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  #1  
Old 05-10-2020, 01:25 PM
StretchinPA StretchinPA is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Dec 18, 2019
Location: AZ
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Lifter wear. Should I be concerned?

I'm doing a new intake manifold on my 76 Wagoneer and my friend suggested checking the lifters for wear while it's apart. I have two that look like the one on the left and the rest look like the one on the right.

Https://i.imgur.com/M9LGgn7.jpg
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  #2  
Old 05-10-2020, 07:07 PM
wiley-moeracing wiley-moeracing is offline
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I would be looking to do a new cam and lifter set, you are just catching it right before things get worse.
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  #3  
Old 05-11-2020, 08:29 AM
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fulsizjeep fulsizjeep is offline
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Do you know how many miles are on the engine? I would be inclined to replace the timing chain and gear set along with the cam and lifters. If the engine still has aluminum rocker bridges, I would also closely inspect them for wear and warping.
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  #4  
Old 05-11-2020, 12:14 PM
pickledtoast pickledtoast is offline
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Yep, that left one is on it's way out. Time to change the cam and lifters. Relatively cheap fix. Be sure to use oil with zinc in it, or buy a zinc additive.
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  #5  
Old 05-11-2020, 03:45 PM
StretchinPA StretchinPA is offline
230 Tornado
 
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Location: AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fulsizjeep
Do you know how many miles are on the engine? I would be inclined to replace the timing chain and gear set along with the cam and lifters. If the engine still has aluminum rocker bridges, I would also closely inspect them for wear and warping.


Milage is unknown to me but visually the engine looks pretty clean internally.

The timing chain and gears are new. I thought maybe someone put a cam in it and didn't break it in properly.

The bridge actually broke when I was removing the rocker arms to pull those two lifters. The engine was running great before I took the intake off.

I guess I'll do the camshaft.
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  #6  
Old 05-11-2020, 06:25 PM
wiley-moeracing wiley-moeracing is offline
350 Buick
 
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Just do it now instead of messing around and don't cheap out, cam lifters chain and additive.
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  #7  
Old 05-14-2020, 12:32 PM
StretchinPA StretchinPA is offline
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Join Date: Dec 18, 2019
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiley-moeracing
Just do it now instead of messing around and don't cheap out, cam lifters chain and additive.


The cam was the original factory cam so I'll take the performance bump.

Here's what the cam looked like. Thoughts?



https://i.imgur.com/6c8dh4w.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/mrvlLCo.jpg
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  #8  
Old 05-14-2020, 07:07 PM
wiley-moeracing wiley-moeracing is offline
350 Buick
 
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The lobes are toast, whatever cam make sure you use the correct break in lube on it and the lifters and break in additive in the oil and at every oil change from now on.
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  #9  
Old 05-15-2020, 07:58 PM
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bufurd bufurd is offline
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Or run Diesel engine oil, it still has plenty of zinc to protect flat tappet cam and lifters in a gasser.
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  #10  
Old 05-16-2020, 06:15 AM
wiley-moeracing wiley-moeracing is offline
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A lot less than oil additive though.
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  #11  
Old 05-16-2020, 10:56 AM
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Kaiserjeeps Kaiserjeeps is offline
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Some additives don't work as advertised and reduce protection. If you just use high ZDDP oils you will never need additives. After a week of late night reading and learning a bit about this, I will never use additives. I changed the oil in every older engine here. Valvoline VR1 10W30 is the best value with high zinc and phosphorus. There are several oils out there that have the ZDDP needed and vary in price and availability. There is also 6 months of reading about oil that could be done and not even touch the bulk of it.
Every single J truck and Wagoneer on this board and everywhere else in the world should be running high ZDDP oil for the style of cam and lifters we have.
And there is some conversation over at the M715 zone that is regarding Rotella and using it in gas motors. It is a good choice and so is VR1.

ZDDP plates out and coats parts with a glass like coating that provides the protection against wear. This process happens with heat and operation of the engine. It must be maintained with continual use of high zinc oil.
ZDDP was cut way back in the 80's because it killed catalytic converters. Roller camshafts also don't suffer these problems.

The engine builder that did my Buick 350 ( the cam was flatter than a pancake and galled) recently told me that he is seeing modern built engines coming in for rebuilds with excess wear. Especially the wrist pins. He contributes it to low ZDDP. Oil manufacturers claim their current oil formulations are backwards compatible to these earlier high ZDDP oils. They are not. Thousands of motorheads posting wear problems on forums don't lie. The oil of today does not help or sustain these early engines. And according to the engine builder I have great conversations with, it does not help modern engines either.

So yep, new cam and lifters and some high ZDDP oil and everything will be fine. Try to find Johnson lifters. They should be made in USA and not china.
That is coming from the engine builder guy.
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  #12  
Old 05-16-2020, 08:24 PM
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bufurd bufurd is offline
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Yup, Rotella is all I run in all my engines... Lawn mowers on up
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  #13  
Old 05-25-2020, 11:54 AM
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Herk Herk is offline
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Actually ZDDP levels went up in the early 80's in response to GM having problems with cam failures under warranty. Had more to do with going to cheaper material on cam blanks than the oil, but it worked. Unfortunately the aftermarket uses the same cam blanks. In the late 90's the industry moved towards much longer warranty periods (100,000 for emissions equipment is required in US, EU, Japan and most of the developed world). To help the catalysts last longer the industry asked oil manufacturers to lower ZDDP levels. So stay away from the "energy saving" oils, they'll have the lowest levels. Heavy duty or performance oils typically have higher levels. Keep in mind a couple of other things. First Extreme Pressure (EP) lubricants like ZDDP don't come into play unless the oil film itself fails. Also they are consumable, meaning they go away with engine run time. So if the available oil has a lower EP additive package, it will lose effectiveness sooner. Even though the oil may be advertised as "Lasting 10,000 miles" it may not offer scuff protection that long.



Most of the cam and lifter damage I have seen can be traced back to improper break-in. Use plenty of EP lube when installing the cam (most come with a packet of moly grease for that reason).


FWIW my daily driver is a 2005 Rubicon with a 4.0 that just turned 225,000 miles. I run Rotella T6 5w40 and always have. My average oil change interval is probably close to 10,000, but I had a 400 mile commute for several years so I was able to get away with it. Now I change more frequently as the pH drops sooner.
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