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  #1  
Old 11-03-2014, 12:13 AM
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grandwag89 grandwag89 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 27, 2009
Location: Owensboro, KY
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Jeep T18 vs Ford T18, what are the possibilities?

Hey guys, posting this here because the drivetrain forum looks very dead, and I'm sure it'll get more attention here.

What my plan is, is to use the drivetrain from the J20 in my GW, both in my signature. The only issue I have is the lack of a PTO on the Jeep T18, other than that the trans is in relatively good shape. I've searched both on here and around the web about Ford T18 swaps, and so far what I've concluded is that the output shafts are the same spline count, as are the input shafts, only a different length, and a custom pilot bushing is required/recommended to use the Ford version with the AMC crank. I've also heard that the bell spacer isn't used when swapping to the Ford version. What I'm needing to know, just for simplicity's sake, if I had both a Ford T18 and a Jeep T18 sitting side-by-side, is there any way I could combine the two? As in, use the Jeep guts in the Ford case and add the PTO drive? If not, has anyone ever had any experience in this field and know EXACTLY what goes on when swapping? I've seen too much contradicting information, just trying to get everything straight. Thanks in advance!
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1989 Grand Wagoneer: 360/727/229, D44 F&R, 3.31, 125K
1983 J20: 360/T18A/208, D60FF/D44HD, 4.10, 193K
------------------------------------------------------
Non-FSJ:
1980 Ford F100: 302 2V/C4, 9", 2.75, 180K
1992 Ford F150: 302 EFI/M5OD, 8.8, 3.55, 300K
1995 Chevrolet C2500: 350 TBI/4L60E, 14 Bolt, 3.42, 315K
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  #2  
Old 11-03-2014, 08:21 AM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
Join Date: May 29, 2003
Location: Medford MA USA
Posts: 11,151
The Jeep T-18 has the PTO cover on the driver's side (tailored for passenger drop). This is opposite the Ford T-18, which is on the passenger side (tailored for driver drop).

I would first look around and try to find a PTO for a Jeep T-18. SE2056012. Try places like J&W in California, R&P in Oregon.

You can put the main shaft of the Jeep T-18 into a Ford case, and use the Ford gears, but that makes the input shaft very short, and the shifter will then come up under the dash.

Instead - you can put the Jeep guts into a Ford case. Both the front and rear patterns of the case will no longer match the pattern on the Jeep adapters. The rear pattern (transmission to transfer case adapter) can be made to work fairly easily, so I'm told. It involves drilling and tapping some new holes in the Ford case and tapping and plugging some existing holes.

You may be able to drill and tap the front of the Ford case to accept the Jeep adapter. I recall three of the four holes will line up, and you would have to determine a way to make the case attach to the single offset hole on the Jeep adapter.

Then I would wonder whether there will be room for for a PTO on the passenger side - the driveshaft will be in the way. The hole in the case is positioned on these so that the PTO is always on the opposite side of the front driveshaft.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
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  #3  
Old 11-03-2014, 09:58 AM
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grandwag89 grandwag89 is offline
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My setup is driver's drop, so the PTO on the passenger side is what I'm looking for. Also, there is no PTO cover on the Jeep t18, only a boss where it should be, which is still on the driver's side. From what I read that was done in 1980 when everything else changed. I thought the post-'80 cases were the same between the Ford and Jeep versions, is this not true? Just thought though, would the Jeep internals even have the PTO drive gears?
__________________
1989 Grand Wagoneer: 360/727/229, D44 F&R, 3.31, 125K
1983 J20: 360/T18A/208, D60FF/D44HD, 4.10, 193K
------------------------------------------------------
Non-FSJ:
1980 Ford F100: 302 2V/C4, 9", 2.75, 180K
1992 Ford F150: 302 EFI/M5OD, 8.8, 3.55, 300K
1995 Chevrolet C2500: 350 TBI/4L60E, 14 Bolt, 3.42, 315K
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  #4  
Old 11-03-2014, 10:59 AM
tgreese's Avatar
tgreese tgreese is offline
 
Join Date: May 29, 2003
Location: Medford MA USA
Posts: 11,151
Quote:
Originally Posted by grandwag89
My setup is driver's drop, so the PTO on the passenger side is what I'm looking for. Also, there is no PTO cover on the Jeep t18, only a boss where it should be, which is still on the driver's side. From what I read that was done in 1980 when everything else changed.

Likely. I missed that it's an '83 J20. I don't know what the compatibility is on the transfer case end - I recall that it is the same between Ford and Jeep.

Quote:
I thought the post-'80 cases were the same between the Ford and Jeep versions, is this not true? Just thought though, would the Jeep internals even have the PTO drive gears?

I don't think so. I expect the front pattern for the Jeep does not change. I have an example to look at at home. Should be obvious if you look.

Jeep T-18 front pattern:



Ford front pattern (this is a T-176, but the bolt pattern is the same):




Anyway, you should not have any difficulty swapping gears between the cases. I understand that there is a difference in front bearing thickness between new and old, but this should not be an issue if you are using all the gears from the Jeep transmission.

