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  #1  
Old 11-18-2002, 03:50 PM
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Elliott Elliott is offline
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Has anyone stuffed a NV 4500 in their fullsize on this board?
I've seen the kits for mating a Dana 300, moves the front driveline back some (was it?) 4 or 5.5 inches. That would help the drive line angle I'm going to have, but don't know if you move the cross member back or if I'd experience a clearance problem there.
Haven't seen anything about mating to a Dana 20, would there be much diff? Seems like the 20 and 300 should bolt up the same, but I've never had a 300.
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Old 11-18-2002, 04:02 PM
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The bolt patterns are totally different for the 20 and 300. The 300 has the same round 6 bolt pattern as the modern NP cases whereas the 20 (at least the jeep version) has the "texas" pattern. Not sure if anyone makes an adapter for the 4500/20 or not. Probably do though.

Anthony
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  #3  
Old 11-18-2002, 05:57 PM
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Heimeken Heimeken is offline
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Likewise I have never seen that adapter. Best bet is to go with the 300, or a Chevy NP case. The setup should be pretty close in length to your current setup cuz the T18s and T176s in Jeeps have a 5" spacer between the bellhousing an tranny.
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  #4  
Old 11-18-2002, 11:37 PM
FSJeeper FSJeeper is offline
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NV4500's are not all what they are cracked up to be. Especially with earlier 90's models. They commonly have problems burning up the input shaft bearing, 3rd gear going out, and the aluminum/plastic shift selectors burn up. I had 3 NV4500's on my shop floor at one time with the above mentioned problems. Rebuild parts are very expensive and much, much more than T-18 parts would be.

Your current T-18 is superior in strength to the NV4500. A much better option in my opinion would be to install a Ranger Gear Splitter/OD between your bellhousing and the T-18. To do this you would swap in a Ford T-18 input shaft, get rid of the adapter, and your drivetrain length should be just about the same as stock. You may not have to make any driveshaft/crossmember modifications.

With this setup, it would probably be a lot cheaper overall in the long run, you would have a much lower 1st gear in your T-18, you would have 16 forward gears, and still have the 27% OD the NV4500 has. Also this setup would be lighter than the NV4500.

They are on sale at Advance Adapters for $1500.

If you do go with 38" plus tires, you will sooner or later toast your front Dana 44 and Dana 20 transfer case if your 4x4 sees any kind of abuse off road.
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  #5  
Old 11-19-2002, 12:54 AM
64Trvlr 64Trvlr is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by FSJeeper:
NV4500's are not all what they are cracked up to be. Especially with earlier 90's models. They commonly have problems burning up the input shaft bearing, 3rd gear going out, and the aluminum/plastic shift selectors burn up.
I'm running an early 90's NV4500 from a Chevy truck. The nice thing about it is the 6.34 first gear so I won't loose much from the 6:55 first in the SM465 I have now. I bought my 4500 as a core and went through it completely, and since it's going in a 4000# Jeep and not a 1 ton truck pulling a trailer I am confident it will last for a long, long time. I am using a Dana 300 with it and am wondering why you would want to use a D20 instead of a 300?
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  #6  
Old 11-19-2002, 01:42 AM
FSJeeper FSJeeper is offline
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Yep, those NV4500 are plentiful as cores. How much did it cost to rebuild yours? The cheapest I could find rebuild parts for the least damaged NV4500 I had was around $1000. What was wrong with yours to need a complete rebuild? The early 90's Chevy low first gear is nice, but man, that jump between 2nd and 3rd is annoying unless you convert to a Dodge 3rd gear. If you are running a Dana 300 on the Chevy NV4500 that means you also had to buy an adapter. You must have at least $1500 in your NV4500 besides the original purchase price.

For sure though, for your intended purpose and vehicle, I doubt you will ever have a lick of trouble with the NV4500.

The point I was trying to make was that early NV4500's are known to have problems and if you buy a used one, beware cause there is a reason it is out of the vehicle and on the market. And they are expensive to rebuild

BTW, I spent a lot of time drooling over your Traveler at the Friday night Bar B Que in Ouray. I wish I could have figured out who you were and talked FSJ for a while.
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  #7  
Old 11-19-2002, 01:58 AM
64Trvlr 64Trvlr is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by FSJeeper:
What was wrong with yours to need a complete rebuild? If you are running a Dana 300 on the Chevy NV4500 that means you also had to buy an adapter. You must have at least $1500 in your NV4500 besides the original purchase price.
BTW, I spent a lot of time drooling over your Traveler at the Friday night Bar B Que in Ouray. I wish I could have figured out who you were and talked FSJ for a while.
My 4500 needed a slider and bearings. I paid $350 for the core, $200 for the complete master kit and slider. As for the adapter all I needed was a 23 spline Dodge tailshaft ($200) which I swaped when I had it apart. So I've got about $800 in it total.
Thanks for the compliment on my Jeep, you were at KOA right?
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STOLEN! Dana 300 Twin Stick
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  #8  
Old 11-19-2002, 02:10 AM
FSJeeper FSJeeper is offline
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Man, you get the blue ribbon for cheap NV4500 buildups. That is some great parts scrounging. Your prices are similar to what I had, but I had to also buy a input and mainshaft and third gear, etc. which put it out of the cost I wanted to have in it. Went gearsplitter/OD instead with the SM465 for a fraction of what the NV4500 would have been..

I stayed in Ouray in a hotel on the river. Walking distance to the park where the bar b que was. I drove through the KOA several times tying to meet people, but I think the TJ I had rented did not fit in too well and most FSJeepers couldn't be bothered.
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  #9  
Old 11-19-2002, 02:56 AM
64Trvlr 64Trvlr is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by FSJeeper:
Man, you get the blue ribbon for cheap NV4500 buildups. That is some great parts scrounging.

I drove through the KOA several times tying to meet people, but I think the TJ I had rented did not fit in too well and most FSJeepers couldn't be bothered.
Thanks, I bought all the parts new. We waved at EVERY Jeep that drove by us at the KOA. Some stopped and some didn't but we would have enjoyed talking to you.
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41 MB<br />46 CJ-2A 307,T90,D18,27,44,4:27\'S<br />64 Traveler, 350,sm465,np205,44\'s w/4:88\'s, spool, 34X9.50 TSL\'s,3\" factory lift, Line-x interior, PS, Dual Optima\'s, custom overhead console,Warn XD900i,custom bumpers<br /><a href=\"http://images.andale.com/f2/116/106/4651773/1009696569938_64trvlrconsolegrp.JPG\" target=\"_blank\">Overhead C

STOLEN! Dana 300 Twin Stick
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  #10  
Old 11-19-2002, 01:40 PM
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TexasJ10 TexasJ10 is offline
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FSJeeper, did Dodge and Chevy every get the problems corrected, or do the later model NV4500's still suffer from the same problem? I know that these trannys require synthetic gear lube to cope with the heat they generate. I just haven't heard of that many failures with these, but maybe that is because they aren't put to the test often.
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* 1982 Laredo j-10, 360, 727, in rough shape and in the process of being rebuilt with 401, NV4500, Klune,
. NP205,d60 front, d70 rear, fender work and minimal lift. It will probably take 10 years
* 1973 jcab mounted on 1983 j20 frame. 360/t18/208 d44/d60. Almost completed
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  #11  
Old 11-19-2002, 01:42 PM
FSJeeper FSJeeper is offline
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Yes, in later years they got the gear ratio's right and upgraded the weak spots. They still have problems with HD towing in OD.
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  #12  
Old 11-19-2002, 03:40 PM
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Cecil14 Cecil14 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by FSJeeper:
Yes, in later years they got the gear ratio's right and upgraded the weak spots. They still have problems with HD towing in OD.
You're not really suppose to tow in OD anyway, though, are you? I know the owner's manual for my YJ said to only use up to 4th if towing anything.

Anthony
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  #13  
Old 11-19-2002, 04:15 PM
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RustyJeep RustyJeep is offline
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I never towed in OD with our 93 Dodge with the NV4500. And that thing was/is still put to the test all the time. 130,000 miles and not a wimper from the tranny. The truck is up for sale now tho
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  #14  
Old 11-20-2002, 01:16 AM
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I talked to guy at Phoenix rebuilt transmissions yesterday. He confirmed the 93 and 94 Chevy NV4500's had the problems that FSJeeper detailed. Chevy changed their gear selection to the one Dodge was using and the majority of problems went away. The problems they are seeing relate to inproper fluid levels and inproper fluid type. He says these work fine in off angle applications if proper fluid level is maintained, but because they run hot you have to watch it. This may be a severe trail drawback if you ever sprung a leak.
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* 1981 stepside, 360, 727, 208, almost stock daily driver.
* 1982 Laredo j-10, 360, 727, in rough shape and in the process of being rebuilt with 401, NV4500, Klune,
. NP205,d60 front, d70 rear, fender work and minimal lift. It will probably take 10 years
* 1973 jcab mounted on 1983 j20 frame. 360/t18/208 d44/d60. Almost completed
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  #15  
Old 11-20-2002, 02:18 AM
FSJeeper FSJeeper is offline
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QUOTE]You're not really suppose to tow in OD anyway, though, are you? I know the owner's manual for my YJ said to only use up to 4th if towing anything.

Anthony[/QB][/quote]

When you have turbo diesel power making max torque at 1600-1900 rpms, you need to tow in overdrive. The NV4500 has a weak 5th gear that even in newer models still goes out with heavy towing.

The NV5600 6 speed has solved all issues the NV4500 ever had. Good granny, great gear spacing and OD. In my Dodge truck I tow very heavy loads without a squeak from the NV5600. In my opinion, it is the best light truck standard transmission ever made.
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In Process: 91 Wagoneer, D61/71 axles with 3.07 gearing, NV4500, NP205. Cummins 6BT.

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  #16  
Old 11-20-2002, 02:40 AM
Glenn_tx Glenn_tx is offline
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Lost 5th gear nut in my 98 Dodge at 73k miles. Something like $175 for dealer to fix.
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  #17  
Old 11-20-2002, 02:44 AM
FSJeeper FSJeeper is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by GlennTX:
Lost 5th gear nut in my 98 Dodge at 73k miles. Something like $175 for dealer to fix.
Yep, very common. Although I do agree with 64Traveler, for a FSJ used for street and offroad and no HD towing, I think a NV4500 will hold up fine. If it is an earlier model though, I would go through it and make the upgrades.
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  #18  
Old 11-20-2002, 05:26 AM
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The 5600 is definitely the best tranny out there, but I think it is weighs well over 300 pounds and there are not very many adapters for it yet. Doesn't it only come with a 29 spline output? If I thought I could get it to work, those 6 speeds would probably be pretty nice. I'm told the 5th gear nut problem was solved with some sort of set screw. Who knows.
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* 1981 stepside, 360, 727, 208, almost stock daily driver.
* 1982 Laredo j-10, 360, 727, in rough shape and in the process of being rebuilt with 401, NV4500, Klune,
. NP205,d60 front, d70 rear, fender work and minimal lift. It will probably take 10 years
* 1973 jcab mounted on 1983 j20 frame. 360/t18/208 d44/d60. Almost completed
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  #19  
Old 11-22-2002, 02:21 PM
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Elliott Elliott is offline
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FSJeeper, appreciate the comments and I plan to look into the ranger.
BTW, the '01 F350 7.5ltr dually I haul horses with has the NV5600 and that is just a cruisin' son of a gun. Your looking at another $1000. and an extra 9".
I've got three Dana 20s, so I plan to pick up tailshaft conversion and run those till I collect a Dana 300 or two cheap. I know your right about the front axle and I'm scoping for a Dana 60, although I'll be shortening the front drive line 'cause the nose on 60 is some 4"longer than the 44 right?

[ November 22, 2002, 08:22 PM: Message edited by: Elliott ]
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***I can set you up with hydroboost for your brakes: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=106056
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  #20  
Old 11-22-2002, 02:46 PM
matt0481 matt0481 is offline
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Advance Adapters has an adapter for the GM version NV 4500 to the D20. Part #50-0210. Has to have some modifications still after the $600 adapter is bought.
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