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  #21  
Old 02-03-2015, 01:26 PM
twmattox twmattox is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Feb 24, 2003
Location: Indiana
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Given that you have been working on an '85 and I have been working on an '88. As posted above, they are different part numbers for the canister. So, I did some more digging:

'82 FSM

Page 1J-6:
Vapor Canister
This component is used on all vehicles. The canister is filled wit granules of activated charcoal. Vapor entering the canister is absorbed by the granules.

The cansiter has a staged dual purge feature (fig 1J-8). Two inlets are provided, one for fuel tank vapor and one for carburetor bowl vapor The outlet is connected to an intake manifold vacuum source. The fourth nipple is connected to the carburetor spark port (ported vacuum).

When the engine is operating, fresh air enters through the inlet filter in the bottom of the canister and purges the stored vapor. When the ported vacuum reaches 12 in. Hg, the secondary purge circuit is opened and the canister is purged at a much higher rate.




This supports your diagnosis of two different purge levels in the canister. When looking at the vacuum diagram for this set-up (1982), there is not a vapor separator listed. What I find really interesting is that your '85 does have the vapor separator.

I seem to recall reading (I can't find the source right now) that the air bleed that allowed for low rate purge was moved from the canister to the vapor separator. Which would make sense for the '82 vs '88. Dual purge rate canister without vapor separator vs single purge rate canister with vapor separator.

But, the '85 uses the same canister part number (which presumabely would be dual purge rate) AND a vapor canister that has the same part number as the '88 (3300 1586).
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  #22  
Old 02-03-2015, 03:07 PM
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nograin nograin is offline
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Join Date: Dec 19, 2000
Location: Philadelphia, Pa., USA
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TWMattox - that's awsome! Thanks for looking that all that up and typing it in. I've been through my MR 253 a few times and just can't find a darn thing on the any part of the vapor recovery system. Nor anything in the supplementals, which includes 1986 - which according to our part books definately changed canisters. That said, the MR 253 can be kind of jumbled compared to the earlier FSMs I've seen. Sometimes I find things in places I don't expect and other times, just not to be found...

I've made up some diagrams of how the '85 system worked, but from what you've dug up, its probably not the most common system. Similar, but not the same.

I came up with the same p/n as you for the vapor separator from Figure 25-2800 in the parts book, 3300 1586 Liquid Trap. I need to see if I saved the original one that came on my wag and examine it. The blue one I measured is a new old stock replacement.

I bought the replacement from Kennedy American when I first got the Jeep in 2000. I can't recall if I gave Jeff Kennedy a part number or an application. The part I received had an AMC logo on it and the number EF-8933002029 which I wrote down. It looked just like these on ebay.
All that is long winded way of saying I'm not 100% sure on whether the vapor seperator I have is an exact replacement. Everything else I'm sure is factory stock.

EDIT: ADDITION BELOW

I can't fully explain why the '85 has dual purge canister with a vapor separator. However, I have noticed that vacuum routing was a moving target from '84 through '86. Not only did '85 get a change in EGR control connections from '84, but according to the supps, '86 had an in service fix recommended. So that's 4 changes in 3 years. Looks like a work in progress as they tried to stay ahead of emmissions and maybe also simplify and standardize?
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Last edited by nograin : 02-03-2015 at 03:15 PM.
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  #23  
Old 02-03-2015, 03:35 PM
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nograin nograin is offline
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Inside the Vapor Separator

In further response to JeepJeepster's question about the inside of the blue can. Here's a sketch of the insides of the vapor separator.
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no "wood" outside
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  #24  
Old 02-03-2015, 03:46 PM
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nograin nograin is offline
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Canister Operation Diagram - 1985

Below are diagrams of how the charcoal canister works. They show the entire recovery system which should make it easier to understand.

More precisely, these diagrams are for a system using the off-white four port canister marked 3232956, and a vapor separator. If for any reason the images no longer appear here, try going directly the page on my website with this link.


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carries wood inside
no "wood" outside
My other car is a fish
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  #25  
Old 02-03-2015, 04:01 PM
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nograin nograin is offline
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Based on what TWMattox has described, in the black four port canisters (J 323 9479) there is no connection from the manifold vacuum in the purge valve to the center chamber. So for those systems, one could alter the above diagrams by deleting the upward pointing orange arrows in the center chamber. Air either moves toward the fuel tank as fuel is consumed or out into the charcoal and then through the purge valve or the vapor separator.
At least that's my understanding.
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carries wood inside
no "wood" outside
My other car is a fish
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  #26  
Old 02-03-2015, 04:41 PM
twmattox twmattox is offline
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I LOVE those diagrams. Makes understanding these things so much easier!!! Thanks!
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'83 Scrambler (CJ-8) / 258 / T-5 / D-300 / DANA 30-AMC20 (3.31)
'88 Grand Wagoneer (SJ) / 360 / TF727 / NP229 / DANA 44 (2.73)
'05 Wrangler Unlimited (LJ) / 4.0L / NSG 370 / NV231 / DANA 30-44 (3.73)
'15 Wrangler Unlimited (JKU) / 3.6L / 42 RLE / NV 241 / DANA 30-44 (3.73)
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  #27  
Old 02-06-2015, 01:46 PM
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nograin nograin is offline
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Diagrams for 86+ v-8s

Ok. Here's the same diagrams now showing operation for the systems that used canister J 323 9479. This is the all black canister like TWMattox cut apart. It also has four ports on the top but internally it has no idle purge passage. Therefore, purge at idle for recovery systems with this can is done entirely through the vapor separator.

It was used on CJs, 1981-1985 6 cylinder SJs, and to the best of our knowledge (so far) on all SJs from 1986 to at least 1989.



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'85 Grand Wagoneer
360 727auto, NP229
body by beer (PO)
carries wood inside
no "wood" outside
My other car is a fish
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  #28  
Old 02-07-2015, 07:02 AM
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Strode Strode is offline
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I moved this to the tech archives. Good stuff here, thanks guys.

I need to experiment with mine. I bought a new one per one of the writeups, and it doesn't function as I thought it would. Finding out they are not all designed to operate the same.
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