International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tire Kickin' > General FSJ Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-22-2011, 10:56 AM
Tigger4X's Avatar
Tigger4X Tigger4X is offline
AMC 4 OH! 1
 
Join Date: Nov 16, 2001
Location: Eugeniastan, Orygun Central Blok
Posts: 4,223
Question 258 and an OD trans - Is it possible?

I'd rather have a 5 speed myself, but this bugger is gonna be for a friend of mine who is currently living in Misery (MO). Is there an overdrive auto trans that will bolt up to the 258 without any real fuss? And if so what t-case will run behind it? Of course its on a budget so I'm trying to steer away from adapters at all cost unless they are budget or cheaper than another route to get the final desired powertrain. I tried the search feature on here but 3 character search terms no workie! Thanks in advance all!



EDIT : Once its all figured out I'm gonna be looking for the items needed to convert it over so please keep me in mind for what you got taking up space.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by will e
Keep in mind. Getting old is easy. Being old is hard.
Post #14 ~ http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...=1#post1580206

Last edited by Tigger4X : 01-22-2011 at 10:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-22-2011, 11:18 AM
CJ the noisemaker's Avatar
CJ the noisemaker CJ the noisemaker is offline
Bleedin' Gasoline
 
Join Date: Nov 29, 2009
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 2,349
My vote would be the AW4 since it is a native to the I6 engines, and plentiful; However, you would need gears lower than 3.73, the wiring for the tranny, an adapter for the tranny to the TC or a slip yoke eliminator if you use the standard case, and the AW4 flexplate.

I've been told this before, so you'll get the same response.
__________________
CJ
[/color][/size] -1985 Ford LTD Country Squire "Rarity" - 302/AOD
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-22-2011, 11:32 AM
addicted's Avatar
addicted addicted is offline
Big Meanie
 
Join Date: Dec 11, 2004
Location: Byron, MI
Posts: 4,876
AW4 from an XJ is the only OD that will bolt up without any adapters but will need a few extra things hooked up to run it without some sort of driver operated controller. They are electrically operated and pretty simple to figure out.
__________________
Quote:
Originally posted by Ristow
i bet it was Simon....
he's such big meanie that way...
please don't tell him i said that....
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-22-2011, 11:37 AM
Gambler68's Avatar
Gambler68 Gambler68 is offline
Rabble Rouser
 
Join Date: Feb 29, 2004
Location: Ignacio, Colorado, USA
Posts: 14,082
Since it's the same bellhousing as a 360, with a Novak or AA adaptor, any OD trans that bolts to those will work on a 258. They have one for a 700R4 IIRC.
__________________
1979 Chero S "Sundog" 1979 Chero S "Hammer"
1968 327 J3000 1978 J10SWB
The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.
Hunter S. Thompson .

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-22-2011, 11:37 AM
1983 j10's Avatar
1983 j10 1983 j10 is offline
Gear Head
 
Join Date: Apr 13, 2008
Location: ohio
Posts: 728
yep aw4 would be the way to go they are strong trans i have an xj with it and put it thourgh a lot with out any trouple and you can run different gears my stock xj has 3.55's in it and i know other people that are running 4.10's and 35's with out any issues from it.
__________________
1983 j10 lwb soon to be a 4.5l stroker AMC 20 rear 44 front 4spd manual in the process of restoring

01 xj 3" and 31's
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-22-2011, 11:37 AM
addicted's Avatar
addicted addicted is offline
Big Meanie
 
Join Date: Dec 11, 2004
Location: Byron, MI
Posts: 4,876
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ the noisemaker
My vote would be the AW4 since it is a native to the I6 engines, and plentiful; However, you would need gears lower than 3.73, the wiring for the tranny, an adapter for the tranny to the TC or a slip yoke eliminator if you use the standard case, and the AW4 flexplate.

I've been told this before, so you'll get the same response.

3.54 gears will work fine as will 3.07's but it will be a bit of a dog with the 3.07's. Both gears were used in the XJ's 3.55's are what i've seen most often. You can also use the 231 or 242 in it's stock form as long as there is no lift associated with the truck. I am running an AW4 with a 208 and I had to use a spacer to make it work. You will also need new drive shafts either way along with crossmember work, as the AW4 is rather long.
__________________
Quote:
Originally posted by Ristow
i bet it was Simon....
he's such big meanie that way...
please don't tell him i said that....
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-22-2011, 12:05 PM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 20, 2006
Location: The Great Googley Moogley Midwest.
Posts: 17,022
Quote:
AW4 from an XJ is the only OD that will bolt up without any adapters

don't forget the A500 was also used behind the 4.0.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hankrod
Ristows right.................again,




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
I LOVE how Ristow has stolen my comment about him ... "Quoted" it ... and made himself famous for being an ***hole to people. Hahahahahahahahahha!


→ Where the kids hang out...

fsjbuilder.org come for the mindless chat,stay for the hand drawn emoticons.

It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting...and knitting...and knitting...and knitting...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-22-2011, 12:16 PM
addicted's Avatar
addicted addicted is offline
Big Meanie
 
Join Date: Dec 11, 2004
Location: Byron, MI
Posts: 4,876
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ristow
don't forget the A500 was also used behind the 4.0.

Yes Ristow, you are right yet again.

That's the trans used in the Grand Cherokees. The AW4 has a much better reputation. Although the one in my '04 WJ has almost 200K on it and the only issue it ever had was a sticky solenoid around 65K.
__________________
Quote:
Originally posted by Ristow
i bet it was Simon....
he's such big meanie that way...
please don't tell him i said that....
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-22-2011, 12:19 PM
AMC-J/20's Avatar
AMC-J/20 AMC-J/20 is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Dec 17, 2009
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger4X
I'd rather have a 5 speed myself, but this bugger is gonna be for a friend of mine who is currently living in Misery (MO). Is there an overdrive auto trans that will bolt up to the 258 without any real fuss? And if so what t-case will run behind it? Of course its on a budget so I'm trying to steer away from adapters unless they are budget or cheaper than another route to get the final desired powertrain. I tried the search feature on here but 3 character search terms no workie! Thanks in advance all!



EDIT : Once its all figured out I'm gonna be looking for the items needed to convert it over so please keep me in mind for what you got taking up space.

Jeep used a 258/T5 combo, the MJ/XJ AW-4 should also mate right up.
Anyhting the 242/4.0L mated to so will the 258 and 290-401 V8s for that matter.

T-5 / AX-15 / NV3550 / AW-4 / ???? Don't recall the other A/T-OD . . .

Mike
__________________
1953 REO M48.
1962 GMC C3000.
1969 AMC AMX-390 Resto.
1971 AMC/Jeep J4000DRW.
1983 AMC Eagle project SX/290.
1988 AMC/Jeep project MJ/343.
1989 Jeep GrandWagoneer.
1991 Dodge Ram-Charger.

A M C Means Jeep to me
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-22-2011, 12:47 PM
CJ the noisemaker's Avatar
CJ the noisemaker CJ the noisemaker is offline
Bleedin' Gasoline
 
Join Date: Nov 29, 2009
Location: Tempe, AZ
Posts: 2,349
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMC-J/20
Jeep used a 258/T5 combo, the MJ/XJ AW-4 should also mate right up.
Anyhting the 242/4.0L mated to so will the 258 and 290-401 V8s for that matter.

T-5 / AX-15 / NV3550 / AW-4 / ???? Don't recall the other A/T-OD . . .

Mike
Has anybody mated an AW4 to a 304?
__________________
CJ
[/color][/size] -1985 Ford LTD Country Squire "Rarity" - 302/AOD
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-22-2011, 01:23 PM
AMC-J/20's Avatar
AMC-J/20 AMC-J/20 is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Dec 17, 2009
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,326
Not sure but I would figure so it'll bolt together anyway, Tho I am told some AMC-V8s require a larger pilot hole in the end of the crank shaft.

AW-4 holds up to 4.0 & 4.6-5.0 I6 strokers, So I would imagine it would do well behind the 304.
Mike
__________________
1953 REO M48.
1962 GMC C3000.
1969 AMC AMX-390 Resto.
1971 AMC/Jeep J4000DRW.
1983 AMC Eagle project SX/290.
1988 AMC/Jeep project MJ/343.
1989 Jeep GrandWagoneer.
1991 Dodge Ram-Charger.

A M C Means Jeep to me
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-22-2011, 01:47 PM
AMC-J/20's Avatar
AMC-J/20 AMC-J/20 is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Dec 17, 2009
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 1,326
87'-01' 242/4.0L I6 = 177-195hp & 220-235tq in net power.

So given the 304s 150hp & 225tq or the 258s 150hp & 240tq I would say the AW-4 would hold up fine between either power plant.

I'd say judging by the power numbers it should hold up just fine.
Mike
__________________
1953 REO M48.
1962 GMC C3000.
1969 AMC AMX-390 Resto.
1971 AMC/Jeep J4000DRW.
1983 AMC Eagle project SX/290.
1988 AMC/Jeep project MJ/343.
1989 Jeep GrandWagoneer.
1991 Dodge Ram-Charger.

A M C Means Jeep to me
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-22-2011, 02:31 PM
comanchemty's Avatar
comanchemty comanchemty is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 15, 2011
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 29
A performance trans builder near me claims that the aw-4 can hold up to 600 lbs of torque if built right. He said the TC must be replaced.
__________________
When my engine stops dripping oil , I know its time to add more.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-22-2011, 03:05 PM
Stuka's Avatar
Stuka Stuka is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 21, 2001
Location: Twain Harte, California
Posts: 13,743
The problem with the AW4 is that it is electronically controlled from the engine ECU. I am not sure if you could run one on a carbed 258. If you swap in the 4.0 that is connected to it, then you are fine.

But with that said, my Wife's '89 XJ has 173k miles on the original 4.0/AW4, and it still shifts and drives well.
__________________
Full Size Jeep Network

1981 J10 AMC 258 with TFI and Weber 32/36 DGEV Carb with a BJ's Aluminum Radiator, T176, NP208, D44/M23 with 4.56 gears and Detroit Locker, 6" lift, 33x12.50 TSL's, BJ's Offroad Rear Bumper.

1975 Cherokee *Sold*
1989 XJ Limited *Sold*
2005 KJ Limited 3.7, 42RLE, NP242
2008 JK 3.8, 6sp, NP241, 2.5", 33's, 4.56's
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-22-2011, 03:30 PM
1983 j10's Avatar
1983 j10 1983 j10 is offline
Gear Head
 
Join Date: Apr 13, 2008
Location: ohio
Posts: 728
it reads some from the ecu but for the most part it has its own ecu and i know a few people that swapped aw4's in to cj's and just used the trans ecu. (i know because i sold them the trans ecu's)
__________________
1983 j10 lwb soon to be a 4.5l stroker AMC 20 rear 44 front 4spd manual in the process of restoring

01 xj 3" and 31's
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-22-2011, 05:55 PM
pineymike's Avatar
pineymike pineymike is offline
Gear Head
 
Join Date: Feb 22, 2008
Location: south jersey
Posts: 506
Why not?

How about an aw4/4.0 head swap,with an XJ as a donor with everything needed shouldn't be cost prohibitive?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-22-2011, 06:08 PM
addicted's Avatar
addicted addicted is offline
Big Meanie
 
Join Date: Dec 11, 2004
Location: Byron, MI
Posts: 4,876
Thinking about it more. Swapping in a 42RH from an early 4.0 powered ZJ would probably be pretty easy. They had very few electronics and are basically an OD version of a 904/999. Thats if the 42RH was used in the ZJ's and not the 42RE from the start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pineymike
How about an aw4/4.0 head swap,with an XJ as a donor with everything needed shouldn't be cost prohibitive?

That would basically be the same as swapping in a whole 4.0. Only more work.
__________________
Quote:
Originally posted by Ristow
i bet it was Simon....
he's such big meanie that way...
please don't tell him i said that....
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-22-2011, 06:22 PM
Eaglefreek's Avatar
Eaglefreek Eaglefreek is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 19, 2010
Location: Fayetteville, TN
Posts: 141
The AW4 Will bolt to the 258. You will need the 4.0 flexplate, torque converter, starter, shifter and TCU. The TCU (Transmission Control Unit) is separate an will require some wiring and a TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) mounted to the carb. Like mentioned in previous posts, you will need to figure out what transfer case you want to use and lengthen and shorten driveshafts. I recently went through this conundrum with my AMC Eagle when the transmission recently went out. It's my daily driver and gets 16-17 mpg and would love to save a couple bucks on gas. My decision was the extra cost would take quite some time to recoup and not worth the extra effort. Instead I'm looking for a cheap pile of crap 4 cyl. for running into town.
__________________
86 AMC Eagle 258/4.0 head
87 AMC Eagle 5.3L, 4L60E, Explorer 8.8, Dana 44 on 35's

Last edited by Eaglefreek : 01-22-2011 at 07:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-22-2011, 07:03 PM
jaber's Avatar
jaber jaber is offline
Dragin Az
 
Join Date: Oct 17, 2003
Location: Chino Valley, Arizona
Posts: 8,054
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ the noisemaker
Has anybody mated an AW4 to a 304?

One of the NE guys was talking about a friend that did just this in a Javalin.
Wanna say it was Greg, but not sure..
__________________
Jeff


46 cj2a

51 Willys p/u
'51 Willys Parkway Conversion
'74 CJ5
'75 J-20 Wrecker
'75 J-20 Cummins service bed
'77 J-10 p/u
'79 Cherokee
'88 Grand Wagoneer
http://s252.photobucket.com/albums/hh14/jeffaber/
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-22-2011, 09:15 PM
68J2000's Avatar
68J2000 68J2000 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 09, 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 98
The only problem you might run into with the AW4 is what transfer-case to use, you cant use the NP242 or the NP231 because the front drive-shaft drop is on the driver side unlike yours which is passenger side. I think if you use a post-93 AW-4 you can mate it up to the Dana-300, but don't take my word on that I can't fully remember. Aside from that it's an excellent transmission and will hold up just fine behind the 258. Best of luck to you on whatever you use.
__________________
1968 J2000 Gladiator : AMC 304, AX15 5 speed, Dana 300, Dana 44/44 4.27 Gears (W.I.P.)

1969 Triumph GT6+ : 6cyl, 4speed, resto in order, (on the back burner)

2015 Ram 2500 CCLB 6cyl Cummins, Stock
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Using 4.0 head on 258 block with aw4 trans? CJ the noisemaker General FSJ Discussion 2 11-16-2010 08:19 AM
258 Manual trans, mesurment please mdill General FSJ Tech 0 06-13-2008 08:49 PM
Will 258 trans fit 304-360? trellis8 General FSJ Discussion 4 09-26-2007 08:40 AM
is there a manual trans for a 258? J10Joe General FSJ Tech 5 11-04-2005 01:26 PM
will a 258 and a 400 trans work jeeps4bdv General FSJ Tech 1 05-29-2002 05:44 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner