Need some engine advice to get the GW back on the road!

[Subconscious]

Hello all

It's been a while since I've posted here. I'm glad to see that the site is running well, and lots of Full-Size Jeepers are still running strong.

I ran into some personal health issues a while back, and my Jeep had to take a low priority. It's a bone stock 87 Grand Wagoneer, right down to the radio. Details in the sig line below.

It's sat for about three years now. Tires are shot. I put a new battery in it, and got it to fire up and run, but is idling very rough. Could be old gas, but I did see that some of the emissions stuff has sort of rotted away. There's a small metallic canister that's rusted in two, not sure of its purpose, and it also sounds like there's a cracked exhaust manifold now.

I want to get it up and running again. My (shameface) commuter car is dying now, but I don't commute anymore, so it's time for me to go back to the Jeep.

Before I stopped driving it on a regular basis, it would occasionally cut off and refuse to start again for 15-20 minutes, but only in city traffic, not on the interstate. I thought it was vapor locking, but never fully diagnosed the problem since it was the "third car" at the time.

Now however, I need it to start up easily, and run without cutting off. I need it to be reliable. It currently has between 10K-15K on a purchased rebuilt engine, installed before I bought it, so the block and heads should be in good shape still.

My question to the forum is, for best reliability, should I:

1) De-smog the engine, clean up all those potential vacuum leaks, rebuild the carb.

2) Install a new intake and better carb,probably de-smogging the engine in the process.

3) Swap engines to something like a Ford or Chevy V-8. I've always been a Ford guy myself, partial to the 351C like my old Mustnag had once upon a time. It would have to be an "older" one, because I don't think I'm up for integrating computer controls/ignition systems. That's a weak spot for me.

I have a concern that the ignition system may be the culprit in my engine not running well. I think there's room for improvement over the stock one. Is there a simple, reliable ignition upgrade that would help? Once upon a time, I put a device called a Jacobs Energy System in an old Land Cruiser, and it made a HUGE difference in how it ran - smoothed out the idle, better mileage, easy starts. Googling around, it looks like they're gone now though.

Any advice you can offer would be most appreciated. I need to get my old Jeep on the road again, before its spot in the driveway becomes its permanent resting place. It doesn't deserve that, and there'll be honest politicians in DC before I buy a BS car like they're making today.

ETA: I'm not opposed to switching it to a throttle body fuel injection system, or something like that either. I just need to get a plan together to save up the cash for it.

If it all goes to heck, I'll put on my sadface and sell it, and buy a Suburban or something. I don't want to do that though ...

[joe]

First thing is fix your obvious vacuum leaks. Actually first get that 3 year old gas out of the tank, carb and lines. If it's got 3 year old E10 in it...it's gone bad, even if you put stabil in it before layup it's bad after 3 years. All your rubber fuel system bits soaked in E10 for 3 years are prolly also deteriorated. In humid SC I'd also make sure your cap/rotor are 100%, odds are there's corrosion inside. Basically once you've got fresh clean fuel in the entire system do a full tuneup, ignition first, then carb. Once "sure" your ign system is 100% you may have to rebuild the carb. Have you checked for a mouse house inside the air cleaner?
Fresh fuel,vac leaks, good hot properly timed spark, carb. With only 10-15k miles on the motor hold off on the EFI or eng swap. Sledge hammer to kill flies is rarely a good plan. Figure out what your "small rusted in two canister" is and replace it. What's connected to it? Could be diverter valve for the air injection system, could be vac can for cruise control.???? Not enough info?
Don't desmog, by just tearing off parts you don't understand what their function is. Get it running right before you start modifying things.

[Subconscious]

Here is the canister that rusted in two. It's attached to the air manifold that is attached to the passenger side exhaust manifold.



As far as "tearing things out that you don't know what they do", to paraphrase, that's why I'm here. I don't want to restore a marginally effective and complex attempt at an emission control system if it's easier to rip it out and just pop an Performer intake and a Predator carb on it and get on down the road.

SC has no emissions testing.

[Subconscious]

Is there where we talk about Full Size Jeeps?

<crickets>

I'll definitely get the old gas out.

Next, I suppose I'm going to start yanking the smog pump and associated hosiery and miscellaneous devices in preparation for a Performer intake and aftermarket carb.

Need to upgrade the ignition, will look into Mallory and others.

I'm going to be "that guy". The guy who takes an unmolested Jeep and starts the process of "making it better".

Hopefully it'll be more reliable when I'm done, maybe even squeeze out some more MPG. Surely we can get better mileage with a modern carb & intake, the factory "11 city, 13 highway" on the sticker is just ... wow ...

[Suddendeath]

My truck came with the AIR system removed, so I can't give you any advice on that process. Seems pretty straight forward.

I would be careful to pin-point your issues before you really start tearing into it like with an intake/carb. Replace every vacuum line you can find under the hood if you're not sure where to start.

Get it running right before you start modifying things, that way you have a base-line to start with when you dig into it with the new shiny parts.

[FSJ Guy]

Here is the canister that rusted in two. It's attached to the air manifold that is attached to the passenger side exhaust manifold.



As far as "tearing things out that you don't know what they do", to paraphrase, that's why I'm here. I don't want to restore a marginally effective and complex attempt at an emission control system if it's easier to rip it out and just pop an Performer intake and a Predator carb on it and get on down the road.

SC has no emissions testing.

That part shown above is part of your AIR injection system. It could also be the source of your exhaust tick. Below the broken off part is a check valve that is designed to prevent exhaust coming out of it (fresh air is supposed to be injected into the manifold when the engine is cold) but they're not perfect so they can make some noise when opened up like that.

I would recommend keeping the emissions equipment. It will be easier if you ever sell the rig and you never know when E-testing will come to your state. They took it away in my area and then brought it back again.

You can get new manifold and air injection tubes. (BJ's Offroad, I think)

As mentioned earlier, replace all your vacuum lines. Find the correct routing here: http://www.oljeep.com/

As for fuel injection, I am a big fan of it. You can do a DIY system for several hundred dollars and 6 months reading up on it and a little bit of tuning. Or you can buy a bolt-on system (except for welding in an O2 sensor bung) for under $2K that requires no tuning. If you can install a radio, you can install a turnkey TBI system.

The stock 2 bbl carb is fine. Yours probably could use a rebuild and/or adjustment if it's never been touched. Nothing wrong with the intake, either. But a Performer intake is a popular upgrade. I can't say how much it helps because I upgraded to a 401 at the same time. ;-)

RE ignition, the stock ignition is fine, but old. If it craps out on you, replacements have a bad history of not lasting as long. You can do a plug n play swap with an MSD 6A box with the right adapters. The MSD 6A is tough as nails IMHO.

[Rich88]

....

My question to the forum is, for best reliability, should I:

1) De-smog the engine, clean up all those potential vacuum leaks, rebuild the carb.

2) Install a new intake and better carb,probably de-smogging the engine in the process.

3) Swap engines to something like a Ford or Chevy V-8. I've always been a Ford guy myself, partial to the 351C like my old Mustnag had once upon a time. It would have to be an "older" one, because I don't think I'm up for integrating computer controls/ignition systems. That's a weak spot for me.

I have a concern that the ignition system may be the culprit in my engine not running well. I think there's room for improvement over the stock one. ......

If you don't have significant experience with keeping old engines running, it's a major mistake to tear into an engine that's not running right and you don't know why and try to fix it with upgrade/downgrades, mods, removals and add-ons.

Why? You stand a high risk of throwing time & money into it and still not have it running decently.

Take one thing at a time with your existing config and get it running decently. And THEN consider what mods you'll want to get into. In other words have a properly running engine as a baseline to work with before moving on.

The ONLY significant emissions thing going on is the AIR system. The one thing you can get away with for now is to remove the air injection stuff. You can also cut the manifold tubes a couple inches from the manifold and bend 'em over tightly with vice grips for an exhaust seal. Then you can remove the air pump, and block off the vacuum hoses going to the diverter valves. This is the only thing I would do for now. After that work on the gas/carb & ignition parts. Check each vacuum line wherever they plug in, looking for cracks. If necessary, cut a 1/2" inch off and re-plug in.

[Subconscious]

I appreciate the advice - you guys rock.

Older engines are really all I'm familiar with. I cut my teeth on a 73 Mustang, 351C 4V back in the late 80s. I know how to to set points, replace condenser, re-jetted the carb, have swapped engines, replaced & rebuilt heads, intakes, & carbs before. I haven't rebuilt an engine myself, but have replace rod & crank bearings and installed cams. I don't know where all that fits into the "whatcha know, anyway?" category, but that's where I'm at.

It's the emission control stuff that I'm vague on. It seems like a complex system for little (?) effect. With the diverter valve already broken, the AIR system is going to go at some stage. I'm hoping that I can eliminate the air system and upgrade the intake/carb at the same time - but I will heed your advice and get her running right again first.

It sounds like getting the old gas out is priority #1, so I'll get the old gas out this weekend, get some fresh in there, and start chasing vacuum lines and gas lines for decay.

I really want this old Jeep back on the road again.

[Suddendeath]

Honestly, these trucks run pretty well in their stock trim. If it's not running/idling/driving 100% in all stock form, fix that before you start modifying. Like it was said above, it gives you a good base to start from.

Drain the old gas, clean out the tank, I'd spray out the fuel lines with some compressed air too. While the tank is down, I'd put in a new sock on the fuel pickup too. Might as well, since it's a googley moogley to do later.

As far as the AIR system, just unbolt the pump, remove the lines. With lots of PB blaster and some heat, remove the hollow bolts holding the AIR tubes to the manifolds and plug them with appropriately sized bolts. If you don't have to pass emissions, there is no reason to keep it if it's not working.

Then just new vacuum lines, tune up, re-set timing and etc, and you should be good.

Swapping intakes/carbs will not make removing the AIR system any easier,etc. I'd work in stages, so that way you can definitely tell if the last thing you did screwed it up more.