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  #41  
Old 04-25-2020, 07:17 PM
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bigwalton bigwalton is offline
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Join Date: May 25, 2006
Location: MI
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77 Cherokee S

Very excited! Awesome to check out this rig in person and talk Jeep (and get a 401 )
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  #42  
Old 04-25-2020, 07:57 PM
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cu4whln cu4whln is offline
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Join Date: May 16, 2008
Location: Canton, Mi USA !
Posts: 1,192
Removed the stock factory engine mounts... unbolt, then break the weld on top of the frame loose. 5 lb sledge did its job!
Note - there are now 6 bolts.. the dirty ones with nuts are the original bolts holding the stock engine mount on.

Now, The Novak bolt on LS mounts use these existing holes, as well as 3 others.. the added holes are already there.. and it all lined up well.
Will have to grind/dress the frame a bit, but that should be easy.
I am just test fitting here . . .

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]


And now: The "Rest of The Story" . . .

Remember I am installing a Gen 5 "LT" engine? Well, the engine mount location is off from the LS series engines.. moved rearward and up it appears.
So why am I playing around with the bolt on LS mounts instead of the "universal" set from Novak specifically for the Gen 5 engine?[ Which I also have ]
Well, Brad had mentioned there are adaptor plates available to compensate for this.. so...

After some research, I found ICT Billet makes adaptor mount plates to locate a Gen 5 LT engine in the same center of crank/back of block that an LS would have had. Seems folks are updating LS vehicles with the Gen 5 LT engines. So, I'll bite.. and ordered a set. in theory, this should let me have a bolt in Gen 5 LT engine using the LS set up from Novak. Time will tell, I need the parts to arrive.
AND - I have a LOT of clean up to do before that trial begins.

Why am I in there ? The wife caught me tinkering and snapped this pic. Well, it appears the lower column bearing fell out and seems to have failed? I looked in the factory service manual, it looks like there is a retainer to hold the bearing in place? It seems this has failed? Anybody know about this ?

[IMG][/IMG]
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It's not yours 'til ya bleed on it . . .

1977 "401" 'Da Chief
1979 Chero: "Madness" [Sold]
1985 CJ : Renegade -locked and loaded
2001 XJ : Driver 2016 JK 2 door

'Da Chief here: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...ighlight=chief

Round 2- LT Swap: 'Da Chief:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=188457

"Madness" build here:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=89280

Last edited by cu4whln : 04-25-2020 at 08:16 PM.
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  #43  
Old 04-26-2020, 07:28 PM
cu4whln's Avatar
cu4whln cu4whln is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Location: Canton, Mi USA !
Posts: 1,192
T-case woes..

Well, it's been a frustrating day. The Novak "Bolt On" Dana 300 kit to put it behind a 6L80 did NOT work well for me. The first go around, I couldn't get it to seat.. and then called Novak. They said, oh yes, you need to cut the output shaft to 3 1/8 " sticking out. It clearly states on the website that if you have a 4x4 trans [which I do], this kit bolts on.

There were no directions included in the kit. I couldn't find any on line either. This seems very uncharacteristic for Novak?
Seems like if a modification and the related measurement are required, why no instructions? IDK.

Anyway, I measured carefully how much I thought needed to be cut off... There was not even 3" of shaft sticking out..
Looked to be a 1" gap. That was the gap to seat the t-case. I made it 1 1/8" to ensure some extra clearance. Added some tape and got out the cut off wheel. NOT FUN. Working your way through a case hardened steel output shaft was tough.

[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

OK - after some time ... I let it cool between cuts so the seal wouldn't be damaged.. I got through the shaft. this was a good 1 1/2 hours btw. I then did the best I could to add a small chamfer to the lead in edge. That's the cut off pc for reference.

[IMG][/IMG]

OK ! Good ! .. I put the adaptor back on the trans.. and loaded to Dana 300... Hmm, it STILL won't seat? What ?? I must have miscalculated the required amount to remove?
Still not sure how that happened?
I ADDED an extra 1/8" ? It was virtually on, but it still had a very small gap.
DANG IT. Need to cut another 1/16th[ish] off to seat the T-case on the adaptor.
It was difficult to cut such a thin amount.. about the width of the cut off wheel. UGH. Again, not a lot of fun. Steady hand required !

[IMG][/IMG]
Add the chamfer again . . . Getting concerned now.. the output shaft is getting very short ?
[IMG][/IMG]

OK -time to try it again.. reinstall the adaptor, which fit perfectly btw..

[IMG][/IMG]

The moment of truth .. and it now fits. Wonder what I did wrong? Or maybe I got the wrong adaptor or something? IDK. It is a pretty short t-case compared to the Q-Trac. I need a drink now.

[IMG][/IMG]
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It's not yours 'til ya bleed on it . . .

1977 "401" 'Da Chief
1979 Chero: "Madness" [Sold]
1985 CJ : Renegade -locked and loaded
2001 XJ : Driver 2016 JK 2 door

'Da Chief here: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...ighlight=chief

Round 2- LT Swap: 'Da Chief:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=188457

"Madness" build here:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=89280

Last edited by cu4whln : 06-14-2020 at 09:26 AM.
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  #44  
Old 04-28-2020, 05:37 PM
cu4whln's Avatar
cu4whln cu4whln is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Location: Canton, Mi USA !
Posts: 1,192
In Todays News ....

Edit - Post was cut off.. dang it. Trying to fix it now. lost half hour...

Played around some more with the mounts. The LS to LT adaptor plates arrived. These plates are for people replacing their Gen IV / Gen 4 LS engines with the updated Gen V LT engines. The "claim" is this locates the back of block and crank centerline the same as an original LS installation. We will see.

Note, the LT mount moved rearward roughly 1" and up about 3/4" [best guess]. I don't have the actual data .. I am making the "assumption" the center of each hole pattern locates the engine mount. Look at the rough hand drawn lines to locate the middle of each.

[IMG][/IMG]

Next laid out both sets of mounts... The bolt on LS set has a flat plate, the LT has some form. I don't know why.... Note, the actual rubber mounts are the same on either version.

[IMG][/IMG]

I then bolted the adaptor plates into the stock Gen 5 block mount holes. Note, the open holes are for the LS mount

[IMG][/IMG]

The LS mount was then bolted up to adaptor plate. Note, there are 3 holes to choose from. I chose the ones to push the engine as far forward as possible to help with exhaust clearance. I am hoping to use the original crossmember location as well.

[IMG][/IMG]
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It's not yours 'til ya bleed on it . . .

1977 "401" 'Da Chief
1979 Chero: "Madness" [Sold]
1985 CJ : Renegade -locked and loaded
2001 XJ : Driver 2016 JK 2 door

'Da Chief here: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...ighlight=chief

Round 2- LT Swap: 'Da Chief:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=188457

"Madness" build here:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=89280

Last edited by cu4whln : 04-28-2020 at 05:47 PM.
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  #45  
Old 04-29-2020, 05:51 AM
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Simo Simo is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Dec 21, 2017
Location: North East, PA
Posts: 66
I like the dedicated dana 300 marriage and feel ya on the 'measure twice cut once' challenge - second guessing modifying such an important/expensive shaft with no advertised indication from the manufacturer for the application while fearing approach of too little spline engagement left for safely transmitting the torque. Ideally the remaining spline engagement would probably be at least 1.5-2x of the diameter. At least out of any imperfect scenario, by going a conservative hair too long at first you could still just grind a little more off.

Last edited by Simo : 04-29-2020 at 06:10 AM.
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  #46  
Old 04-29-2020, 07:15 AM
GWNashville's Avatar
GWNashville GWNashville is offline
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Join Date: Dec 28, 2016
Location: Nashville
Posts: 143
Da Chief

Jim I am impressed with your build. Thanks so much for the pics and the info, both mechanical and financial. Love the patience on the T-case, everything takes three to five times longer than you have planned in your head.
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Email:alexhanmusic@comcast.net
1989 Grand Wagoneer 360 c.i.
727 Transmission
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  #47  
Old 04-29-2020, 08:49 PM
cu4whln's Avatar
cu4whln cu4whln is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Location: Canton, Mi USA !
Posts: 1,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by GWNashville
Jim I am impressed with your build. Thanks so much for the pics and the info, both mechanical and financial. Love the patience on the T-case, everything takes three to five times longer than you have planned in your head.

Thanks GWNashville.. Nice to know somebody is reading this!

I like documenting the projects. I have learned so much from other peoples threads. I figure maybe someone may see an interesting tidbit or 2 in mine.
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It's not yours 'til ya bleed on it . . .

1977 "401" 'Da Chief
1979 Chero: "Madness" [Sold]
1985 CJ : Renegade -locked and loaded
2001 XJ : Driver 2016 JK 2 door

'Da Chief here: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...ighlight=chief

Round 2- LT Swap: 'Da Chief:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=188457

"Madness" build here:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=89280
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  #48  
Old 04-29-2020, 09:01 PM
cu4whln's Avatar
cu4whln cu4whln is offline
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Join Date: May 16, 2008
Location: Canton, Mi USA !
Posts: 1,192
In Today's News . . .

