International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tire Kickin' > Off-Road FSJ Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-27-2012, 06:16 AM
blake5179's Avatar
blake5179 blake5179 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 07, 2011
Location: utah
Posts: 124
Dana 20 T/C pops out of 4 LOW

So I have had my transfer case pop out of 4 Low a couple times on the trail now. It only seems to happen under a good load going up hill. Which is the worst time for the t/c to pop into neutral. I checked the body mounts like someone suggested, they are all old but don't seem to be to worn out or flexing a ton.
Last year or so I found a deal for a used twin stick shifter so I bought that and put it on and now when it wants to pop out of gear only the rear axle shifter pops out and the front stays in place.
Now that I know what it is, I can listen for it and hold the shifter and it will stay in gear fine. But that isn't a very good or safe solution.

I could really use lower gearing so I have been looking into the tera low kit for the Dana 20. I was hoping that might kill two birds with one stone and fix the popping problem and give me lower gears. Its pretty expensive though and I'm not sure that the part that is worn would be replaced in the tera low kit.
I could buy a used 20 and hope it is in good shape. (still have the same gearing though)
I could buy the tera low kit and hope it replaces the part that is causing the problem. (expensive but might be doable)
I could try the D18/bronco D20 gear swap thing. (only read a little about this so far and don't know all the details yet)
I could buy an Atlas (and my wife would kill me)

Any thoughts?
__________________
1977 Cherokee
360 V8 T18 Manual Dana 20 TC
Lockers front and back
Warn 5721 winch
36" TSL's beadlocks
Holley Fuel Injection
Front manual hubs
SOA and SF
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-27-2012, 08:01 AM
cmelo's Avatar
cmelo cmelo is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Feb 08, 2008
Location: Stoughton,MA
Posts: 472
So you had a single shifter and it popped out of gear before? Usually I only here of it with twin sticks. Worn out gears and improper bearing preload can cause it to pop out. Taking out the interlock pill only makes it worse. Usually the rear rail binds on the pill when it's trying to pop out of gear and prevents it from happening. You can put the pill back in and grind the rails to still have twin stick ability but this requires pulling the whole case apart.

I have D18/bronco gears and it pops out of rear low. Honestly, I plan on making a removable pin to just hold the shifter itself in place.
__________________
79' J10 360/T18/D20- Locked & bobbed on 35s
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-27-2012, 09:37 AM
blake5179's Avatar
blake5179 blake5179 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 07, 2011
Location: utah
Posts: 124
Yes it did it with the original stock single shifter and also did it with the twin sticks.
Tell me more about this pin you plan to make, would it just be something up on the shifter inside the cab to hold the shifter in place?

On one trip I put a bungee on the shifter to hold it and it kind of worked. Maybe a better locking pin of some sort would be a cheap and dependable fix.
__________________
1977 Cherokee
360 V8 T18 Manual Dana 20 TC
Lockers front and back
Warn 5721 winch
36" TSL's beadlocks
Holley Fuel Injection
Front manual hubs
SOA and SF
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-27-2012, 09:56 AM
Blake Blake is offline
Bleedin' Gasoline
 
Join Date: Dec 22, 2005
Location: longmont, colorado
Posts: 2,123
well I like the idea of the Atlas and have 'em in both my 'wheeling FSJ's.

If you go that route I definitely recommend the 4spd (like I have in the Honcho). They are only a few hundred more and give you that extra set of gears to play with. Plus the forward hi/low shifter assembly is super, super easy to shift and very handy. If you go with a 2spd (like I did on the waggy) you will still need to get new driveshafts and won't have all the toys. You will end up wishing you had the 4spd.
__________________
Please come on over to http://fsjnetwork.com/forum and have a look.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-27-2012, 10:40 AM
cmelo's Avatar
cmelo cmelo is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Feb 08, 2008
Location: Stoughton,MA
Posts: 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by blake5179
Yes it did it with the original stock single shifter and also did it with the twin sticks.
Tell me more about this pin you plan to make, would it just be something up on the shifter inside the cab to hold the shifter in place?

On one trip I put a bungee on the shifter to hold it and it kind of worked. Maybe a better locking pin of some sort would be a cheap and dependable fix.

There's not really anything to tell. It's exactly how you described it. Just something simple, quick, and easy to remove. I'll probably add a tab to the bottom of my shifter, and a tab on the floor that lines up when it's in low and have some sort of quick remove pin, or even a bolt. I never really need to shift out of rear low on the fly so having have to take an extra second to shift it doesn't bother me.