AFAIK there's no special gears inside the case that are used for the PTO. Instead, the PTO gear sticks into the case and meshes with the teeth on the countershaft.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
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  #5  
Old 11-04-2014, 04:33 AM
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grandwag89 grandwag89 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 27, 2009
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I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised. Ford T18's I'm fairly accustomed to and know of most variations, but I've never had any hands-on experience with the Jeep versions, and the internet just makes a mess of any useful information. Guess it's time to crawl under the truck and give it a good looking over, that should shed a bit of light on what I'm working with.
__________________
1989 Grand Wagoneer: 360/727/229, D44 F&R, 3.31, 125K
1983 J20: 360/T18A/208, D60FF/D44HD, 4.10, 193K
------------------------------------------------------
Non-FSJ:
1980 Ford F100: 302 2V/C4, 9", 2.75, 180K
1992 Ford F150: 302 EFI/M5OD, 8.8, 3.55, 300K
1995 Chevrolet C2500: 350 TBI/4L60E, 14 Bolt, 3.42, 315K
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  #6  
Old 11-04-2014, 04:54 PM
Heimeken's Avatar
Heimeken Heimeken is offline
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Nov 29, 2000
Location: El Paso, TX, US
Posts: 1,964
Why can't you just swap the Jeep input shaft into the ford, and use the Jeep bellhousing and spacer? The front is the same butterfly pattern and the rear should be the same, as long as it came from a ford with a New Process case.

I have a similar setup. (ford T18, Jeep input, New Process 208) custom built by parts mike.
__________________
'85 Grand Wagoneer "Caterpillar"
401, NV4500, 3/4 ton gear

'79 Cherokee "The Sandgorgon"
One Tons, SOA,T18 on 40's

78 J10 "Imoteb"
J20 running gear and axles
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  #7  
Old 11-05-2014, 04:36 AM
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grandwag89 grandwag89 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heimeken
Why can't you just swap the Jeep input shaft into the ford, and use the Jeep bellhousing and spacer? The front is the same butterfly pattern and the rear should be the same, as long as it came from a ford with a New Process case.

I have a similar setup. (ford T18, Jeep input, New Process 208) custom built by parts mike.

I was hoping for such a response. Are you certain that front pattern is the same?
__________________
1989 Grand Wagoneer: 360/727/229, D44 F&R, 3.31, 125K
1983 J20: 360/T18A/208, D60FF/D44HD, 4.10, 193K
------------------------------------------------------
Non-FSJ:
1980 Ford F100: 302 2V/C4, 9", 2.75, 180K
1992 Ford F150: 302 EFI/M5OD, 8.8, 3.55, 300K
1995 Chevrolet C2500: 350 TBI/4L60E, 14 Bolt, 3.42, 315K
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  #8  
Old 11-10-2014, 10:56 AM
Heimeken's Avatar
Heimeken Heimeken is offline
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Nov 29, 2000
Location: El Paso, TX, US
Posts: 1,964
Yes, I had a T176 before the T18, I used the same bellhousing and spacer for the T18.

Here's a pic:

__________________
'85 Grand Wagoneer "Caterpillar"
401, NV4500, 3/4 ton gear

'79 Cherokee "The Sandgorgon"
One Tons, SOA,T18 on 40's

78 J10 "Imoteb"
J20 running gear and axles
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  #9  
Old 11-11-2014, 03:03 AM
grandwag89's Avatar
grandwag89 grandwag89 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 27, 2009
Location: Owensboro, KY
Posts: 391
Fantastic! Now if I can just get my hands on a blasted Ford T18! I was considering a NP435 swap at first, but I'd like to retain as much stock equipment as possible. Don't particularly NEED the lower first gear anyway.
__________________
1989 Grand Wagoneer: 360/727/229, D44 F&R, 3.31, 125K
1983 J20: 360/T18A/208, D60FF/D44HD, 4.10, 193K
------------------------------------------------------
Non-FSJ:
1980 Ford F100: 302 2V/C4, 9", 2.75, 180K
1992 Ford F150: 302 EFI/M5OD, 8.8, 3.55, 300K
1995 Chevrolet C2500: 350 TBI/4L60E, 14 Bolt, 3.42, 315K
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  #10  
Old 11-11-2014, 05:25 AM
Atla's Avatar
Atla Atla is offline
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Location: Morganton NC
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Here you go, $100.

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=172274
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~Atla.
My '83 J-10 Rebuild
http://fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2722
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  #11  
Old 11-11-2014, 02:16 PM
grandwag89's Avatar
grandwag89 grandwag89 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 27, 2009
Location: Owensboro, KY
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That's a good deal, but I'm needing a post-'79 version.
__________________
1989 Grand Wagoneer: 360/727/229, D44 F&R, 3.31, 125K
1983 J20: 360/T18A/208, D60FF/D44HD, 4.10, 193K
------------------------------------------------------
Non-FSJ:
1980 Ford F100: 302 2V/C4, 9", 2.75, 180K
1992 Ford F150: 302 EFI/M5OD, 8.8, 3.55, 300K
1995 Chevrolet C2500: 350 TBI/4L60E, 14 Bolt, 3.42, 315K
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