International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tire Kickin' > General FSJ Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 01-22-2011, 10:46 PM
Tigger4X's Avatar
Tigger4X Tigger4X is offline
AMC 4 OH! 1
 
Join Date: Nov 16, 2001
Location: Eugeniastan, Orygun Central Blok
Posts: 4,230
WOW!! Thanks for a bunch of great info! Quite a lot for my close to fried brain.

The 258 to AW4 sounds like a complicated bunch of fun having to chase down all of the stuff it'd need to make it work and I dont know if I could handle all the TPS fabbing and stuff. If I have it right I could stuff the 4.0 with its already mated AW4, but I'm confused as to what stock t-case it runs. I can hunt down axles for the right gear ratio and get the driveshafts done here local. She will be stock unless there is something simple that can be done to give her a little bitty lift for maybe 31s at the most! (Even if they have typical 205/95/15 type numbering )

This IS not for me but for a friend of mine who is need of a very reliable vehicle that can handle the Missouri snow. She's not a wheeler or anything but it wouldnt hurt to be capable of basic stuff. BUDGET is BIG here and getting the best MPGs will be a BIG help. The 258 first came to mind because she'd get better MPGs than a V8 and an auto would benefit her lack of experience with a stick in the snow. But if the 4.0 - AW4 combo is easier and cheaper then thats my direction. She's in college going for a double major to be a teacher. I just want to help her out as her family has been really good to me.

Like I said before my brain is on overload so if ya'll can be patient with me and splain it all simple cuz I'm blond brain fried it'd help a lot. LOL
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by will e
Keep in mind. Getting old is easy. Being old is hard.
Post #14 ~ http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...=1#post1580206
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-23-2011, 09:10 AM
addicted's Avatar
addicted addicted is offline
Big Meanie
 
Join Date: Dec 11, 2004
Location: Byron, MI
Posts: 4,876
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger4X
WOW!! Thanks for a bunch of great info! Quite a lot for my close to fried brain.

The 258 to AW4 sounds like a complicated bunch of fun having to chase down all of the stuff it'd need to make it work and I dont know if I could handle all the TPS fabbing and stuff. If I have it right I could stuff the 4.0 with its already mated AW4, but I'm confused as to what stock t-case it runs. I can hunt down axles for the right gear ratio and get the driveshafts done here local. She will be stock unless there is something simple that can be done to give her a little bitty lift for maybe 31s at the most! (Even if they have typical 205/95/15 type numbering )

This IS not for me but for a friend of mine who is need of a very reliable vehicle that can handle the Missouri snow. She's not a wheeler or anything but it wouldnt hurt to be capable of basic stuff. BUDGET is BIG here and getting the best MPGs will be a BIG help. The 258 first came to mind because she'd get better MPGs than a V8 and an auto would benefit her lack of experience with a stick in the snow. But if the 4.0 - AW4 combo is easier and cheaper then thats my direction. She's in college going for a double major to be a teacher. I just want to help her out as her family has been really good to me.

Like I said before my brain is on overload so if ya'll can be patient with me and splain it all simple cuz I'm blond brain fried it'd help a lot. LOL

The 4.0/AW4 came with either a NP231 or an NP242. The 231 is a part time case that functions much like a Dana 20 or NP208. The NP242 has 2WD/4HI part time/4HI full time/N/4LO. So it's like an NP228 with a 4HI part time option.
__________________
Quote:
Originally posted by Ristow
i bet it was Simon....
he's such big meanie that way...
please don't tell him i said that....
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-23-2011, 09:13 AM
Mikel's Avatar
Mikel Mikel is online now
 
Join Date: Aug 09, 2000
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 6,270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger4X

This IS not for me but for a friend of mine who is need of a very reliable vehicle that can handle the Missouri snow. She's not a wheeler or anything but it wouldnt hurt to be capable of basic stuff. BUDGET is BIG here and getting the best MPGs will be a BIG help. The 258 first came to mind because she'd get better MPGs than a V8 and an auto would benefit her lack of experience with a stick in the snow. But if the 4.0 - AW4 combo is easier and cheaper then thats my direction. She's in college going for a double major to be a teacher. I just want to help her out as her family has been really good to me.

Get an XJ.
__________________
1969 M715 6x6
1963 J300 Swivel frame
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-23-2011, 09:31 AM
Eaglefreek's Avatar
Eaglefreek Eaglefreek is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 19, 2010
Location: Fayetteville, TN
Posts: 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger4X
getting the best MPGs will be a BIG help.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikel
Get an XJ.

I was thinking more in line of a Subaru. A front wheel drive vehicle with good snow tires works great in the snow also.
__________________
86 AMC Eagle 258/4.0 head
87 AMC Eagle 5.3L, 4L60E, Explorer 8.8, Dana 44 on 35's
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-23-2011, 01:36 PM
Tigger4X's Avatar
Tigger4X Tigger4X is offline
AMC 4 OH! 1
 
Join Date: Nov 16, 2001
Location: Eugeniastan, Orygun Central Blok
Posts: 4,230
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted
The 4.0/AW4 came with either a NP231 or an NP242. The 231 is a part time case that functions much like a Dana 20 or NP208. The NP242 has 2WD/4HI part time/4HI full time/N/4LO. So it's like an NP228 with a 4HI part time option.

THANKS!

Part time is going to be a much better route then. Looks like I'm after a 4.0 / AW4 / NP231 and driveshafts.
I have never dealt with a 4.0 engine. Are there a bunch of electronics and junk that has to be swapped over? If so then maybe I hafta scrap this idea and go with a TH400 behind the 258.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglefreek
I was thinking more in line of a Subaru. A front wheel drive vehicle with good snow tires works great in the snow also.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikel
Get an XJ.


I alreadyhave acces to a Wagoneer so the powertrain is a better option.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by will e
Keep in mind. Getting old is easy. Being old is hard.
Post #14 ~ http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...=1#post1580206

Last edited by Tigger4X : 01-23-2011 at 02:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-23-2011, 02:14 PM
Cecil14's Avatar
Cecil14 Cecil14 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 22, 2001
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 5,095
I very very very much doubt you will be able to build this for less than you can find a nice serviceable XJ. I'm not trying to deter you here, just looking out for what is likely to be the cheapest, easiest solution.

If you are dead set on using the wag then your best option is going to be the 4.0/AW4/NP242. The NP242 with it's fulltime mode will be a LOT better on snowy roads than the NP231.

You will be best off to find a complete parts donor. You will need an electric fuel pump (hi pressure, about 40psi). The FI wiring is a bit intimidating at first but not bad once you get into it. You'll need a VSS (speed sensor). The donor will have the correct hookup for the computer but will probably not have an output for your cable speedo inside. Hesco sells an adapter that will allow for both. Around $100 IIRC.

You'll need to figure something out for the shifter. All of the AW4 Jeeps I can think of were floor shift...though I could be wrong.

You'll also need to swap in a drivers drop front axle. As mention I would look for something around 3.73 or so for gearing, especially if you want to run 31s.

That should get you a decent start.


aa
__________________
1983 J-10 - 4.6L(MPFI)/CS130D/Hydroboost/NV3550/D300/44/44/3.54/Disc-Disc/32s/42 gallon 'burb tank
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-23-2011, 02:18 PM
Tigger4X's Avatar
Tigger4X Tigger4X is offline
AMC 4 OH! 1
 
Join Date: Nov 16, 2001
Location: Eugeniastan, Orygun Central Blok
Posts: 4,230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil14
I very very very much doubt you will be able to build this for less than you can find a nice serviceable XJ. I'm not trying to deter you here, just looking out for what is likely to be the cheapest, easiest solution.

If you are dead set on using the wag then your best option is going to be the 4.0/AW4/NP242. The NP242 with it's fulltime mode will be a LOT better on snowy roads than the NP231.

You will be best off to find a complete parts donor. You will need an electric fuel pump (hi pressure, about 40psi). The FI wiring is a bit intimidating at first but not bad once you get into it. You'll need a VSS (speed sensor). The donor will have the correct hookup for the computer but will probably not have an output for your cable speedo inside. Hesco sells an adapter that will allow for both. Around $100 IIRC.

You'll need to figure something out for the shifter. All of the AW4 Jeeps I can think of were floor shift...though I could be wrong.

You'll also need to swap in a drivers drop front axle. As mention I would look for something around 3.73 or so for gearing, especially if you want to run 31s.

That should get you a decent start.


aa


NP242 wont be an option because it forces an axle swap. So the NP231 is wha she's gonna have. This brings up the question I asked just above ... Will a TH400 bolt up behind the 258? It sounds like its gonna be a LOT easier than the XJ donor route. And its been a while so that brings me to which passenger drop t-case can I chase down that needs no adapter.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by will e
Keep in mind. Getting old is easy. Being old is hard.
Post #14 ~ http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...=1#post1580206

Last edited by Tigger4X : 01-23-2011 at 02:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-23-2011, 02:21 PM
Cecil14's Avatar
Cecil14 Cecil14 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 22, 2001
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 5,095
The NP231 will be drivers drop as well. Your only option for a T-case on that trans that is passenger drop would be a D300. You'll need to check clearance and make sure everything will fit with the AW4. I know they have issues bolting to the TF727...dunno bout the AW4, though.


aa
__________________
1983 J-10 - 4.6L(MPFI)/CS130D/Hydroboost/NV3550/D300/44/44/3.54/Disc-Disc/32s/42 gallon 'burb tank
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-23-2011, 02:25 PM
Tigger4X's Avatar
Tigger4X Tigger4X is offline
AMC 4 OH! 1
 
Join Date: Nov 16, 2001
Location: Eugeniastan, Orygun Central Blok
Posts: 4,230
I went looking back thru my thread here and thought somebody posted up about a D20 or NP208 working behind the TH400, but cant remember where I read it. ACK!

And yeah, I goofed. The NP231 wouldnt work, but IIRC the D300 would need an adpater for the AX4. ACK ACK!!
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by will e
Keep in mind. Getting old is easy. Being old is hard.
Post #14 ~ http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...=1#post1580206
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-23-2011, 02:32 PM
Cecil14's Avatar
Cecil14 Cecil14 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 22, 2001
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 5,095
The D20 has a unique "Texas" bolt pattern, unless you go with one from a 1980 Scout...read: very expensive, assuming you can even find one. The NP208 is also drivers drop, unless you find one from a GM truck...then you'd have to mix and match input gears to make it work.

The D300 should work with a clocking ring, I believe. I'm running one on my NV3550 with a $60 ring from Great Lakes Fab I think.


aa
__________________
1983 J-10 - 4.6L(MPFI)/CS130D/Hydroboost/NV3550/D300/44/44/3.54/Disc-Disc/32s/42 gallon 'burb tank
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 01-23-2011, 02:40 PM
Tigger4X's Avatar
Tigger4X Tigger4X is offline
AMC 4 OH! 1
 
Join Date: Nov 16, 2001
Location: Eugeniastan, Orygun Central Blok
Posts: 4,230
Thanks! 258 / TH400 / D300 with clocking ring. check check and double check!


Now the parts hunt ensues! LOL Iffin you got the parts especially if you are relatively local I wanna know about it. I'd be interested in stuff that could be shipped economically.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by will e
Keep in mind. Getting old is easy. Being old is hard.
Post #14 ~ http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...=1#post1580206
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-23-2011, 02:42 PM
Cecil14's Avatar
Cecil14 Cecil14 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 22, 2001
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 5,095
You're going to need to rebuild the TH400 with a different tailshaft to put the D300 on it. Just FYI.


aa
__________________
1983 J-10 - 4.6L(MPFI)/CS130D/Hydroboost/NV3550/D300/44/44/3.54/Disc-Disc/32s/42 gallon 'burb tank
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-23-2011, 03:01 PM
Eaglefreek's Avatar
Eaglefreek Eaglefreek is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 19, 2010
Location: Fayetteville, TN
Posts: 141
Plus the TH400 is a horsepower hog and has a higher first gear ratio than typically found in the auto transmissions found behind 258's. It will make that 258 feel like a total slug and it will probably get the same if not worse MPG than a 360.

I think you need to step back and reevaluate your plan.
So what I'm getting form your posts is that
#1 You already have a pre 80 Wagoneer that is minus a drive train.
#2 You are trying to put together a reliable, snow worthy vehicle that gets decent gas mileage
#3 You have a low budget

Honestly I'm with Mikel about an XJ. Would be cheaper and alot easier than what you are attempting to do. You would have to throw the decent MPG and low budget out the window while using a FSJ. If your still determined to use a FSJ, maybe a fuel injected Chevy 350/700r combo would be easier. You could get a passenger drop Tcase no problem with that combo and no adapter necessary, plus there are a plethora of Chevy trucks in junkyards.
__________________
86 AMC Eagle 258/4.0 head
87 AMC Eagle 5.3L, 4L60E, Explorer 8.8, Dana 44 on 35's
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01-23-2011, 03:07 PM
Tigger4X's Avatar
Tigger4X Tigger4X is offline
AMC 4 OH! 1
 
Join Date: Nov 16, 2001
Location: Eugeniastan, Orygun Central Blok
Posts: 4,230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cecil14
You're going to need to rebuild the TH400 with a different tailshaft to put the D300 on it. Just FYI.


aa



Didnt you just tell me that all I needed was a clocking ring
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by will e
Keep in mind. Getting old is easy. Being old is hard.
Post #14 ~ http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...=1#post1580206
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-23-2011, 03:09 PM
Tigger4X's Avatar
Tigger4X Tigger4X is offline
AMC 4 OH! 1
 
Join Date: Nov 16, 2001
Location: Eugeniastan, Orygun Central Blok
Posts: 4,230
OK guys, this is getting very frustrating. What 258 powertrain can I snag up that will fit what I have? The Wag isnt a pre-80 either.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by will e
Keep in mind. Getting old is easy. Being old is hard.
Post #14 ~ http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...=1#post1580206
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-23-2011, 03:41 PM
Eaglefreek's Avatar
Eaglefreek Eaglefreek is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 19, 2010
Location: Fayetteville, TN
Posts: 141
What year Waggy and what engine was in it before?
__________________
86 AMC Eagle 258/4.0 head
87 AMC Eagle 5.3L, 4L60E, Explorer 8.8, Dana 44 on 35's
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 01-23-2011, 03:50 PM
Tigger4X's Avatar
Tigger4X Tigger4X is offline
AMC 4 OH! 1
 
Join Date: Nov 16, 2001
Location: Eugeniastan, Orygun Central Blok
Posts: 4,230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaglefreek
What year Waggy and what engine was in it before?



360 / TF727 / NP229 .... shouldnt matter because motor mounts can be fabbed as well as trans and t-case x-members. Would be nice not to have to tho. Hoping they will be available out of a donor.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by will e
Keep in mind. Getting old is easy. Being old is hard.
Post #14 ~ http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...=1#post1580206
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 01-23-2011, 04:34 PM
Cecil14's Avatar
Cecil14 Cecil14 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 22, 2001
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 5,095
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger4X
Didnt you just tell me that all I needed was a clocking ring

Sorry...I thought you were referring to the AW4.

If you have an 80s wag then the diff is on the driver's side already...why not just drop an entire XJ driveline in it? 4.0L/AW4/NP242?


aa
__________________
1983 J-10 - 4.6L(MPFI)/CS130D/Hydroboost/NV3550/D300/44/44/3.54/Disc-Disc/32s/42 gallon 'burb tank
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01-23-2011, 04:35 PM
AMC-J/20's Avatar
AMC-J/20 AMC-J/20 is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Dec 17, 2009
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,326
In OEM trim yes the 4.0/AW-4 is electronic . . . But the 242/4.0 I6 can be swapped over to carb, by doing the opposite of EFI ing the 258 ? . . ? I would imagine.

As for the AW-4 ? Couldn't it be ran by a stand alone comp ? Like the 4L60/80E's ?

Tho I am sure the 258 / TH-400 is durable combo
Mike
__________________
1953 REO M48.
1962 GMC C3000.
1969 AMC AMX-390 Resto.
1971 AMC/Jeep J4000DRW.
1983 AMC Eagle project SX/290.
1988 AMC/Jeep project MJ/343.
1989 Jeep GrandWagoneer.
1991 Dodge Ram-Charger.

A M C Means Jeep to me
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 01-23-2011, 04:37 PM
Cecil14's Avatar
Cecil14 Cecil14 is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 22, 2001
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 5,095
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMC-J/20
In OEM trim yes the 4.0/AW-4 is electronic . . . But the 242/4.0 I6 can be swapped over to carb, by doing the opposite of EFI ing the 258 ? . . ? I would imagine.

As for the AW-4 ? Couldn't it be ran by a stand alone comp ? Like the 4L60/80E's ?

Tho I am sure the 258 / TH-400 is durable combo
Mike

Really is no point in swapping in a 4.0L just to keep it carbed. Might as well keep the 258 at that point. The best part of the 4.0L is the FI.

The AW4 uses a stand alone computer already, but it still requires input from a couple key sensors. Notably the TPS on the throttle body and the VSS. It uses these to determine shift points. While these could certainly be added in without FI....if MPG is your goal you're shooting yourself in the foot by not using the whole package.


aa
__________________
1983 J-10 - 4.6L(MPFI)/CS130D/Hydroboost/NV3550/D300/44/44/3.54/Disc-Disc/32s/42 gallon 'burb tank
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Using 4.0 head on 258 block with aw4 trans? CJ the noisemaker General FSJ Discussion 2 11-16-2010 08:19 AM
258 Manual trans, mesurment please mdill General FSJ Tech 0 06-13-2008 08:49 PM
Will 258 trans fit 304-360? trellis8 General FSJ Discussion 4 09-26-2007 08:40 AM
is there a manual trans for a 258? J10Joe General FSJ Tech 5 11-04-2005 01:26 PM
will a 258 and a 400 trans work jeeps4bdv General FSJ Tech 1 05-29-2002 05:44 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:16 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner