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  #1  
Old 03-18-2009, 07:50 PM
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Chief Gunner Chief Gunner is offline
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School me on rear main seal change out

Well,
While looking into repairing my leaking transfer case, I notice quite a bit of oil dripping from between the engine and the transmission. I just put 2 quarts of oil in after about a month from the last oil change. Is that a lot for a rear main seal? How in depth is that type or repair? What is the procedure for that type of repair? Thanks for all the help.
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Old 03-18-2009, 08:23 PM
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Hey, I atually did a little searching for a change(go figure) and I have an idea of how to swap out the rms. It doesn't seem too difficult, but it does seam like a PITA to do. Before I begin to dive into changing that out, I want research a little more. Right now, I am getting some oild drips between the transmission and I believe the flex plate. I am not sure what the flex plate is, but I have what looks like a thin piece of sheet metal between the engine and the transmission. I will try to get some pictures tomorrow. Any insight would be greatly appreceated.
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Old 03-18-2009, 08:41 PM
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Headhoncho Headhoncho is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Gunner
Hey, I atually did a little searching for a change(go figure) and I have an idea of how to swap out the rms. It doesn't seem too difficult, but it does seam like a PITA to do. Before I begin to dive into changing that out, I want research a little more. Right now, I am getting some oild drips between the transmission and I believe the flex plate. I am not sure what the flex plate is, but I have what looks like a thin piece of sheet metal between the engine and the transmission. I will try to get some pictures tomorrow. Any insight would be greatly appreceated.

Do a search for rear main seal and you should find lots of info on it. It's a frequently brought up topic. Oil leaks around the trans/flexplate usually means a rear main seal is in your future. If your trans is an auto, you'll have a flexplate (It's what the torque converter bolts to). A manual trans and you'll have a flywheel (it's what the clutch assembly bolts to). Just make sure the oil isn't coming from the valve covers or intake manifold end seals first before you tear into the rms. A rms job includes dropping the oil pan, breaking loose the main bearing caps about a 1/4 inch to drop the crank for a little clearance, then fishing out the old seal and sliding the new seal in. Most attention needs to be paid to making sure the new seal is installed properly and the oil pan/ pan gasket is installed properly to avoid leaks. Don't forget to re-torque the bearing caps to specs.


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Old 03-18-2009, 09:11 PM
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Chief Gunner Chief Gunner is offline
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Thanks HeadHancho, I am searching quite a bit now. There is a good write up with some good pictures. I am for sure going to be looking for other sources for the leaks. The main problem I have right now, is that I don't have a garage to work in so I have to go to the Naval Air station in Corpus christi and use the auto hobby shop there. the good thing, they have lifts and just about all the tools I could need. the down side is the fact that any work I do has to be limited to a days worth of work, so I have to be sure of what I am doing. Man, I can't wait to get a garage.
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Old 03-19-2009, 06:15 AM
yankeedog yankeedog is offline
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you will need to drop the starter. you will need to unbolt the exhaust from the manifolds,then jack the beast up by the frame and let the front axle and the exhaust droop.this will give you enough clearance to get the oil pan out.you will want to get one of those swively universal thingies that fits between your ratchet extension and your socket (7/16) as there is a bolt on the drivers side of the oil pan that is just a pure beach to get to without one.wiggle the oil pan loose and then wiggle it off,it will just make it.you .then need to take off the rear main bearing cap to replace the seal the bottom is easy the top may take some finnesse.you might need to loosen all the main bearings to do it.you can take a pin punch and push on one side of it and grab the the side with a needle nose pliers.TAKE EXTREME CARE TO NOT SCRATCH THE CRANKSHAFT!!!!!!!!!!put the new seals in ,re torque the caps install new pan gaskets. curse and swear alot and dont be surprised if it still leaks when you are done.
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Old 03-19-2009, 06:18 AM
yankeedog yankeedog is offline
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Oh,by the way Chief (thank you for your service).when you get that garage..... you will find it is just a place to accumulate crap.
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Old 03-19-2009, 07:01 AM
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I have yet to see an AMC with a leaky rear main (not saying they're not out there). Pull the inspection cover and see if the flexplate is covered in oil. If the rear main is leaking, you'll have oil streaks working their way out from the center. If the rear is not leaking, the flexplate will be dry.

If you do change it out, clean all the mating surfaces with brake cleaner. This is also a good time to make sure the oil pan flange is straight. Use a a hammer and block o wood to straighten the flange out and bolt holes if overtightened and distorted.

For sealing it up, use black rtv on the bearing cap ends (as directed in the seal instructions) and where the cork gasket meets the rubber pan gaskets. Use spray copper to stick the gasket to the pan and more spray copper on the block. I hate RTV for pan gaskets as everythign slides all over. Never had any leaks with the above method.

Don't foget the brass drift, it'll take a good whack to get it moving the first little bit.
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  #8  
Old 03-19-2009, 08:38 AM
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HARDCORE pacer HARDCORE pacer is offline
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DO NOT undo the main caps except the one you need to remove to r&r the rms. It can still be done easily. Blinkinlights has a good write up with pics just do some searching.
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Old 03-19-2009, 03:50 PM
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Saltyfeather Saltyfeather is offline
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http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=90708
Try that.
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  #10  
Old 03-19-2009, 04:05 PM
yankeedog yankeedog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HARDCORE pacer
DO NOT undo the main caps except the one you need to remove to r&r the rms. It can still be done easily. Blinkinlights has a good write up with pics just do some searching.

Please educate me as to why you cannot loosen the main caps.
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Old 03-19-2009, 04:35 PM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeedog
Please educate me as to why you cannot loosen the main caps.

Indeed. The FSM says to loosen the caps. Why wouldn't you?

Of course, you only remove the rear cap.
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  #12  
Old 03-19-2009, 04:39 PM
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navyordnance navyordnance is offline
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I too thought I had a rear main seal leak but upon close inspection I found out that my oil pan bolts where way loose (especially in the rear, **** PO). I now have a drip free garage and driveway.
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  #13  
Old 03-19-2009, 10:04 PM
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caionneach caionneach is offline
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The problem with the Jeep RMS is it is a 2 piece unit.

I wish there were a way to reengineer the engine blocks to be able to use a one piece RMS, but that probably cannot be done.

As a two piece unit, proper installation with fastidious attention to detail is absolute. The top and bottom of the seal must be installed oriented properly with the lip of the seal facing the front of the engine, the seals must be lubricated with oil to be inserted into the engine block and the rear cap, and then the ends of the seals must be "molded" together with RTV by coating the top and bottom of the ends of the bottom seal.

And remember, you've just used oil to lubricate the seals in order to insert them, so oil once your friend is now your enemy once the seals are in place. Use brake cleaner to make sure no oil interferes with RTV.
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Old 03-20-2009, 12:00 AM
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I'll second the don't loosen all the main bearing caps. Just do the rear one. The manual does say loosen them all, but I and others have done it without. No problem. And I did it twice...
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Old 03-20-2009, 07:47 AM
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Oh yeah, make sure you are careful fishing the new upper seal into the block, it's easy to carve off a little of the seal as you slide it in.
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  #16  
Old 03-20-2009, 08:04 AM
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Billygoat Billygoat is offline
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I put 4 rms in my 360 1 winter (fianlly figures out the breather was plugged and presurizing the crank and blowing out the seal)
Anyway, only need to remove the rear cap, and long skinny punch is you best friend for starting to roll the top sea out - but only to start it, then grab with vice grips and pull around.
1 day is plenty of time, I got it down to an hour+, but did not have to deal with exhaust (custom duel).
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Old 03-20-2009, 08:24 AM
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Heads up-

Watch out for those exhaust manifold flange bolts. LOTS of PB'Laster, They snap off pretty **** easy. You can pull the head pipes outboard with some cargo straps to the frame to give you a little wiggle room. You may not have to drop the starter either, (I didn't). I did this with a floor-jack in my driveway. Major PITA but it can be done. took only a couple hours and lots of strong language. Get a big soft rubber hammer for the pan, it's gonna take some coercing. The copper spray is a great trick for sticking the pan gaskets on re-install.
Nothing to it.

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  #18  
Old 03-20-2009, 08:58 PM
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Chief Gunner Chief Gunner is offline
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Okay, there seems to be a differing of oppinions regarding the loosening of the remainder of the bearing caps. It seems like loosening all the caps would give you extra clearance to fit the top seal in place. So what are the disadvantages to doing this? What are advantages of leaving the main caps alone and just removing the rear main seal?
On another note, what type of seal material is best when you don't have days to let the seal material cure. Sounds like I need to put some type RTV sealant between the cork gasket. I am just wondering what type would work best when time is a bit of the essense.
I love this discussion as I am learning quite a bit from it. I would like to learn why everyone has the oppinion that they have. This is a learning thread so the more you share, the more new guys like me can learn. I bought my jeep to be a project and I want to do as much of the work on it myself as I can. Thanks again for all the help.
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  #19  
Old 03-20-2009, 09:09 PM
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BarryL BarryL is offline
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Loosening and retorqueing while laying on your back is a pain in the a*s. Second, why mess with the main bearing caps if it's not needed? Always a chance something will go wrong.

I use Permatex aviation gasket sealer. Comes in a tin with a brush. Paint it on to the block surface and stick the cork gaskets on, making sure to line up the holes. Install the front and rear rubber pieces and use the RTV sealant per the instructions. Paint the pan with the Permatex. Wrestle with the pan. Bolt it up.
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  #20  
Old 03-21-2009, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Gunner
What are advantages of leaving the main caps alone and just removing the rear main seal?

On the ones I've done... there was no way I was going to get the upper half out of there without dropping the main caps to let the crank drop down. Even then I had to use a punch to get the seal starting to move.
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