33 AM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Here are some good threads to read on it:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=182007
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=187654
This guy kept his case, if I were doing this, I would run an XJ NP231. It is also a driver drop like your current case. I think this would be a cheaper more reliable swap but slightly more complicated.
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79 Cherokee Chief (SOLD, goodbye old buddy)
(Cherokee Build Thread)
11 Nissan Pathfinder Silver Edition 4x4
09 Mazdaspeed3 Grand Touring
00 Baby Cherokee
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  #92  
Old 07-21-2022, 12:02 PM
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devildog80 devildog80 is offline
258 I6
 
Join Date: Apr 13, 2022
Location: Apache Junction AZ
Posts: 336
Not scared of computers, just do not want to get that modern with it.

I like these trucks as they were designed, and who knows, the 727 will probably perform perfectly. Then all of my running around & ranting will all be for naught, and will be happy with what I already have.

Maybe reading about what lots of others are doing has my head in the clouds, and I need to come back down to earth, and get focused with what I already have to get it going?
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'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift

'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift

Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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  #93  
Old 08-07-2022, 09:45 PM
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sierrablue sierrablue is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Jan 24, 2022
Location: Northern MN
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by devildog80
Not scared of computers, just do not want to get that modern with it.

I like these trucks as they were designed, and who knows, the 727 will probably perform perfectly. Then all of my running around & ranting will all be for naught, and will be happy with what I already have.

Maybe reading about what lots of others are doing has my head in the clouds, and I need to come back down to earth, and get focused with what I already have to get it going?
Nah, dreaming is good. And until you know EXACTLY what you want it to be, you'll want to gather all of the info you can about your various ideas--and then even if you don't go that route, then the info will be there for others who may want to go that route.
__________________
Current Rig:
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
B350/TH400/D20
open knuckle D44 front (disc brakes)
6-lug conversion rear
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...79#post1734879

Previous Rig:
Tan '88 Grand Wagoneer
.030 over 401, TBI, headers
3" exhaust
31x10.5s
2" rear lift blocks
custom headliner
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...77#post1734777

"The engineering side of me says that it's more than strong enough. The redneck side of me says that it's going to fall apart and I need to beef it up."--somebody I know
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  #94  
Old 09-03-2022, 11:45 PM
78 WIDETRAC's Avatar
78 WIDETRAC 78 WIDETRAC is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Aug 19, 2003
Location: Portland, Or
Posts: 782
How is the project going?


I hope it cools down so you can get the Jeep going.
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  #95  
Old 09-04-2022, 12:57 PM
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devildog80 devildog80 is offline
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Join Date: Apr 13, 2022
Location: Apache Junction AZ
Posts: 336
Still dreaming about great adventures, but still sitting.

Weather forcast shows the end of this next week, temps are supposed to finally drop out of the 100's with humidity getting back down to livable desert levels less than 20%, so work will heat up as temps drop down.

I'm soooo ready to drop that new to me distributor in (thank you again), get some dead dinosaurs in the carb bowls, and turn the key to see what happens.

Will report when back on it, and thanks for the bump
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'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift

'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift

Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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  #96  
Old 09-11-2022, 08:09 PM
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devildog80 devildog80 is offline
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Join Date: Apr 13, 2022
Location: Apache Junction AZ
Posts: 336
Hey followers.......WE HAVE SPARK....WOOOHOOOO

Still a bit warm out, but put on the shop clothes, grabbed the water & smokes, and headed into the heat!

Checked the existing distributor again for ground and 'pick-up" for function, and all tested out good, but would not get spark from the coil....UGH!

So, had another FSJ owner send me a known good distributor he had spare.

Put it in right where the other one was......no spark....GGGGRRRRR!

Bought one of those little spark checker light thingies you put between the plug and wire........no spark!

Took the tool over to my CJ5, to test and make sure the tester worked.

Yep, works good.

Back to the Waggy, placed the tester....and one of my CJ buddies Mongo228 was helping, and decided he would hold onto the tester...on the insulated part no less, and says "Turn it over"!

I hit the switch and the engine took flight for about 3 seconds and died.

WOOHOO....we have spark

Little did I know, but Mongo228 had spark too!

Apparently when he was holding the tester, that spark came rushing through, and grounded through his arm as it went by. WOWSERS!

I climbed out of the cab and up to the engine, and he is standing there waving his arm around.

Thought he was near as excited as I was we had spark, and thought he was doing some dance or something, and I was trying to figure out where I needed to catch the beat so we didn't look completely foolish dancing in the driveway!

No....not dancing, he was trying to shake off the shock he just received,,,,,,but dammit we had spark

So to wrap up the day after dancing....we have spark, then found the existing MC2100 was leaking gas.

We figured it might not do so well, but we started with what we had, and got a few more 3-5 second runs out of it before diving into the carb change.

Mongo228 had a brand new MC2150 he had purchased for his CJ7, and found the fuel line connection to the carb was leaking fuel, so he called it in and was sent another complete carb and told to keep the original one.

He did a JB weld fix on it, so we threw it on and fixing rubber lines etc as we went, to make sure everything was good behind and around while we were there.

Carb on, then battery was low....UGH!

Put the cables to it, and still just not cranking like it should have.

Outside temps were getting up there, we were just running sweat, truck not cooperating so we called it a day.

But hey, WE HAVE SPARK....WOOHOO
__________________
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift

'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift

Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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  #97  
Old 09-12-2022, 05:04 AM
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cu4whln cu4whln is offline
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Join Date: May 16, 2008
Location: Canton, Mi USA !
Posts: 1,617
"Dancing" . . . LOL

Small step!

BUT - Foward steps !

__________________
It's not yours 'til ya bleed on it . . .

1977 "401" 'Da Chief
1979 Chero: "Madness" [Sold]
1985 CJ : Renegade -locked and loaded
2005 Unlimited Rubicon - Built
2001 XJ : Driver - 2016 JK 2 door

'Da Chief here: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...ighlight=chief

Round 2- LT Swap: 'Da Chief:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=188457

"Madness" build here:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=89280
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  #98  
Old 09-18-2022, 03:36 PM
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devildog80 devildog80 is offline
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Join Date: Apr 13, 2022
Location: Apache Junction AZ
Posts: 336
Shout out to 78Widetrac for the distributor he sent

Thank you so much, as it seems to have solved the no spark issue.

Now just need a bit more work with the carb situation and it should be running.
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'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift

'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift

Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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  #99  
Old 09-18-2022, 06:09 PM
78 WIDETRAC's Avatar
78 WIDETRAC 78 WIDETRAC is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Aug 19, 2003
Location: Portland, Or
Posts: 782
No problem. I'm glad it helped. Are you trying to stick to a stock 2bbl set up? Or are you going to swap to a 4 bbl ?
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  #100  
Old 09-19-2022, 09:45 AM
devildog80's Avatar
devildog80 devildog80 is offline
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Join Date: Apr 13, 2022
Location: Apache Junction AZ
Posts: 336
Until I get it on the road to see how the stock 2bbl performs, I am thinking of the 4bbl setup as I have an OEM 4bbl intake that came with extra parts in back of the truck, and possible 4bbl Q-jet sourced as standby.

Thinking the 4bbl Q-jet would potentially get better mpg, but need to get it on the road first to even know what the 2bbl will do.
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'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift

'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift

Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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