Down the road I may put the pills back in and grind the rails.
http://offcamber4wd.org/forum/index.php?topic=743.0
__________________
79' J10 360/T18/D20- Locked & bobbed on 35s
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-27-2012, 01:10 PM
joe joe is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 28, 2000
Location: PNWet, USA
Posts: 22,375
Check the condition of the trans/tcase mounts. If they're shot, under load the cases will twist and pop out of gear. Check the condition of your motor mounts too.
__________________
joe
"Don't mind me. I'm just here for the alibi"
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-27-2012, 07:10 PM
68glad's Avatar
68glad 68glad is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Jun 01, 2006
Location: stayton,oregon
Posts: 1,041
Mine used to pop out of 4low also w/ twin sticks. After tearing it down the intermediate gear thrust washers were toast & in turn wrecked the case.
__________________
68 gladiator- 455/400/20 r.i.p.
78 wagoneer- 401, drw60, drw70, 203/205, 38's, oba, obw, hydroboost, dual p/s pump, bla bla bla

"If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything."
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-29-2012, 11:16 AM
Stuka's Avatar
Stuka Stuka is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 21, 2001
Location: Twain Harte, California
Posts: 13,743
D20's popping out of low is a very common sign of a worn intermediate shaft or bad thrust washers (As 68Glad mentioned).

The case needs to be rebuilt.
__________________
Full Size Jeep Network

1981 J10 AMC 258 with TFI and Weber 32/36 DGEV Carb with a BJ's Aluminum Radiator, T176, NP208, D44/M23 with 4.56 gears and Detroit Locker, 6" lift, 33x12.50 TSL's, BJ's Offroad Rear Bumper.

1975 Cherokee *Sold*
1989 XJ Limited *Sold*
2005 KJ Limited 3.7, 42RLE, NP242
2008 JK 3.8, 6sp, NP241, 2.5", 33's, 4.56's
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-29-2012, 10:36 PM
blake5179's Avatar
blake5179 blake5179 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 07, 2011
Location: utah
Posts: 124
Thanks for the input guys.

Looks like there is a master overhaul kit for $130ish.
And the Tera Low kit for $900ish.
Sure would be cool if the tera low kit came with the small rebuild parts too for that price.
__________________
1977 Cherokee
360 V8 T18 Manual Dana 20 TC
Lockers front and back
Warn 5721 winch
36" TSL's beadlocks
Holley Fuel Injection
Front manual hubs
SOA and SF
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-30-2012, 03:41 PM
cmelo's Avatar
cmelo cmelo is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Feb 08, 2008
Location: Stoughton,MA
Posts: 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by blake5179
Thanks for the input guys.

Looks like there is a master overhaul kit for $130ish.
And the Tera Low kit for $900ish.
Sure would be cool if the tera low kit came with the small rebuild parts too for that price.

For $1000 I think I'd save a little longer and get an atlas. Figure with those gears maybe there's a chance for the front output to go. That's, what, maybe $500 more. I believe an atlas starts at $2000 and you can certainly find one used. Putting in new gears and a rebuild also doesn't guarantee it won't pop out gear. A lot of D300s still pop out of low under load after tera low gears. Not sure about D20s.

With that said is it really that bad having it pop out? My intermediate shaft and thrust washers are fine and it still pops out. Same thing happen to a buddy with a rebuilt dana 20. To me, either the grinding the rails and reinstalling the pills, or a "stick lock" would be all I'd want to do. If I wanted the super low gearing I'd save my pennies for an atlas.
__________________
79' J10 360/T18/D20- Locked & bobbed on 35s
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-30-2012, 05:47 PM
KJ Ryu's Avatar
KJ Ryu KJ Ryu is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Sep 06, 2008
Location: Casper, WY
Posts: 771
I had problems with mine popping out. Discovered bad motor and trans mounts. Got those replaced but, used to just have a buddy with, to hold the shifter with his foot.
__________________
Ron

2005 KJ, Hit-n-Run, 2am 6-17-2012, Totaled.
1977 J10, 2v304, T18, D20, 37x14s, SOA & SF on tons, still ugly Occasional driving!
1978 SJ Wagoneer, 360, QT, 33x12.5s, lift by Sawzall NOT Running
1977 J10 4v401, TH400, BW1339, mostly stock DD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars
One man's trans leak is another's penetrating oil
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 10-02-2012, 04:30 AM
blake5179's Avatar
blake5179 blake5179 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 07, 2011
Location: utah
Posts: 124
haha, yes that has been my Dad or brother or buddies job riding in the passenger seat, I always tell them to put their foot on the shifter. But when they get out to take a picture I have to drive and reach over and hold it.
As cheap as the replacement mounts are, I need to get some of those and give them a try first. Can't hurt.
thanks everyone for the input.
__________________
1977 Cherokee
360 V8 T18 Manual Dana 20 TC
Lockers front and back
Warn 5721 winch
36" TSL's beadlocks
Holley Fuel Injection
Front manual hubs
SOA and SF
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 10-02-2012, 08:18 PM
KJ Ryu's Avatar
KJ Ryu KJ Ryu is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Sep 06, 2008
Location: Casper, WY
Posts: 771
Absolutely! Do the cheap stuff first. The mounts are cheap but make sure you have plenty of ratchet straps handy to pull everything into place when you change them. I've swapped them all, 4 times now, on 2 different FSJs, so I kinda figured out a thing or two. Cherry picker, trans jack or something to support the trans (I use an ATV jack!), appropriate wrenches, and 3 ratchet straps... I can swap all four mounts in less than 2 hours if I have all those things, now. First time took about 6 hours.
__________________
Ron

2005 KJ, Hit-n-Run, 2am 6-17-2012, Totaled.
1977 J10, 2v304, T18, D20, 37x14s, SOA & SF on tons, still ugly Occasional driving!
1978 SJ Wagoneer, 360, QT, 33x12.5s, lift by Sawzall NOT Running
1977 J10 4v401, TH400, BW1339, mostly stock DD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mars
One man's trans leak is another's penetrating oil
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-07-2012, 05:04 AM
Red20's Avatar
Red20 Red20 is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Jun 19, 2010
Location: Oahu, HI
Posts: 330
I guess I cheated when I replaced my mounts. I had a lift and a tranny jack. Did tranny mount first, then kept the bolts loose and did the two motor mounts. Then just lined up and tightened it all down. Only took an hour.

One thing about motor mounts is that you can't always tell that they're bad by just looking at them. Mine looked fine until we jacked up the motor and it just came right up and the mounts were in two neatly split pieces, one on the motor and one on the frame. I had some interesting transmission issues until I replaced them.

Good luck. I have the same problem with the twin stick Dana 300 in my Scrambler.
__________________
-JoshUSMC

"Good engineering is simply finding the right wrench to pound in the correct screw." -Adam Welchel

1985 J20 "BigRed" 360/727/208/44/60 Edelbrock Performer Intake, Carb, Cam, MSD 6
1974 J10 "Ugly Monster" VERY SADLY SOLD!
1969 Javelin SST "Yet Unnamed" 290/BW M40 (360 build in the works with a built TH350)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-07-2012, 04:54 PM
Phillips889's Avatar
Phillips889 Phillips889 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 27, 2010
Location: Manchester Connecticut
Posts: 134
I use the old bungee trick on my wheeler with the twin stick never let me down haha.
__________________
1981 j10 cummins diesel Daily driver UP AND RUNNING!
1979 J20 PARTING OUT SEE PARTS FORUM
1979 Cherokee widetrack up on blocks.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-08-2012, 07:05 AM
Elliott's Avatar
Elliott Elliott is offline
Cowboy Up
 
Join Date: Jun 22, 2002
Location: Pilot Point, TX
Posts: 12,704
Do you have a poppet ball, spring located on the outboard shift rail? When the springs weaken the shifter pops out.
__________________
*** I am collecting pics and info on any factory Jeep Dually trucks from the J-Series at the new Jeep Dually Registry.
***I can set you up with hydroboost for your brakes: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=106056
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-08-2012, 09:28 AM
Randyzzz's Avatar
Randyzzz Randyzzz is offline
258 I6
 
Join Date: Mar 03, 2008
Location: Redmond, OR
Posts: 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elliott
Do you have a poppet ball, spring located on the outboard shift rail? When the springs weaken the shifter pops out.

Bingo! You can pull the shift rails and add a couple of tiny washers under the springs- gives the poppet balls more tension and keeps it in gear (unless it's got worn gear problems).
__________________
Randy S.
It's not what you Buy, it's what you Build.
1987 J20 SOLD
1966 Waggy SOLD
1970 Waggy FOR SALE

1982 Scrambler FOR SALE
1981 Scrambler
Current Project
www.oldsoulsretros.com
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dana 60 full-floating/Dana 60 semi-floating cherokee83 General FSJ Discussion 33 09-12-2009 12:11 PM
Fullsize Dana 44 question...Outers woodyranger Off-Road FSJ Tech 13 04-10-2009 02:30 PM
Axle Rankings Slick Willie General FSJ Tech 63 12-16-2007 08:18 PM
Changing a Dana 44 bolt pattern Fox Off-Road FSJ Tech 18 09-27-2006 05:54 AM
What axle came in a early 80s ford f-250? Knucklehead Off-Road FSJ Tech 29 02-20-2005 12:27 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner