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Old 02-08-2013, 07:47 AM
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Axle upgrade - what 'parting out' ads should I watch for

I am kicking the idea of going with upgraded axles on the Jeep. Long term project where I will spend a few years watching craigslist and such waiting for a deal on the 'right' axle.

So what am I watching for? I have an 82 WT cherokee (SOA/SF) no outboarding/inboarding of springs.

Either front/passenger drop as I might swap out the transfer case as well.

I would like to keep the same basic axle width. Full floating rear axle. High pinion/high steer front. Years/models of doner trucks would be helpful if you know them off the top of your head.

Thanks guys!
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:17 AM
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The only high pinion for your front that is a bolt in is the 78-79 Ford front axles. Since you are looking at a full-floater for the back that would be the 8 lug HD44 or D60 for the front.
They come up more often in the Phx area and are a little cheaper also (I traveled to Phx for my front 60).
Others will work but involve more effort, you shouldn't have too much trouble since you are planning ahead.
If you stick with a HD44 you should be able to reuse the majority of your high-steer setup, if you find a D60 you are starting over.

There is a rear Dodge D60 that is a bolt in but I'm not real up on the years or donor models, I think Blake is running one in the back of their waggy.

EDIT:
This add repeats fairly often up there, might be worth checking them out.
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/pts/3524098149.html
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Last edited by Tad : 02-08-2013 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:19 PM
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Thanks Tad. Can a non-hd44 be converted to an HD44? What's the difference (other than the 8 bolts)

Edit: Found an answer:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=32437
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Last edited by will e : 02-08-2013 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:27 PM
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orangecherokee orangecherokee is offline
 
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14bolt floater for the rear. cheap, readily available and easy to upgrade to bombproof status. well, maybe not bombproof but pretty tough.
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Old 02-08-2013, 02:21 PM
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Like Tad said, the only high pinion is the Ford axles, but be aware they are drivers drop. Chevy axles are drop in for the most part since you are talking SOA, and Pass drop, but NOT high pinion.

14 bolt rear for sure. Weld/ or have welded, the tubes at the pumpkin so they dont spin on you.
If you break it you probably pulled one of my moves. !4 Bolt FF are near indestructible.

Jim
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Old 02-08-2013, 03:02 PM
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fulsizjeep fulsizjeep is offline
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Dang, you missed a killer deal on a Dodge D60 and J20 front axle in December. I have two of those Dodge D60s here. Don't know that much about them but if you want some measurements or BOMs off the axles, let me know. I think at least one of them is not under snow right now.
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  #7  
Old 02-08-2013, 08:54 PM
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Ah HA! I am driver drop. But I have some ideas on transfer cases too.

Front axle will be the most difficult to locate.

Okay, I think the purchasing order here is front axle, then rear, then transfer case. Sounds like the front axle will be the hardest to find. If you see a D60 ford high pinion (1978/1979) for sale let me know. I have no intention of paying for shipping. It's a matter of falling on the right deal.
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:00 PM
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So what's this going to cost? That one ad had them for 1000 to 1500 and that is just for starters!

Are the driver side drops less desirable?
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  #9  
Old 02-09-2013, 02:48 AM
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blazer3664 blazer3664 is offline
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Drivers drop vs pass drop to me is a wash as I can get a good t-case for either.

Drivers drop from 78-79 Ford would be most desirable to me since they are high pinion and basically bolt in as far as spring perches (for SOA).
......On the con side they are not as common as the GM/Dodge version.
............The above may also cause them to have a $$ premium.

The GM/Dodge axles are all over the place, especially if you are OK with a D44. Also basically bolt in as far as spring perches (for SOA). Usually cheaper than the Fords.
.......Con, low pinion can make for sucky u-joint angles.

Prices will vary by area, but usually fall in the following order, cheaper to $$$$.

1) Dodge 8 lug D44 w/external style hubs

2)GM/Dodge D44 with internal style hubs, or drive flanges.

3) 78-79 Ford high pinion D44

4)GM/Dodge D60. (As far as I know D60 never had the less desirable external hubs.)

5)78-79 Ford High pinion D60

If you are going to wait until you "find the right deal" I would keep an eye out for the Ford D60.
I gave up and went with a GM D60 but wanted to get the axles under it ASAP.

As mentioned D44 can use you steering stuff, D60 will require new.
Quote:
I would like to keep the same basic axle width.
I think the closest will be the D44 front from a J20. You may be able to find a matched set (8 lug D44 front + FF D60 rear) on here if you are not in a hurry.

Big ??

What are you planning to do with it?
How hard are you going to beat on it?
Future tire size?

Jim
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modified flares, removable top, OBA w/200psi tank,
LQ4, 4L80e,NWF doubler w/upside down 203
SOA w/ D44s F+R for now
H1 wheels+tires (cut), hydroboost brakes
custom shackle flip
W/F150 springs
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snorkels,
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Last edited by blazer3664 : 02-09-2013 at 02:53 AM.
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  #10  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
So what's this going to cost?
A lot
Seriously though I agree with the outline above that Blazer laid out.
I spent over a year looking for a GM front 60 @ under $1K that was complete and not abused.

You got time so I would wait and watch for a 78/79 Ford front 60.
In the Phx area you will most likely go to $1,500 for a complete unit.
This brings into play just buying an entire rig.
I recently (last fall) missed out on an entire '79 F350 for a $800 (non-running) ranch truck in Silver City because I could not get over there fast enough and the ranch was in foreclosure.

As far as the t-case switch goes, just go aftermarket.
I have almost all of the parts needed for a 203/205 doubler setup that I have been piecing together for several years. I have way more $$ and time into it than I care to admit and it gets worse when you add up rebuilding the 208 twice in that time span.
I should have just bought an Atlas or something similar. At that point drop side does not matter, you can have them setup however you need them.
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IFSJA WMS PROJECT
EARLY WAG LIFT SEARCH

Quote:
...Pay no attention to these heathen barbarians with their cutting torches and 8" lift kits!...

Self Inflicted Flesh Wound
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  #11  
Old 02-09-2013, 07:51 AM
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fulsizjeep fulsizjeep is offline
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Curious to see where this goes Mike. I like the idea of the front HP Ford 60 if you can find one. We have fresh snow piling up now so digging through axles here will wait.
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  #12  
Old 02-09-2013, 09:10 AM
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Well Flint, it will go slow.

One thing I will be watching for is either a truck like Tad mentioned. Or maybe something someone is willing to take a loss on. Here is an example:

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/pts/3514860668.html

Those won't work (gears too high, I don't want a detroit up front, etc) but the guy is taking a loss on them and with cash in hand I could probably get him down some more.


Thinking about it I get the high pinion advantage. The d60 is longer so the front axle has to be shorter/more angled (low pinion d60 compared to a low pinion 44). Using a high pinion helps reduce that issue.


I guess I don't understand why I would have to redo steering if I found a stock ford 78/79. If it came factory with SOA why would it not work on my setup?

Tad, you are correct about the TC. And my thought is to go Altas. I have pretty much talked myself into a 4spd. My thoughts on this are I can gear the axles more for highway. With the V8 and 727 I have plenty of torque to get moving and I don't plan on doing any heavy towing (if any at all). Instead of spending bucks on some 700r4 conversion and higher axle gears I put the money into the TC. The 4spd gives you different options and great crawl ratio if set up right.

But lets face it. By the time this is all said and done with tires /rims /axles/tc/drive shaft mods the price tag will be in the $10K range. All that mostly to make sure I don't break down on the trail. So I have to be reasonable and take it slow, look for deals and be patient.
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Last edited by will e : 02-09-2013 at 09:12 AM.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
I guess I don't understand why I would have to redo steering if I found a stock ford 78/79
I don't recall exactly what your steering looks like.
If you went with an HD44 from a 78/79 Ford (ball joints) it might swap over, I'm not sure about Ford knuckles, I know your existing knuckles would swap over but I don't know if the Ford spindles would bolt up, won't take much research to determine that.

If you find a 78/79 Ford front 60 (king pins) none of your 44 steering arms swap over. You might be able to reuse parts of your drag link and tie rod but like I mentioned I don't recall your exact setup.

When I went GM front 60 I tried mocking up my PartsMike HD44 tie rod and drag link. I could adjust the TRE's out farther to make it fit but I was at about 4-5 threads in depth so both the drag link and tie rod needed to be longer.
Not wanting to mess with that I just bought new Dom tube, new TRE's and weld in inserts and sold all the PartsMike stuff to FnK.
Which is sort of ironic now as they eventually wound up with the entire axle and all my HD44 parts.
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IFSJA WMS PROJECT
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Quote:
...Pay no attention to these heathen barbarians with their cutting torches and 8" lift kits!...

Self Inflicted Flesh Wound
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Old 02-16-2013, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazer3664


4)GM/Dodge D60. (As far as I know D60 never had the less desirable external hubs.)


Dodge did use the external style hub on D60 front axles. I have one under my YJ.
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This year for ECI I got a Jeep. Pretty important upgrade.
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Old 02-16-2013, 01:48 PM
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For what it's worth...

You can get a pile of money invested in axles. I have a set of D60s (GM fr..Dodge rr) which I paid to have regeared, locked and the rear spindles bored for 1.5" custom shafts. I have them for sale (kinda) I'd rather sell the tons under my YJ and use these as they are like freakin new) I've had offers for them, but none worth taking that much of a loss.
Just to go to tons the cost of the axles was around a grand. I also have that much invested in gears, lockers, shafts etc...

It adds up quick.
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Quote:
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:21 PM
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After my first week or so of searching I have come to a few conclusions.

1. People love their d60 hp. They want a lot of money for a used one.
2. Other people spend a lot of money putting an axle together but never finish their rig and have to sell the axle.
3. The cost of 'redoing' a used axle is not cheap.

So I think my best bet is to patiently wait for someone who has spent a lot of time/money collecting parts or putting together an axle. I can save a couple grand. Even if I pay for shipping it's still cheaper overall than building one. Heck, by the time you build one it isn't that much more to by a brand new one custom built.

So, cash tucked off to the side while I bide my time.
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