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  #21  
Old 10-31-2006, 02:20 PM
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BRUTUS BRUTUS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derf
Never underestimate "redneck engineering".

Ironically enough.. I am a "redneck" by upbringing and a degree'd mechanical "engineer" by trade.
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  #22  
Old 10-31-2006, 02:27 PM
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Thomas Edison said, (i am sure this is at least a slight paraphrase)

"this problem is too difficult for the professionals, an amateur will have to solve this"


and remember, trained professionals built the titanic, but the ark was built by one lone wacko...

peace
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  #23  
Old 10-31-2006, 02:36 PM
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Carl Rasmussen Carl Rasmussen is offline
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I have a question.....
is it really that hard to find round tubing?
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  #24  
Old 10-31-2006, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Rasmussen
I have a question.....
is it really that hard to find round tubing?

Round tubing isn't the issue... it is the splined slip shaft that costs the money... so when you replace the splined slip shaft with off the shelf steel stock... much cheaper.
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  #25  
Old 10-31-2006, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVJEEPER
Wow was that a weld let go or the small tube spun in the bigone?

the weld broke lose right where the square tubing is seamed together and the big tube started to peel that little tube off before it broke completely in two. i really need bigger tubing but i couldnt squeeze it in there without rerouting the exhaust and notching the crossmember
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  #26  
Old 10-31-2006, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Rasmussen
I have a question.....
is it really that hard to find round tubing?

for slip and strength.
you ever spec'd out a .250 wall dshaft? (read: $$$)
my buddy just spent 2gs on shafts that will be as strong as my $200 square shafts.
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  #27  
Old 10-31-2006, 06:43 PM
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Here's how I see it:

Option 1: Butt weld it - if the weld breaks, you end up with a 2 piece driveshaft.
Option 2: Round off square tubing - if the weld breaks, the shaft will spin inside the yoke, but you will end up with a 2 piece driveshaft.
Option 3: Make the yoke square - if the weld breaks, the shaft will not spin inside the yoke, but you will end up with a 2 piece driveshaft.

Now here's a few key points:

- If the welds break, you're S.O.L., so you better have good welds.
- Option 3 will put less stress on the weld due to the square shape taking some of the torque, allowing the weld to take the rest (vs. all of the torque).
- Option 2 will make the square tube thin where you weld it to the yoke, possibly allowing less strength, but again, it depends on your welds.

So, depending on how much torque you can predict (yeah right), I'd say worry about welding it good. I'd pick 3, 1, 2. Sorry it took so long to just say 3 numbers.
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  #28  
Old 10-31-2006, 08:53 PM
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How about you do both...

Meaning...
Mill the smaller one down to fit inside the yoke, then fill the yoke with weld. Next cut about a 2" piece of the larger tube, and slide it over the smaller tube all the way down to the yoke. Then you can weld the bottom edge of the larger tube to the yoke, and the top edge to the smaller tube. That should give you the best of both worlds. Right??
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  #29  
Old 11-01-2006, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmntxn77
How about you do both...

Meaning...
Mill the smaller one down to fit inside the yoke, then fill the yoke with weld. Next cut about a 2" piece of the larger tube, and slide it over the smaller tube all the way down to the yoke. Then you can weld the bottom edge of the larger tube to the yoke, and the top edge to the smaller tube. That should give you the best of both worlds. Right??

I had thought about that but the larger tube does not even begin to fit over the yoke.
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  #30  
Old 11-01-2006, 12:11 AM
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I like the idea of the square tubing for the front drive shaft.....

I'm throwing this idea out there.... my bushhog has a square "solid" inner shaft with a square hollow outside. May be something to think about.
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  #31  
Old 11-01-2006, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firegoose
I like the idea of the square tubing for the front drive shaft.....

I'm throwing this idea out there.... my bushhog has a square "solid" inner shaft with a square hollow outside. May be something to think about.

