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  #1  
Old 01-23-2011, 08:37 AM
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Chief4585 Chief4585 is offline
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Question TH400 Temp Gauge

is there any other way of putting a temp sensor in my TH400 than drilling a hole in the pan? i've looked around and seen some chatter in other places about a pressure port on the side of the transmission that can be used for this; but cant readily identify any such port on my tranny. Clues or ideas? Thanks everyone.
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  #2  
Old 01-23-2011, 08:53 AM
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The pressure port to the trans cooler?
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  #3  
Old 01-23-2011, 09:02 AM
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blazer3664 blazer3664 is offline
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I used an inline sensor right next to the tranny on my old blazer. Worked fine, and let me know how hot the fluid was going to the cooler. That is going to be the hottest the fluid gets, so you know before its a problem.

Jim
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  #4  
Old 01-23-2011, 09:52 AM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blazer3664
I used an inline sensor right next to the tranny on my old blazer. Worked fine, and let me know how hot the fluid was going to the cooler. That is going to be the hottest the fluid gets, so you know before its a problem.

Jim


correct. putting a sensor in the pan is worthless as far as monitoring temp. the fluid in the pan has gone through the cooler and been dumped into the pool. iut has to be in the output to cooler line.
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  #5  
Old 01-23-2011, 12:37 PM
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68glad 68glad is offline
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I believe your both wrong. The temp sensor should be in the return line (upper) after it goes through the cooler. Cut the hard line and install a "T".
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  #6  
Old 01-23-2011, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68glad
I believe your both wrong. The temp sensor should be in the return line (upper) after it goes through the cooler. Cut the hard line and install a "T".
Why would you want to know the temp of the COOLED Trans Fluid? It would be far to late to find out your trans is overheating by then.
If you think about it, the engine temp sensor is located just behind the T-Stat hottest point the coolant gets, before being cooled down in the radiator.
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Old 01-23-2011, 12:59 PM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 68glad
I believe your both wrong. The temp sensor should be in the return line (upper) after it goes through the cooler. Cut the hard line and install a "T".


is your temp coolant sensor in the bottom of the radiator?
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  #8  
Old 01-23-2011, 01:02 PM
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Crazy_Jeepman Crazy_Jeepman is offline
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Well B&M says different so does a couple other sources
Here is Step #2 from B&M
STEP 2. Locate the oil return line to the transmission. On
Chrysler and most Ford transmissions, this is the line to the
rear of the transmission case. On GM TH-350, TH-400, TH-
700R4, and Powerglide transmissions, this is the upper oil
line to the transmission case. On GM TH-200, TH-200R4,
4L80E and Ford AOD transmissions, this is the lower oil line
to the transmission case. Note: This location is recommended
to monitor the true transmission temperature
going in, as well as checking the oil cooler efficiency.

Who woulda Thunk It!!!
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  #9  
Old 01-23-2011, 01:03 PM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
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wow.....wierd. 68gladnailed it!
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... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.




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I LOVE how Ristow has stolen my comment about him ... "Quoted" it ... and made himself famous for being an ***hole to people. Hahahahahahahahahha!


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  #10  
Old 01-23-2011, 01:06 PM
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sappy76 sappy76 is offline
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Ok, so what temperature do you use to determine there is a problem and for how long? What component are you worrying about overheating? If you feel it's that critical, then you ought to measure the temperature right at that point.

My point here is that the transmission can handle a certain temperature for a finite amount of time. Whether you measure the pre-cooled temperature or after the cooler, there will be a time constant and a delta temperature of the fluid which is different that the part you are trying to protect.

I'm assuming that one can watch the sump temperature and make a determination that it's time to shutdown prior to hurting the transmission. (The sump oil is what is used to cool the clutches during slip. If the sump oil is too hot, it will not adequately cool the clutches which will ultimately fail, but it will take some time.)
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  #11  
Old 01-23-2011, 01:20 PM
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OK I give up...............Stick it in the Gas Tank and be done with it



Here is a quote from the Orange ($8.95) GM manual:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"OIL TEMPERATURE MEASURED AT CONVERTER OUTLET TO COOLER.

300F is the maximum temperature. (Workhorse says 350F). This is the normal place to install a temperature gauge or signal. The temperature in this location will vary significantly with each vehicle start-up or hill. If the temperature reaches 300F (350F), reduce throttle. To lower the transmission temperature with the transmission in NEUTRAL, run the engine at 1,200 RPM for 2-3 minutes to cool the oil. Do not allow the converter outlet temperature to exceed 300F (350F).
Keep a close check to prevent the engine cooling system from overheating.

300F would be typical of rocking the vehicle in mud, snow, or sand, or a transmission in stall (full throttle, no vehicle movement). When the transmission is in stall, the transmission will develop heat at a rate of one degree per second of stall.

OIL TEMPERATURES MEASURED IN THE SUMP

150F -- Minimum operating temperature for continuous operation. It is possible in low ambient temperature to overcool the transmission with oil to air-type coolers; it is hard to overcool if used in conjunction with oil to water coolers installed in most standard automotive [COLOR=#0072bc !important][COLOR=#0072bc !important]radiators[/color][/color].

190F-200F -- Maximum oil level checking temperature. Beyond this, readings are not reliable because of expansion.

285F -- Maximum sump/oil pan temperatures for short duration such as a long hill climb.

300F -- Metal parts inside the transmission begin to warp and distort in varying degrees, seals melt rapidly, and transmission fluid life is extremely short due to oxidation and distress.

AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID OXIDATION Automatic transmission fluid
can provide up to 100,000 miles of service before oxidation occurs under normal operating temperatures of about 170F. Above normal operating temperatures, the oxidation rate doubles (useful life of the fluid is cut in half) with each 20 degree increase in temperature. The approximate life expectancy at various temperatures is a follows:
Degrees F Miles
175 100,000
195 50,000
212 25,000
235 12,000
255 6,000
275 3,000
295 1,500
315 750
335 325
375 80
390 40
415 Less than 30 minutes

After-market temp gauge should be installed in the lower (hot) line entering the lower fitting of the radiator.

After-market external oil to air cooler should be installed in series. The hot oil line should go first through the aftermarket cooler then into the radiator to maintain proper minimum temp of the trans in low ambient temps.”

End of GM copy from orange manual.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: Later (green) manual says run through radiator heat exchanger first. Don't know why they changed.

My take on this: A converter outlet reading should give the first indication of heat increase. It also lets you know if you are near maximum fluid temp of 300 (or 350 in Workhorse manual). Another reason I like converter out temp is it gives you not only info to save your tranny, but it also tells you how much heat your are putting into your radiator, thereby allowing you to perhaps avoid an engine overheat by shutting off dash air or whatever else you do. Having a pan temp reading allows you to be sure you don't exceed max pan temp of 285F for the TH400 and lets you know if your cooler is big enough for the hill you just climbed. Once you have climbed your biggest hill on your hottest day without an overtemp event, you can forget about watching the tranny temp.
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  #12  
Old 01-23-2011, 01:23 PM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
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i think i'd do it like 68glad said after thinking about it. it'll tell you if you're overwhelming the cooler,and cooking the supply temp. i also bypass the rad cooler and run only an aux cooler.
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Ristows right.................again,




Quote:
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... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
I LOVE how Ristow has stolen my comment about him ... "Quoted" it ... and made himself famous for being an ***hole to people. Hahahahahahahahahha!


→ Where the kids hang out...

fsjbuilder.org come for the mindless chat,stay for the hand drawn emoticons.

It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting...and knitting...and knitting...and knitting...
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  #13  
Old 01-23-2011, 01:23 PM
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68glad 68glad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ristow
wow.....wierd. 68gladnailed it!


Wooo Hooo.
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  #14  
Old 01-23-2011, 01:25 PM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
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put it in yer sig.
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Originally Posted by Hankrod
Ristows right.................again,




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
I LOVE how Ristow has stolen my comment about him ... "Quoted" it ... and made himself famous for being an ***hole to people. Hahahahahahahahahha!


→ Where the kids hang out...

fsjbuilder.org come for the mindless chat,stay for the hand drawn emoticons.

It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting...and knitting...and knitting...and knitting...
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  #15  
Old 01-23-2011, 01:25 PM
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Lindel Lindel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Jeepman
Well B&M says different so does a couple other sources
Here is Step #2 from B&M
STEP 2. Locate the oil return line to the transmission. On
Chrysler and most Ford transmissions, this is the line to the
rear of the transmission case. On GM TH-350, TH-400, TH-
700R4, and Powerglide transmissions, this is the upper oil
line to the transmission case. On GM TH-200, TH-200R4,
4L80E and Ford AOD transmissions, this is the lower oil line
to the transmission case. Note: This location is recommended
to monitor the true transmission temperature
going in, as well as checking the oil cooler efficiency.

Who woulda Thunk It!!!


One before, one after. That way, you'll know how hot the fluid HAS been, and how good your cooler works.
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  #16  
Old 01-23-2011, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ristow
i also bypass the rad cooler and run only an aux cooler.

me too.
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  #17  
Old 01-23-2011, 01:29 PM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
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i have little remote spin-on oil filter unit we pulled of our aux. generators on the trucks years ago. i've run them inline on the cooler lines in the past,great trans filters. would be a good place to put the sensor.
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Originally Posted by Hankrod
Ristows right.................again,




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
I LOVE how Ristow has stolen my comment about him ... "Quoted" it ... and made himself famous for being an ***hole to people. Hahahahahahahahahha!


→ Where the kids hang out...

fsjbuilder.org come for the mindless chat,stay for the hand drawn emoticons.

It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting...and knitting...and knitting...and knitting...
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  #18  
Old 01-23-2011, 08:41 PM
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letank letank is offline
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I have been running the aux cooler the wrong way..... trany hot fluid to radiator and then to aux cooler..... for the last hummmmm 250Kmiles..... and it is the original transmission.

Once I overcooled the fluid, a sunny winter day at 8000feet, I did not notice anything but the lack of power and the black cloud.... yes the choke set itself on the 2100, a small screwdriver fixed the problem, when I checked all the fluids... the trany fluid was barely warm, but it could have happened the other way around as the radiator was "cold" too.

Otherwise slipping in the sand you will feel the heat thru the floor warming up your feet really fast.

Lindel got it right... one sensor for the output and one for the input.
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  #19  
Old 01-24-2011, 08:44 PM
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FSJunkie FSJunkie is offline
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The question is: Do you want to save your fluid or your trans? The transmission sucks it's fluid up from the pan so that would be the place to put the sensor to make sure the fluid gong to the parts of the trans that need it is cool. If you want to protect your fluid then put it in the cooler line going away from the trans. That way you will se the max temperature the fluid sees. I allways hook the cooler in backwards, before the radiator so on cold days the fluid will be kept warm. It still works perfectly well to cool the fluid when offroad in the summer.
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