International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tire Kickin' > General FSJ Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-14-2015, 03:28 PM
NYCMOS NYCMOS is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Jul 22, 2015
Location: Queens
Posts: 50
Help vacuum hoses

It's 1984 j10 with 258 and weber carb/nutter bypass. Thing previous owner removed most of emissions but left a mess of vacuum hoses. Hoses running into themselves/capped off/not capped off/ etc. what's the minimal hoses I need to run? Distributor and brake booster obviously. Still has canister from emissions and coffe can looking canister with 2 lines that seems to be hooked into random vacuum line. I want to remove all the soienoids mounted to valve cover and firewall. What does the vacuum ball on firewall go to? Any help appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-15-2015, 11:12 AM
evdrummer evdrummer is offline
Noob!
 
Join Date: Aug 16, 2015
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 13
From what I've found, a complete vacuum diagram is hard to come by, but you can search out diagrams for each system individually.

The coffee can canister thing should be your fuel vapor canister and should have a vent line from the gas tank and one to vacuum (possibly others depending on what they were doing in 84). Not sure about all the others, but I know the ball on the firewall is for the transfer case. Do you need to pass emissions where you are?
__________________
1977 Wagoneer. AMC 360 TH400. Quadratrac w/ PT Kit.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-15-2015, 11:17 AM
tgreese's Avatar
tgreese tgreese is offline
 
Join Date: May 29, 2003
Location: Medford MA USA
Posts: 11,278
Two things -

1) Most vacuum diagrams are posted here - http://oljeep.com/gw/vac/GW_vacuum.html

After about 79-80, the plumbing got more complicated and Jeep started including a complete vacuum diagram in the service manual. Prior to that, there was a table of devices used, and each device described its own plumbing.

The vapor canister is a good thing - vents your gas tank and carburetor, has no effect on performance, minimal maintenance. Keep it.

The vacuum ball is a vacuum reservoir for the heater and transfer case controls.

2) I suggest that you buy the proper service manual for your car - http://bjsoffroad-com.3dcartstores.c...al_p_1056.html - BJ's will give you a modest discount as a member of this forum. Don't waste your money on the Haynes or Chilton's manual.

The factory service manual (FSM, TSM) for your year is the best single reference available. It will go into great detail about the vacuum plumbing, the devices it attaches to, and their function.
__________________
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk

Last edited by tgreese : 09-15-2015 at 11:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-15-2015, 11:40 AM
NYCMOS NYCMOS is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Jul 22, 2015
Location: Queens
Posts: 50
Thanks good suggestion. I have the service manual but see gaps in manual.

The factory manual doesn't cover what vacuum and smog are removed and only guessing a little, what I can get away with.

Not seeing the vacuum ball and other tuna can looking resevoir in manual. Do I need both? Wasn't talking about Vapor canister I'll probably keep it.

Last edited by NYCMOS : 09-15-2015 at 12:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-15-2015, 01:23 PM
tgreese's Avatar
tgreese tgreese is offline
 
Join Date: May 29, 2003
Location: Medford MA USA
Posts: 11,278
The manual won't cover removal of the devices because it's illegal under Federal law to remove them. How this is enforced is up to the states. Some states do not inspect after a number of years, while other states (and regions) expect you to maintain the factory devices indefinitely.

I can't tell you what to remove because I'm not familiar with what's present in '84 with a 258, and I don't have the '84 manual. And, it not being my car, I'm not as motivated as you are to study the system functions and figure out what isn't needed now that the Weber is in there.

Vacuum reservoir is there in the manual. Figure 3D-6 in the '82-83 manual.

Tuna can is for cruise control I believe. Described in the "cruise command" section about the servo.

There is a lot in the factory manual.
__________________
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-15-2015, 01:31 PM
NYCMOS NYCMOS is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Jul 22, 2015
Location: Queens
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgreese
The manual won't cover removal of the devices because it's illegal under Federal law to remove them. How this is enforced is up to the states. Some states do not inspect after a number of years, while other states (and regions) expect you to maintain the factory devices indefinitely.

I can't tell you what to remove because I'm not familiar with what's present in '84 with a 258, and I don't have the '84 manual. And, it not being my car, I'm not as motivated as you are to study the system functions and figure out what isn't needed now that the Weber is in there.

Vacuum reservoir is there in the manual. Figure 3D-6 in the '82-83 manual.

Tuna can is for cruise control I believe. Described in the "cruise command" section about the servo.

There is a lot in the factory manual.

You can spare the laws regarding emissions I didn't remove the stuff I'm just cleaning up mess. I think I have a good idea now. Would have helped for someone who has done it before to post as opposed to a random "I can't help but I'm posting anyway". Appreciate the help with vacuum resevoir even though you referenced manual for a model year I don't have hence no manual for that year. Only question I have left since I think helps going to be hit or miss. If the tuna can vacuum resevoir is for cruise control, why do all jeeps have them irregardless of if the vehicle came with cruise control.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-15-2015, 02:00 PM
tgreese's Avatar
tgreese tgreese is offline
 
Join Date: May 29, 2003
Location: Medford MA USA
Posts: 11,278
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCMOS
You can spare the laws regarding emissions I didn't remove the stuff I'm just cleaning up mess. I think I have a good idea now. Would have helped for someone who has done it before to post as opposed to a random "I can't help but I'm posting anyway". Appreciate the help with vacuum resevoir even though you referenced manual for a model year I don't have hence no manual for that year. Only question I have left since I think helps going to be hit or miss. If the tuna can vacuum resevoir is for cruise control, why do all jeeps have them irregardless of if the vehicle came with cruise control.

