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  #21  
Old 01-24-2020, 01:41 PM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
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if it aint pinging with the mild cam leave it. you will lose dynamic compression,and low end torque as you go wider on the duration.


your T400 probably shifts at about 4000 rpm at full throttle. kinda counter productive to run a cam that wants to make power above that at the expense of off idle torque.




i ran the 204/214 cam with my 9.5 401. i loved the off idle power.
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  #22  
Old 01-24-2020, 03:49 PM
wiley-moeracing wiley-moeracing is offline
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Cam selection is very important, a custom grind can be done, more modern engine cams are using a higher lift short duration to get more air into the cylinder. With 9.5 -1 compression you should be running higher octane already( safety aspect) but can run on lower octane as long as the timing is adjusted. The modern engines are using o2 and knock sensors tied in with timing to make the power they have which is part of the reason they feel and run better. It takes a lot of work and time to get a old motor design to run good which is why a lot of guys now are running late model engines because most of the work has been done for them. You can leave as is and bolt on a super charger or turbo and get a very powerful engine and still be a mild build.
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  #23  
Old 01-24-2020, 04:32 PM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiley-moeracing
That cam is a little mild for your 401 and compression, the motor will be happier with more cam and a higher stall, but your best bet is to change out the gears so your motor is in the correct rpm range, 4:10s minimum to 4:56 especially if you have the overdrive in the transfer case. You will be happier...
I think I am going to start looking for a cheap way to adjust my gearing. Maybe I run 31"s until I chassis swap? I really don't want to open the engine up again unless I have to. I will be pulling the engine out in the summer to tie off some loose ends with wiring and other stuff but I do not want to crack open the engine unless I have to (crack open meaning pull the intake, Pull the timing cover, and/or drop the oil pan).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ristow
if it aint pinging with the mild cam leave it. you will lose dynamic compression,and low end torque as you go wider on the duration.

your T400 probably shifts at about 4000 rpm at full throttle. kinda counter productive to run a cam that wants to make power above that at the expense of off idle torque.

i ran the 204/214 cam with my 9.5 401. i loved the off idle power.
I'm not pinging right now but I have been more focused on fuel curves than timing curves so my total timing at operating temp is about 36 degrees. Yeah, I'm shifting at 4k RPM at WOT. I have manually shifted it at 5k RPM to get those RPMs data logged for fuel curves but I get scared to rev that high because I am not confident in my long block/oiling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiley-moeracing
Cam selection is very important, a custom grind can be done, more modern engine cams are using a higher lift short duration to get more air into the cylinder. With 9.5 -1 compression you should be running higher octane already( safety aspect) but can run on lower octane as long as the timing is adjusted. The modern engines are using o2 and knock sensors tied in with timing to make the power they have which is part of the reason they feel and run better. It takes a lot of work and time to get a old motor design to run good which is why a lot of guys now are running late model engines because most of the work has been done for them. You can leave as is and bolt on a super charger or turbo and get a very powerful engine and still be a mild build.
I do run 91 octane right now. I ran a tank of 89 but had other problems so I went back to 91 just to be safe. I don't think I had issues with the 89 octane but would rather not risk it right now. I have a knock sensor hooked up to my computer but it is not installed in the block yet (it's on a bracket under my dash, hooked up to prevent a check engine light). That's part of what I am talking about above when I say I need to pull the engine to finish some wiring stuff.
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  #24  
Old 01-24-2020, 05:02 PM
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How much initial timing are you running? Low(ish) compression engines LOVE a lot of initial timing, which makes for a very noticeable increase in low end torque. Many people stick to the anemic smog-era timing curves and miss on a lot of low end torque. I'm running a HEI in a mild 360 I built, at 20 deg initial timing (35 total) and it feels like a bigger engine off idle.


You may want to ask these folks for feedback.



http://theamcforum.com/forum/amc-v8-...ns_forum2.html



I bet you have some low hanging fruit when it comes to unused power.
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Last edited by Mikel : 01-24-2020 at 05:21 PM.
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  #25  
Old 01-25-2020, 01:08 PM
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These are all awesome. My intial question was answered but I would love to continue this conversation so I am going to split this off into a new thread.
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  #26  
Old 01-25-2020, 07:39 PM
Rusty76 Rusty76 is online now
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Great topic. I've been thinking about the ls swap a lot lately. When I picked up my Jeep and got into this crazy game I had my 360 rebuild. At the time I was so new to working on old vehicles that I never knew that the ls swap was even a thing. Probably still would have gone the same route as the 360 will be easier for me to work on and build up my skills. I've also lusted for some good old snap your head back, burn tires kinda power in my Jeep and I have not even turned my engine over yet! Maybe its too many youtube videos but I really want to try an ls swap but I've come to a conclusion that I want to avoid the middle ground of putting ls in a FSJ. When I'm happy with my Jeep and my wife has not left me I'm going to start looking for a Javelin or 2nd Gen Camaro
to burn money towards ls swap.

I would have to agree with the idea that a modern drivetrain would drastically increase the value of your rig. LS swapped vintage 4x4 is huge right now.
Check these rigs out.

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  #27  
Old 02-06-2020, 01:30 PM
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This is an interesting article.
https://www.fourwheeler.com/how-to/e...ditch-amc-v-8/
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  #28  
Old 02-06-2020, 03:02 PM
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Wagoneer Taylor Wagoneer Taylor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rang-a-stang

That is awesome!
Is it just me or does the article end without going into the engine built part?
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  #29  
Old 02-06-2020, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagoneer Taylor
That is awesome!
Is it just me or does the article end without going into the engine built part?
HAHAHAHAH!!! Nope, not just you! I thought the same thing! I was all excited to see how I jacked up my build/how to fix it, then it just ended!
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  #30  
Old 02-06-2020, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rang-a-stang
HAHAHAHAH!!! Nope, not just you! I thought the same thing! I was all excited to see how I jacked up my build/how to fix it, then it just ended!




Any luck improving engine performance?
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  #31  
Old 02-06-2020, 05:40 PM
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Nope. I have a misfire I am fighting right now. Tonight (or tomorrow) I plan to pull all my plugs and verify compression. I have not done this since the rebuild and think my rings have seated enough to check. I do not see my misfire in my EFI data (it's on the opposite bank as my O2 sensor). I have 2 new caps, 2 new rotors, Taylor plug wires, MSD street coil, and Autolite Copper core spark plugs. All new since I completed my rebuild.
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  #32  
Old 02-06-2020, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikel
How much initial timing are you running? Low(ish) compression engines LOVE a lot of initial timing, which makes for a very noticeable increase in low end torque. Many people stick to the anemic smog-era timing curves and miss on a lot of low end torque. I'm running a HEI in a mild 360 I built, at 20 deg initial timing (35 total) and it feels like a bigger engine off idle.

You may want to ask these folks for feedback.

http://theamcforum.com/forum/amc-v8-...ns_forum2.html

I bet you have some low hanging fruit when it comes to unused power.
Just realized I never responded.
My timing is all controlled by my computer. At idle it hovers around 20 degrees total. As it starts to get up to operating temp, it can get as high as 40 degrees. I do not hear any pinging at this point. I have a knock sensor but it is not hooked up, yet.

Yeah, I am on the AMCforum (love those guys almost as much as you guys here). I thought of swapping back to carb/duraspark for SMOG in June but I would also have to pull this POS serpentine belt kit off to do that, too. My only option at this point is to make my EFI look and run like a Howell and hope the tech does not notice. If there were no smog laws staring me down, it would have a carb/duraspark already.

Why does the serpentine kit matter for smog? It does not support the smog pump. With a Howell, you do not need to run a smog pump.

You're right though, I do have some low hanging fruit (even some that folks have called out in this thread) but first I need to run correctly.
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  #33  
Old 02-06-2020, 09:49 PM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rang-a-stang
but I would also have to pull this POS serpentine belt kit off to do that, too.








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Quote:
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I LOVE how Ristow has stolen my comment about him ... "Quoted" it ... and made himself famous for being an ***hole to people. Hahahahahahahahahha!


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  #34  
Old 02-18-2020, 10:13 PM
bagusjeep bagusjeep is offline
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Some where in there you mentioned fuel consumption.

unless you are doing more than 20,000 miles per year over 3 years, you will not see the money back.

If you do 2-3k per year, just pay for the fuel.
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  #35  
Old 02-19-2020, 05:49 AM
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Yeah, I am gonna stick with what I got for now. I am going after lost potential power here and there. I know my Jeep will never get good mileage but with my efi and some proper planning I think I can improve it and the driveability.
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  #36  
Old 02-20-2020, 06:57 AM
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For a theoretical exercise (and if axle gearing allowed it), I would explore an AW4, along with a higher stall lock-up converter.
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  #37  
Old 02-20-2020, 07:19 AM
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If your axles are stock, the gear ratio will be either 3.07:1 or 3.54:1. We have two 401 Waggys with 3.07 gears. I really wish they were 3.54:1, especially with the over size tires. Take off is a little sluggish but we are not looking to do burnouts. Sometimes it would be nice to have more low end grunt though.

What axle gears and tires are you running?
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  #38  
Old 02-20-2020, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikel
For a theoretical exercise (and if axle gearing allowed it), I would explore an AW4, along with a higher stall lock-up converter.
No matter which trans I swap too it's going to cost. If I do AW4, I either have to swap Transfer case + front axle + new Drive shafts. I am not sure if there is an AW4 to QT adapter made. Tough part is finding a WT front driver driver side axle with the correct gears. If I was NT, it would be much easier to swap front axles.

If I do a GM 4 speed (4L60 or 4L60E) then I either do transfer case swap + engine adapter + New drive shafts, or Engine Adapter + Xfer case adapter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fulsizjeep
If your axles are stock, the gear ratio will be either 3.07:1 or 3.54:1. We have two 401 Waggys with 3.07 gears. I really wish they were 3.54:1, especially with the over size tires. Take off is a little sluggish but we are not looking to do burnouts. Sometimes it would be nice to have more low end grunt though.

What axle gears and tires are you running?
Axles are stock. My rig was originally a 360 rig and has open 3.54s front and rear. Tires are 285/75-16 which are almost 33" tall. I am not sure if I have an OD part time kit installed or not and do not want to open it to find out. If I could find a cheap set of 4.10's I would install them but I do not care enough right now to drop $500 on axles/gears that are going to go away in the next 3 years anyway.

This weekend I am installing a modified governor so my trans will take better advantage of my cam. I hope to get it to shift closer to 5500RPM. After that I am going to hook up my Knock sensor so I can better tune my timing.

I have been watching CL for a decent set of gears but I don't have any spending money right now so even if I found a set, I can't jump on them yet.
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  #39  
Old 02-20-2020, 09:06 AM
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At what RPM does your trans shift at WOT?
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  #40  
Old 02-20-2020, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikel
At what RPM does your trans shift at WOT?
Right now 1-2 is about 3800 and 2-3 is 4K.
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