Slow progress while working from home.
Good news is the fuel tank place called, and my tank is cleaned and coated. Hope to pick it up Friday. They make custom fuel lines as well, so may have them make one for me with quick connects at the fuel filter for easy service.

As there is some peeling paint on my firewall, needed to remove the fan/heater core box. I was planning on this anyway as I think it's a good idea to get the heater core flushed, cleaned, and pressure checked before the engine goes in.

The usual debris accumulation... Of course, you have to remove the AC system to get at the nuts to remove these..

[IMG][/IMG]

40 years of use.. not too bad actually... The heater core looks to be in great shape. Really no rust on the metal box. kind of surprised.

[IMG][/IMG]

Note the peeling paint. Is this normal? It's all surface rust.. and the paint is just flacking off. Literally bare metal underneath. The powerwasher will likely take the loose paint off. I plan to clean the firewall and POR the rust spots.

[IMG][/IMG]
__________________
It's not yours 'til ya bleed on it . . .

1977 "401" 'Da Chief
1979 Chero: "Madness" [Sold]
1985 CJ : Renegade -locked and loaded
2001 XJ : Driver 2016 JK 2 door

'Da Chief here: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...ighlight=chief

Round 2- LT Swap: 'Da Chief:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=188457

"Madness" build here:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=89280
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  #49  
Old 04-29-2020, 09:11 PM
cu4whln's Avatar
cu4whln cu4whln is offline
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Join Date: May 16, 2008
Location: Canton, Mi USA !
Posts: 1,192
Took the steering shaft out and pulled the lower column bearing apart. I was able to fix the parts and reinstall it. No more loose lower bearing!

Had to do a little grinding..

There is a small plate that sticks out and slightly interferes with the new mounts. So off it comes. this is on both sides btw.
Also of note is the original weld that was broken to remove the stock engine perch [ Silver line ]

[IMG][/IMG]

Post grinding for new mounts. The original weld is now flat.. and the small curved piece is now removed and flat.

[IMG][/IMG]
__________________
It's not yours 'til ya bleed on it . . .

1977 "401" 'Da Chief
1979 Chero: "Madness" [Sold]
1985 CJ : Renegade -locked and loaded
2001 XJ : Driver 2016 JK 2 door

'Da Chief here: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...ighlight=chief

Round 2- LT Swap: 'Da Chief:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=188457

"Madness" build here:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=89280
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  #50  
Old 04-29-2020, 09:56 PM
78 WIDETRAC's Avatar
78 WIDETRAC 78 WIDETRAC is offline
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Aug 19, 2003
Location: Portland, Or
Posts: 541
I'm super curious about the holley fuel pump you are putting in the stock tank.

I'm doing the sniper, and am thinking about this pump also.



My 81 Cherokee has the plastic tank though might make it easier to modify tank?



Anyway It's a great build already, I'm looking forward to the progress.
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  #51  
Old 04-30-2020, 07:47 AM
GWNashville's Avatar
GWNashville GWNashville is offline
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Join Date: Dec 28, 2016
Location: Nashville
Posts: 143
Holley Universal In-Tank fuel pump

78 widetrack-I just put this in a few days back.



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GWNashville
Email:alexhanmusic@comcast.net
1989 Grand Wagoneer 360 c.i.
727 Transmission
Serehill Rear Glass and Fog Light Harness.
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  #52  
Old 04-30-2020, 04:41 PM
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bkilby bkilby is online now
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Jan 10, 2016
Location: Burbank Ca.
Posts: 913
Lol! I wasn't paying attention to who's posting and see this gas tank mounted in the frame and thinking, when did Jim pull the body off the frame? Now he's in deep! Lol! Nice install GWNashville.
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  #53  
Old 04-30-2020, 07:05 PM
cu4whln's Avatar
cu4whln cu4whln is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Location: Canton, Mi USA !
Posts: 1,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkilby
Lol! I wasn't paying attention to who's posting and see this gas tank mounted in the frame and thinking, when did Jim pull the body off the frame? Now he's in deep! Lol! Nice install GWNashville.


LOL ! Me too! Good job GWNashville… is that a Holly 130 or 131 pump?
i.e. - one has an internal regulator set to 60 psi and has a single output.
The other requires an external regulator with a return line.

Either way - it shows this style pump can go in a plastic or metal tank …. Cool!

Cool is a key word here .. The main reason OEM pumps are in tank is cooling. The fuel helps keep the motor cool as it runs. Heat on an external pump is often the reason they fail/have issues.
Now, that said, they are certainly easier to service! As a side note, I have been running an external Bosch pump on my CJ for 20+ years.. It's not loud, and works great.


Soooo - I picked up my cleaned and coated metal tank today... Note 2 things, it was coated inside and out.. The inside coating is very smooth, while the external coating is thick with an almost rubberized coating for weather/element protection. [I am not going to use the large skid plate.]

Here's the outside.. some assembly required

[IMG][/IMG]

Here you can just see down the pickup hole.. and barely see the fuel slosh baffle. Note, the coating inside is smooth . . .

[IMG][/IMG]

Here are the fuel pump module parts and a new sending unit from BJs. Now, I cannot get the fuel sending unit into the tank? It "almost" goes, but just will not seat. Scratching my head...

And then I grab the old one and measure it - uh oh. It has a smaller total diameter [1/8"] and the sending unit is not centered on the ring like the original? This causes 2 issues, the ring will not install as it hits the locking features on the tank. The other issue is the sending unit being off center, hits the edge before the tab can drop down into the locating slot. A call to BJs is in order... I can grind it down/modify to make it fit, but wondering if I got the correct part here.

[IMG][/IMG]
__________________
It's not yours 'til ya bleed on it . . .

1977 "401" 'Da Chief
1979 Chero: "Madness" [Sold]
1985 CJ : Renegade -locked and loaded
2001 XJ : Driver 2016 JK 2 door

'Da Chief here: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...ighlight=chief

Round 2- LT Swap: 'Da Chief:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=188457

"Madness" build here:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=89280

Last edited by cu4whln : 04-30-2020 at 07:18 PM.
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  #54  
Old 04-30-2020, 07:20 PM
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babywag babywag is offline
out of order
 
Join Date: Jun 08, 2005
Location: Land of froot loops and cukcoo-nuts, CA
Posts: 9,682
I brought up the incorrect "BJs" sender 10 years ago...
Other people verified same problem.
It's not "correct" vs OEM.

Aftermarket crap. I have a video from 10yrs ago on youtube hahaha
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  #55  
Old 04-30-2020, 07:22 PM
cu4whln's Avatar
cu4whln cu4whln is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Location: Canton, Mi USA !
Posts: 1,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
I brought up the incorrect "BJs" sender 10 years ago...
Other people verified same problem.
It's not "correct" vs OEM.

Aftermarket crap. I have a video from 10yrs ago on youtube hahaha

Ahh - not just me then.
Any other option?

How did you correct it? Grind it down to fit? I think I can do that and make it work. The travel and drop angle match the original it appears.
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It's not yours 'til ya bleed on it . . .

1977 "401" 'Da Chief
1979 Chero: "Madness" [Sold]
1985 CJ : Renegade -locked and loaded
2001 XJ : Driver 2016 JK 2 door

'Da Chief here: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...ighlight=chief

Round 2- LT Swap: 'Da Chief:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=188457

"Madness" build here:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=89280
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  #56  
Old 05-01-2020, 11:02 AM
babywag's Avatar
babywag babywag is offline
out of order
 
Join Date: Jun 08, 2005
Location: Land of froot loops and cukcoo-nuts, CA
Posts: 9,682
IIRC I returned it and got an NOS one from zmjeeps??
Pretty sure BJs charged me a restocking fee too...insisting that they had never heard of the issue before.
But more than one member told me they had the exact same problem.

It can be modified to work, but my dad was NOT in favor of that.
He was an aircraft mechanic and he refused to go along with that.
I debated just doing it and telling him I got a replacement.
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  #57  
Old 05-01-2020, 05:41 PM
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GWNashville GWNashville is offline
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Join Date: Dec 28, 2016
Location: Nashville
Posts: 143
Da Chief

Sorry getting back so slow. It's a Holley 255 LPH, Part number 12-158.
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Email:alexhanmusic@comcast.net
1989 Grand Wagoneer 360 c.i.
727 Transmission
Serehill Rear Glass and Fog Light Harness.
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  #58  
Old 05-01-2020, 07:37 PM
cu4whln's Avatar
cu4whln cu4whln is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: May 16, 2008
Location: Canton, Mi USA !
Posts: 1,192
Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
It can be modified to work, but my dad was NOT in favor of that.
He was an aircraft mechanic and he refused to go along with that.
I debated just doing it and telling him I got a replacement.

So - Sending unit.. I decided to just modify it. BJs is closed on Fridays, so no info as yet. I did send an email.

BUT - I decided, after some inspection, to remove about 1/16" all the way around with some tin snips... That fixes the overall fit past the locking ring issue. You can see the edges are not perfectly round, but no matter. The throws on the new unit matched the original one perfectly.

[IMG][/IMG]

But wait, there's more! The locking ring does not fit either.. The area between the lock areas are not wide enough too... Using the original locking ring as a guide, I opened up the 3 areas so it would drop down into the locking ring feature. I marked it with a felt pen, tin snips again.

[IMG][/IMG]

THEN.. Yes, there's more... Note, the new units sender feed is offset slightly, not in the middle like the original. It would not drop in and seat??

[IMG][/IMG]

Turns out this different offset makes this edge, where I am pointing, interfere with the edge of the hole... and it wouldn't drop in. So.. out come the snips again.. and trim ever so slightly the top of this edge.. and then it will finally drop into the correct spot. only have to do the very top as the rest of that edge drops below the rim when installed.

[IMG][/IMG]

FINALLY, it's in ! I used the smaller of the provided O-rings btw. Second pic is through the pickup hole.. and you can see the new float is sitting on the bottom of the tank. That's the original fuel slosh baffle in front of that.

[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
__________________
It's not yours 'til ya bleed on it . . .

1977 "401" 'Da Chief
1979 Chero: "Madness" [Sold]
1985 CJ : Renegade -locked and loaded
2001 XJ : Driver 2016 JK 2 door

'Da Chief here: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...ighlight=chief

Round 2- LT Swap: 'Da Chief:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=188457

"Madness" build here:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=89280

Last edited by cu4whln : 05-01-2020 at 10:02 PM.
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  #59  
Old 05-01-2020, 07:59 PM
cu4whln's Avatar
cu4whln cu4whln is offline
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Join Date: May 16, 2008
Location: Canton, Mi USA !
Posts: 1,192
Holly Fuel Pump module ...

After the sending unit, I wanted to assemble and install the Holly in tank fuel pump module. So off to the races we go!

Here are the parts in the kit … Fuel pump, a billet alum top piece that has an integral regulator set to 60 psi. Kit also provides a Hydramat as the pickup.
All told, a decent value with all that's included. But still, it's NOT cheap. This is a single feed line unit btw.. only one line going to the engine, no return required.

[IMG][/IMG]

The directions are "Decent".. not great. They have you do some measuring to cut the mounting bracket and fuel feed tube to fit your tank depth.
Note, the aluminum mounting post has 2 set screws to securely lock it in. Very solid, not all floppy like some I have seen.

[IMG][/IMG]

After securing the mounting post, you attach the fuel pump with 2 clamps - and it's secure. Snap in the wire... almost ready.
The white part is the internal regulator btw.

[IMG][/IMG]

The final part is installing the Hydramat pick up. It just so happens to fit in the fuel slosh baffle area very well.

[IMG][/IMG]

Installed - but not for the final time as I need to decide what I am doing about fuel fittings and lines.
The 5 tightening bolts swing the locking cam features under the bottom edge of the tank - compressing the foam gasket.

[IMG][/IMG]

This is hard to see, but looking down the fill neck, you can see the Hydramat on the bottom of the tank. Next is fuel lines and final install.

[IMG][/IMG]
__________________
It's not yours 'til ya bleed on it . . .

1977 "401" 'Da Chief
1979 Chero: "Madness" [Sold]
1985 CJ : Renegade -locked and loaded
2001 XJ : Driver 2016 JK 2 door

'Da Chief here: http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...ighlight=chief

Round 2- LT Swap: 'Da Chief:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=188457

"Madness" build here:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=89280

Last edited by cu4whln : 05-01-2020 at 10:04 PM.
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  #60  
Old 05-03-2020, 05:00 AM
Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81's Avatar
Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81 Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81 is offline
Cherokee Outlaw
 
Join Date: Jan 10, 2006
Location: Haze Gray
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Jim, I had the same issues with my sending unit from BJ's. IIRC it is a Crown part.
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1979 Cherokee Golden Eagle - UNDER CONSTRUCTION
7" Alcan springs, BJ's HD shackles - 35x12.5x15 BFG Mud Terrains
AMC 401 - Pro-FLo 4 FI
NV4500/NWF BB/NP205 - Triple Stick'd
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R M23 - 4.10, Detroit Locker

1979 Cherokee Chief - Parts
1979 Cherokee Chief - Parts
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