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  #21  
Old 10-11-2019, 10:38 AM
'89_Wagon '89_Wagon is offline
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Here are some wiring diagrams. Keep note that the manual transmission wiring and automatic wiring is shown side by side.

Brake Sense


Starter Relay


Back up Lights. Can also see that the P/N swtich grounds out here.


Downstream backup lights diagram. No reference to fuses or relays.
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  #22  
Old 10-14-2019, 10:41 AM
'89_Wagon '89_Wagon is offline
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Did some more work on the wiring harness.

Here's the fuse block I'm using from a 95/96 cherokee. I've already prepped this one and removed/moved some circuits for my needs. I'll do a write-up on this in another post.

Back side with cover removed.


Here's the bracket with some extraneous stuff cut off (left)


Here's everything mounted in the engine bay using the spot where some of the cruise control used to be.


This is before I prepped the fuse/relay block so there are a ton of extra wires hanging out the back. I checked the clearance with some play-do and there seems to be about 1/2" of clearance between the hood and fuse block.


Now some more helpful wiring diagrams. These confirm that the TPS signal is shared between the TCU and ECM, the sensor ground from the TCU can go straight to ground, the TPS ground can go straight to ground, and the 4WD sense circuit does not communicate to the AW4 TCU. I removed those wires from the plug.


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  #23  
Old 10-14-2019, 10:57 AM
pickledtoast pickledtoast is offline
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Thanks for posting the wiring diagrams.

So for the TCU, it's power, ground (chassis and sensor), TPS, brake light signal, and the 4 wires to the AW4 (3 to the solenoids, one to the VSS). That's what it seems like to me. The VSS/solenoids need power from somewhere. Those 3 solenoid wires are what you intercept if you want to shift it manually.

I ordered my AW4 flexplate today, mostly so I can bench run my trans before getting too involved with the swap.
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  #24  
Old 10-14-2019, 07:09 PM
'89_Wagon '89_Wagon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pickledtoast
Thanks for posting the wiring diagrams.

So for the TCU, it's power, ground (chassis and sensor), TPS, brake light signal, and the 4 wires to the AW4 (3 to the solenoids, one to the VSS). That's what it seems like to me. The VSS/solenoids need power from somewhere. Those 3 solenoid wires are what you intercept if you want to shift it manually.

I ordered my AW4 flexplate today, mostly so I can bench run my trans before getting too involved with the swap.

In a nut shell, that sounds right. Looks like the tcu powers the solenoids directly.

Here are the wires from the ECU harness that need to be connected. Everything else is kept within the harness. Haven't tested this wiring.. but have done quite a bit of research.

Yellow: Ignition 12+ in start and run
White/Orange - brake sense: See relay wiring in previous post.
Red: Battery 12+
Brown/Green: Backup lights. Connect to Brown/White wire on GW backup
light plug.

Brown/Yellow: Park/Neutral sense. Connect to starter relay. Black/White wire
on GW NSS plug.

Blue/White: NSS power. 12+ in start and run.

Why do you need the flexplate to bench run it? Are you going to turn the transmission with it? I would like to bench run mine and confirm the wiring before I drop everything too.

Last edited by '89_Wagon : 10-14-2019 at 07:20 PM.
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  #25  
Old Yesterday, 05:42 AM
pickledtoast pickledtoast is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by '89_Wagon
Why do you need the flexplate to bench run it? Are you going to turn the transmission with it? I would like to bench run mine and confirm the wiring before I drop everything too.
Yeah, I plan to spin the torque converter on a bench and the flywheel will help with that. Also I will be able to measure the difference between the 360 and the 4.0 flexplate in terms of where the torque converter mounts. That way I can design a spacer/adapter to reuse the 360 balanced flexplate and starter with the 4.0 torque converter, hopefully.

Assuming the 360 and 4.0 crank flanges are in the same spot, big assumption there.
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  #26  
Old Yesterday, 07:26 AM
'89_Wagon '89_Wagon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pickledtoast
Yeah, I plan to spin the torque converter on a bench and the flywheel will help with that. Also I will be able to measure the difference between the 360 and the 4.0 flexplate in terms of where the torque converter mounts. That way I can design a spacer/adapter to reuse the 360 balanced flexplate and starter with the 4.0 torque converter, hopefully.

Assuming the 360 and 4.0 crank flanges are in the same spot, big assumption there.

I'm debating going this route, although I'm not sure if a spacer I made would work all that well. Would Love to see what you come up with.

How much does it cost to balance a flexplate? The aw4 starter and flexplate is $100-$150 total + flexplate balancing.
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  #27  
Old Yesterday, 07:32 AM
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The flex plate and starter for the 4L and AW4 is a direct bolt up to any of the AMC V8 engine and bell housing. The solenoid is on the the 4L starter so, you will have to wire it up as such.
Don't forget to have the AW4 flex plate match balanced to the 727 Flex Plate. It costs between $30.00 and $50.00 depending how well you know your machinist.
Any machinist should be able to do that for you. If you have a problem, send them both to me and I will get it done for you.
http://theamcforum.com/forum/aw4-con...opic15549.html

Last edited by SC/397 : Yesterday at 07:43 AM.
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  #28  
Old Yesterday, 07:42 AM
pickledtoast pickledtoast is offline
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I guess you would need the crank/damper to balance the flexplate, as the 360 flexplate is not zero balance. Or you can probably eyeball the 360 flexplate weight and holes and copy them on the AW4 flexplate.

I have overlaid 360 flexplate images and the rectangular weight is not always in the same exact spot. In other words, I think eyeball/close enough is probably ok if you were to use the 4.0/AW4 flexplate. Not something I would want to do though.

I just replaced my 360 starter and I'm stubborn so I'm going to keep the 360 stuff.
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  #29  
Old Yesterday, 07:49 AM
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No, you don't need a crank adapter of any kind. They just mount the 360 flex plate on the balancing machine and find out how many grams heavy it is at the weight. Then, they mount the 4L flex plate in and find out where it is light. They mark it and weld on a weight in the exact same spot as the 360 which is all relative to the mounting holes. They will weld or take metal away until they are with a gram or less of each other. No eyeballing and pretty simple to do.
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  #30  
Old Yesterday, 07:50 AM
pickledtoast pickledtoast is offline
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Yeah, makes sense. Should be a simple job for those equipped and a smart solution overall.
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  #31  
Old Yesterday, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC/397
The flex plate and starter for the 4L and AW4 is a direct bolt up to any of the AMC V8 engine and bell housing. The solenoid is on the the 4L starter so, you will have to wire it up as such.


Hey SC/397,


Have you bolted the 4.0L flexplate to a 401 successfully? Derf over at FSJN (https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/vie...16914&p=174675) has said there are issues with the 360/4.0L flywheels on a 401, but I don't know if that is universal or applies to the flexplates as well. Just curious.


I have been running one in my Daughter's Javelin behind a 304 for years now. Anything that will bolt to a 4L Jeep engine will bolt to the V8's. There shouldn't be a problem if it is a 360 or a 401. You just have to add weight to it to balance it. There is no difference between 401's and the rest of the V8 engines. One key thing to remember is to put the 1/8" dirt shield in between the bell housing and the engine. If you don't, it will throw everything off by that much.
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Last edited by SC/397 : Yesterday at 01:35 PM.
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  #32  
Old Yesterday, 10:04 AM
'89_Wagon '89_Wagon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC/397
The flex plate and starter for the 4L and AW4 is a direct bolt up to any of the AMC V8 engine and bell housing. The solenoid is on the the 4L starter so, you will have to wire it up as such.
Don't forget to have the AW4 flex plate match balanced to the 727 Flex Plate. It costs between $30.00 and $50.00 depending how well you know your machinist.
Any machinist should be able to do that for you. If you have a problem, send them both to me and I will get it done for you.
http://theamcforum.com/forum/aw4-con...opic15549.html

Oh good... $30 to $50 is not so bad. If the machine shop close to me isn't up for it, I'l be sure to reach out to you. Thanks!

Didn't look at solenoid differences in the wiring.... thanks for the heads up.
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  #33  
Old Yesterday, 01:49 PM
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Here is a link that shows the difference in AMC V8 flywheels and flex plates.
http://rebsamcandjeep.proboards.com/...els-flexplates
The 6 cyl and V8 AMC flywheels and flex plates have the same bolt pattern and crank embosment after 1972. I guess that I should post up pictures of the 4L flex plate for a comparison. There is a different off-set for the starter ring gear between the 6 cylinder engines and V8's. (need to double check this). So, if you use the 4L flex plate AND the 4L starter on the V8 there is no alignment issues.
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  #34  
Old Yesterday, 02:10 PM
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On a latemodel '88-up it uses the same starter as a 4.0
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  #35  
Old Yesterday, 02:57 PM
'89_Wagon '89_Wagon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
On a latemodel '88-up it uses the same starter as a 4.0

Fantastic! One less thing to buy. I have an '89.

I wonder if I can just bolt my 360 flexplate up to the aw4 torque converter then..

Last edited by '89_Wagon : Yesterday at 04:39 PM.
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