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View Poll Results: Which manufacturers Diesel should I go with?? See the thread below before answering
Ford Diesel Engine 4 3.54%
GM Diesel Engine 10 8.85%
Dodge/Cummins Diesel 85 75.22%
Other/Foreign 14 12.39%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 07-31-2009, 08:46 PM
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COLOFIREMAN COLOFIREMAN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyooMac
Isn't the 4L80E a GM transmission that requires a tcm? And the 4L80E mates to the GM 6.5 liter perfectly, no adapter. So wouldn't the 6.5 non turbo be the best option for less headaches?


Yes but with the lack of power, predestination to melt piston heads, injection pump problems, the cost to just rebuild, poor MPG for the end result, and this is just to list a few.

For the initial cost of finding a good running GM, one could find a 6BT non after-coooled version and gain tons. As far as using the tranny, all you have to do is get a motor plate off of the back of a P30 chassis that had a 4BT in it. This will have a TH475, HD version of the TH400, and presto you can bolt it up with nothing custom.


I still vote for the 4BT for these main but not only reasons......weight (4BT)875lbs verses (6BT)1250lbs, MPG, and overall size, which aids in the ease of installing one. <<---- Of course this from one that still has not completed theirs after 2 years......

Last edited by COLOFIREMAN : 08-01-2009 at 09:51 AM.
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  #22  
Old 07-31-2009, 09:02 PM
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6bt is cheapest, can pick up a good donor for ~2k with high mileage.

4bt adapters are frickin' expensive!! Maybe they're cheap/easy to come by in your area, but they want $600+ for an adapter flexplate set-up around here.
Cheapest I've seen a running 4bt donor in this part of the woods is $3k
I searched forever, and never found anything I considered buying.

Found my 6.5/4L80E/NV242 from an H1 Hummer with 88k on the clock.
My cost was just under $1k, and it came with all accessories, wiring & TCM.
PO paid $30k for a Duramax upgrade, wish I had that kind of $$$

I would personally love to install a 4BT, they just get too much money for them around here IMHO.
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  #23  
Old 07-31-2009, 09:12 PM
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Doesn't the 6BT weigh a lot more than the 6.5?
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  #24  
Old 07-31-2009, 10:42 PM
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-AMC V8 540
-Chevy 6.5L Diesel V8 644
-Cummins "12-Valve" 745
I beleive these are Block weight only
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  #25  
Old 08-01-2009, 08:55 AM
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  #26  
Old 08-01-2009, 10:13 AM
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COLOFIREMAN COLOFIREMAN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
6bt is cheapest, can pick up a good donor for ~2k with high mileage.

4bt adapters are frickin' expensive!! Maybe they're cheap/easy to come by in your area, but they want $600+ for an adapter flexplate set-up around here.
Cheapest I've seen a running 4bt donor in this part of the woods is $3k
I searched forever, and never found anything I considered buying.

Found my 6.5/4L80E/NV242 from an H1 Hummer with 88k on the clock.
My cost was just under $1k, and it came with all accessories, wiring & TCM.
PO paid $30k for a Duramax upgrade, wish I had that kind of $$$

I would personally love to install a 4BT, they just get too much money for them around here IMHO.

I agree, a 6.5 non turbo can be had for around you found one for but with all the problems that came from the 6.2 that I had to work on in the Army, makes it just like eating lemons to me..

For the money and the peace of mind, I sell the 4L80E, go with a 6BT non after-cooled, and a Dodge tranny.

Last edited by COLOFIREMAN : 08-01-2009 at 06:09 PM.
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  #27  
Old 08-01-2009, 05:48 PM
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I don't know about anyone else but polls like this make me even more indecisive then when i first started
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  #28  
Old 08-01-2009, 06:22 PM
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PlasticBoob PlasticBoob is offline
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I didn't read every post, but I think some people here didn't see the OP's requirements. Normally I'd suggest a Cummins 4 or 6BT, but based on what he stated, I voted GM diesel, specifically the 6.5L - spend some time on the Hummer forums and you'll see it's not nearly as bad as the 6.2.
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  #29  
Old 08-01-2009, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasticBoob
I didn't read every post, but I think some people here didn't see the OP's requirements. Normally I'd suggest a Cummins 4 or 6BT, but based on what he stated, I voted GM diesel, specifically the 6.5L - spend some time on the Hummer forums and you'll see it's not nearly as bad as the 6.2.

Seeing as how wagoneerlover isn't around right now, may I ask why you'd pick the 6.5L over a 4bt based on his requirements?
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  #30  
Old 08-01-2009, 07:02 PM
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JeepinPete JeepinPete is offline
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I was swapping an Isuzu 4BD in my Cherokee. Unfortunately I ran out of time, money, and desire, in no particular order.

To me an Isuzu 4BD and a Cummins 4BT are interchangable as far as power, economy, and durability are concerned. The Isuzu 4BD series were installed in the NPR box trucks, GVW up to 15k lbs or so. So they have plenty of power to move around a FSJ. My choice between the two would come done to which I found for a good price.

If you are going to do this swap in a '79 or earlier FSJ, the Isuzu would be a cleaner swap. The exhaust and starter are opposite of the front driveshaft. You will have use hydraboost. '80 and later, the Cummins would be the cleaner swap for the same reasons.

Wagoneerlover, I've got the complete drivetrain waiting to go in someone's FSJ
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  #31  
Old 08-01-2009, 07:06 PM
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PlasticBoob PlasticBoob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jMedia
Seeing as how wagoneerlover isn't around right now, may I ask why you'd pick the 6.5L over a 4bt based on his requirements?

Well honestly I know squat about diesel conversions, but I do plan on swapping in a 4BT in the future. IIRC When I was doing my diesel swap research, the 6.2/6.5 was the best way to go with the least amount of trouble. I could be wrong though, that was over a year ago. Seems that the 6.5 meets Wagoneerlover's requirements for being:

1) Something you can get your hands on. Out here in So. Cal., I see lots of 6.2/6.5s for sale but rarely a proper 4BT or even the Step Van they came in for sale. The GM diesels were cheaper too. Again, my info is a little dated so this may have changed recently.

2) Something realistic. Supposedly even the 4BT weighs so much that you may need different springs, etc. Supposedly the 6.2/6.5 are much lighter and if it does bolt right up to the 4L80E then that cuts out some expense.

3) Actually I have no idea if the 6.5 operates independently of the trans.

Don't crucify me if my info is wrong, my memory is a little fuzzy on this since I won't be doing my diesel swap for at least a few more years and one more 401.

Personally I will be going with a 4BT no matter what the costs/headache, but I did give serious thought to the GM diesels too.
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  #32  
Old 08-01-2009, 07:08 PM
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KyooMac KyooMac is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasticBoob
I didn't read every post, but I think some people here didn't see the OP's requirements. Normally I'd suggest a Cummins 4 or 6BT, but based on what he stated, I voted GM diesel, specifically the 6.5L - spend some time on the Hummer forums and you'll see it's not nearly as bad as the 6.2.

I worked on HMMWV's in the Corps and the 6.2 Liter diesel was a POS, but GM worked the kinks out of the 6.5L and he already has a 4L80E. I love diesel and the 4BT and 6BT are great motors. But I think the weight issue is being overlooked. If we're going to go with what we would really want then I vote a Continental V-12 750 hp air-cooled, twin-turbocharged diesel engine, that came in the M60 tanks I also worked on in the Corps. A couple of AAL's and he'll be OK.
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  #33  
Old 08-02-2009, 12:02 AM
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gotmike gotmike is offline
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i believe he can get a standalone computer setup for the 4l80E... and then he can mate it to anything he wants... i know that cummins will fit up there... i've got one in mine... and it's an awesome setup... i also know that the 6.5 rev's much higher and can be built to run like a freight train... but i'd still go with the cummins if i could... the only downfall is the height of the motor... he can set it very high in the engine bay to keep his ride height down but he will have to put a dana 60 up front with much heavier springs and at least a dana 60 in the rear as well... i'd vote for a dana 70 hd or a 14 bolt... but then again i'd also trade that auto for an NV4500 or a NV 5600 6-speed... both can be found mated to a cummins from the factory so they're easy to setup...
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  #34  
Old 08-03-2009, 11:47 PM
Wagoneerlover Wagoneerlover is offline
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The 4bt sounds like it might be a winner. Jeepingpete, I will send you a pm perhaps there is an adapter around for the isuzu engine. (Although the rig that I am eying is probably going to be a 90, (The rig that it would go in) If I can wrestle it away from the shop that it has been sitting at for like two years (All of a sudden right when I want it though there are customers who have been eyeing it and he wants top dollar for it) it is in great shape though but I hate when shops/people do that!


Gotmike, yes I could purchase a stand alone controller for the 4l80e but I refuse to do so when I know how to make a controller for the 4l80e myself.
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  #35  
Old 08-04-2009, 10:12 AM
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My Isuzu has an adapter already for a SBC patterned transmission. Your 4L80E will bolt right up. I had it installed with a Chevy NV3500, drove it around the yard a bit, but never finished it up enough to take it on the road.
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  #36  
Old 08-04-2009, 10:21 AM
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This thread over on 4btswaps.com highlights a lot of transmission options for the Isuzu 4BD engines. It's geared towards manual transmissions, but there's a lot of good info there.
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  #37  
Old 08-04-2009, 10:45 PM
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I love the Cummins 6BT, I have one that I would like to put in my wag, but they weigh 1200 lbs and that can't be ignored.
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  #38  
Old 08-04-2009, 11:22 PM
Wagoneerlover Wagoneerlover is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carleysjeep
I love the Cummins 6BT, I have one that I would like to put in my wag, but they weigh 1200 lbs and that can't be ignored.

I think an engine like that would be more suited to a chevy suburban or a Ford Bronco or something like that. Big vehicles you know? The wag simply is too small a rig for a 1200 pound engine. (I know it can be done but really like stated I feel that the 6bt is too big and heavy and more suited to larger SUV's and pickups.
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  #39  
Old 08-04-2009, 11:37 PM
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I was pretty scared of the 6BT in my wagoneer with the weight and all, but it actually handles really well and is well balanced. It has excellent road manors. the previous owner did however install 2" drop shackles in the front since that is how much the engine dropped the ride height.
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  #40  
Old 08-12-2009, 06:12 AM
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DAHoyle DAHoyle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattmopar440
4bt or 6bt Cummins Turbo inline motor powerfull most reliable engines out there Powerchoke would be a nightmare to swap in there most 4BT come with a chevy bolt pattern for your trans


Minor correction here.
Most Cummins 4BT do not come with a GM bolt pattern.
The Cummins uses a Bellhousing adapter which goes between the engine and bellhousing, and there are many many versions available.

GM
Ford small block pattern
at least 2 Dodge Patterns
SAE2
and SAE3.

Of all of those, I would say that the GM and Ford pattern are the least common.

There are plenty of GM adapters out there, for a Automatic, but the flywheel for a manual is rare as hens teeth.
Given the number of Cummins powered Dodges out there, I would have to say that the most common bellhousing adapters are 'you guessed it, Dodge. There are many many times more Dodges sporting the Cummins than there are Bread vans.

Which is most common is pretty much irrelevant, since on any given day, a search on one of the forums or craigslist, or Ebay, will generally find you which one you desire, with the exception of the SAE versions. You can find them at truck salvage yards and such, but you have to know what you are looking for. All the newer bread vans and delivery trucks are running the SAE adapters, generally the SAE3.
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Last edited by DAHoyle : 08-12-2009 at 06:22 AM.
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