I had never thought about ag shafts because I figured that ag shafts didn't use anything as big as a 1410 joint. I am gonna have to check them out.
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  #32  
Old 11-01-2006, 03:53 AM
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I used two different types of yokes for my square shaft. Used a standard 3" 1350 fixed yoke, ground to fit inside the larger tubing, then used a 1350 slip-yoke, and ground that down to fit inside the smaller tubing. Everything was pressed at 20 tons, and welded at the seams.
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Last edited by sjlplat : 11-01-2006 at 03:55 AM.
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  #33  
Old 11-01-2006, 07:54 AM
worn4wd worn4wd is offline
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break down and get some DOM tubeing and a slip joint from your local spicer rep and just make a "real" driveshaft. if money is an issue just get one at the junkyard that is longer than you need, and cut it down.
i usualy do the later, because i'm cheap!
good luck
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  #34  
Old 11-01-2006, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUTUS
I had thought about that but the larger tube does not even begin to fit over the yoke.

I know that is does not go over it, but from the pics, it looks like you would still get some fresh weld surface...
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  #35  
Old 11-01-2006, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worn4wd
break down and get some DOM tubeing and a slip joint from your local spicer rep and just make a "real" driveshaft. if money is an issue just get one at the junkyard that is longer than you need, and cut it down.
i usualy do the later, because i'm cheap!
good luck

the slip yoke from the spicer dealer won't have any more LENGTH of slip than the one he is taking out.
leafs can flex great, but the axle will follow a different arc than the driveshaft, there fore we need a slip element (usually a splined section)

however, if one uses square tubing such as described, you can have nearly as much 'slip' as half the length of the driveshaft. (for really flexy leaf suspensions, and some link systems that don't follow the arc of the driveshaft)

peace
Dave
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  #36  
Old 11-01-2006, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustywagoneers_com
the slip yoke from the spicer dealer won't have any more LENGTH of slip than the one he is taking out.
leafs can flex great, but the axle will follow a different arc than the driveshaft, there fore we need a slip element (usually a splined section)

however, if one uses square tubing such as described, you can have nearly as much 'slip' as half the length of the driveshaft. (for really flexy leaf suspensions, and some link systems that don't follow the arc of the driveshaft)

peace
Dave

That pretty much explains it. I went through 2 different slip yokes before I decided to go square. My rig was pulling the slip yoke clean off the splines. They just don't make off the shelf slip yokes with enough slip for my rig. The only choices I had were custom splines, a limiting strap, or square. I went the cheap route, since I had already dropped a good $600 in the front driveshaft.
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  #37  
Old 11-01-2006, 06:48 PM
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WOW!!!! that sucks!
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  #38  
Old 11-01-2006, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUTUS
Ironically enough.. I am a "redneck" by upbringing and a degree'd mechanical "engineer" by trade.

Speaking as a fellow ME in training, I would do the force analysis on this shaft: square vs round, butt weld vs milling, cross sectional area reduction, heat concentrations, and stress concentrations due to various machining efforts before I touched one piece of metal to another. These types of analysis, as you know, can be done quick and dirty without too much sweat, and might lead you to other avenues of thinking such as sleeving the yoke to the shaft. Two things I would be worried about are the stress concentrators induced by the yoke, and the sheer stress at the joint between the differing cross sectional areas of the yoke and the tubes. I might even do a quick and dirty analysis of the minimum I needed to resist the torsion that shaft will see if say a front wheel gets jammed.

But then again, I do these sorts of things for s###ts and giggles all the time
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  #39  
Old 11-01-2006, 09:00 PM
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not an engineer by trade, but i have worked with alot in my industry...(papermill general mechanic)....i have seen alot of things that should work on paper, but dont in the real world.......and i have also seen things that absolutely should not work, but have been for many years......

i would machine the yoke to accept the smaller tubing.......weld it, then make you a collar to slide over the tubing and weld up to the yoke....

anyway, just my .02

i like the ideal of the ag shafts, but at the time, i could not find a crossover joint......(i have limited rescources)....maybe somebody could come up with some numbers.....
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  #40  
Old 11-01-2006, 10:42 PM
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I am an engineer by education/trade and I have found that sometimes you have to try things out.
Burn it in......it was cheap fix anyway. Go wheelin.
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