Not trying to be a smart aleck - instead trying to answer your questions. Maybe somebody else has a better answer. Not making any judgement re removing the devices, but it does seem surprising that you would look for such information in an overt form in the factory manual. My pointing this out was meant to help you understand what sort of information would be there.

The manuals change in detail with the years but an '82 manual includes an '83 supplement, and should be in large part the same as your '84 manual. Section 3D is for the heater, and Jeep likely used the same picture in '84, possibly with the same number. The '82-83 manual is on the Tom Collins site, so you can look at the picture there, if you prefer.

Whether the tuna can is present on all Wagoneers, I don't know. Somehow I believe it is part of the cruise control. If you are certain that your Wagoneer did not come with cruise and it has been removed, then it is a mystery. However, it seems likely that the PO removed the cruise servo when the Weber was installed - again, presuming that the Weber was installed by the PO and not you.

You can imagine the PO ripping out all sorts of complicated looking junk out of frustration. This could include parts of the cruise control.

Emissions removal has been covered a lot in previous posts, but maybe not so much wrt the 258 Wagoneers. Here's one online article that may help - http://www.jedi.com/obiwan/jeep/misc/vacuumhoses.html

The BBD, especially with the "computer" that controls the stepper motor (subject of the Nutter bypass) seems to be pretty univerally hated. If i were cleaning up the leftovers from the stepper, I would start there in the manual and trace the control backwards till I reached the bank of vacuum solenoids. Presumably this would tell me which of these can be removed and which are still doing somthing.

hth!
__________________
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-15-2015, 02:35 PM
tgreese's Avatar
tgreese tgreese is offline
 
Join Date: May 29, 2003
Location: Medford MA USA
Posts: 11,278
Here is a search that may help you -

https://www.google.com/search?q=site... tf-8&oe=utf-8
__________________
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-15-2015, 02:44 PM
NYCMOS NYCMOS is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Jul 22, 2015
Location: Queens
Posts: 50
Not looking for removal advice in manual, trying to determine what is where and controls what to remove with having adverse effects.

I try to stay year specific as I've had some issues with 83' to '84 model changes.

Only mentioned weber because it would effect running lines a bit. Think I got that part under controll.

Every 84 jeep I've had has that canister but only half had cruise control. Pretty sure the j10 didn't have cruise control. Never seen truck with manual transmission and cruise control
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-16-2015, 05:13 AM
Strode's Avatar
Strode Strode is offline
1st Chair, Cowbell
 
Join Date: Nov 08, 2011
Location: Littleton, Co
Posts: 2,291
Here's the best information on the web, (from our own Michael Shimniok), that I have found as far as how the vacuum systems work and how it can be simplified:

http://tc.wagoneer.org/search/label/Emissions
__________________
Brad
(*Allowed to post while failed 'I am not a Bot' test results are under appeal)

My build thread: 1982 Cherokee Laredo

Ristow's Bunker

Member, FSJ Prissy Restoration Association
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-16-2015, 08:06 AM
2ToneBluJ10's Avatar
2ToneBluJ10 2ToneBluJ10 is offline
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Feb 16, 2009
Location: Billtown, PA
Posts: 657
Try this link it has much info pertaining to all the vacuum lines for the 258s in cjs of that era. I has been very helpful to me with my stock truck with the crappy BBD system. It has very good explainations for the emissions and vacuum systems. Hope some of it helps since yours was hacked.

http://home.sprynet.com/~dale02/list.htm
__________________
Dave

The few. The proud. The browless.

Somewhere between prissy and pristene

Last edited by 2ToneBluJ10 : 09-16-2015 at 08:10 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-16-2015, 12:22 PM
NYCMOS NYCMOS is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Jul 22, 2015
Location: Queens
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ToneBluJ10
Try this link it has much info pertaining to all the vacuum lines for the 258s in cjs of that era. I has been very helpful to me with my stock truck with the crappy BBD system. It has very good explainations for the emissions and vacuum systems. Hope some of it helps since yours was hacked.

http://home.sprynet.com/~dale02/list.htm


Great reference think I have all I need now thanks.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Vacuum Line Replacement Hoses cfg7613 General FSJ Tech 5 11-21-2009 06:52 PM
motorcraft distributor tuning. eliminating ping. several pics. Ristow Engine 18 04-02-2008 02:02 PM
Select Trac Vacuum Hoses screamerdog General FSJ Tech 1 04-19-2006 05:00 AM
Another ton of EGR/Vacuum/Timing questions (Long and detailed, but hopefully clear) BigRedChief General FSJ Tech 13 01-13-2006 01:34 AM
Vacuum hoses AusTex 72Wag General FSJ Tech 6 06-27-2002 12:16 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner