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  #1  
Old 11-17-2003, 03:22 PM
The Donzi The Donzi is offline
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I am getting ready to install my new 14 bolt and I need some adveice on what rear springs to use so I can clear the gas tank. I searched alot and found some good info but no real clear input on how this setup works out....

I have RB's shackle kit for the rear so I am thinking about flipping the mounts around and using some 63" springs. Any advice for or against this?? How much lift will I gain with stock 93' 3/4 ton burb springs??? I am currently SOA up front with stock springs and extended chevy shackles, and stock springs and a 2" block in the rear.

Thanks...I want to get it right so fill me in on all the drawbacks..
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  #2  
Old 11-17-2003, 03:30 PM
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blt2krl blt2krl is offline
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I run 63in burb springs out back with RB's kit. I used the springs to move my axle back (3- 3.5 inches) and out of the way of the gas tank. I have zero interference with full cycling of the suspension. I run rancho 44044's up front which are 2.5 in lift spirngs, for the rear I run the burb springs with the overload removed. It sits perfect. So if you take out the overload you have a 2.5 inch lift spring and if you leave the overload in you would have about a 4in lift spring. This setup flexes like crazy.
http://www.planet4x4.net/phpBB2/albu...php?pic_id=580
http://www.planet4x4.net/phpBB2/albu...php?pic_id=578
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DANA 60/14 BOLT 5.13'S AND DETROITS
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  #3  
Old 11-17-2003, 03:37 PM
Bob Barry Bob Barry is offline
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Well, here are some pics to give you an idea of what kind of interference you'll see with the stock tank:



Just to the right of the tank, you can see the ghostly image of the QT reduction unit; on a centered-output transfer-case, that is where the output shaft would be.

Perhaps it is clearer how much interference there is from a shot straight on from the rear:



As you can see, you would have to run a ridiculous amount of lift, and a very skinny driveshaft, to ensure that nothing ever hit the gas-tank.

If you were running the stock QT case, you might get away with it.

FWIW, those are stock 5-leaf Cherokee springs. The shackle-flip and 2" extended shackles netted me about 9.5" of lift in the back with those stock springs. It's already riding kind of high in back:



I can't imagine that 4" lift springs or whatever it would take to just clear the tank with no articulation would improve the offroadability of the truck. Those 63" Suburban springs sound like just the ticket for flex, but they won't help you clear that gas-tank.

I think that's why a switch to a Bronco or Blazer tank behind the axle is the way most people go; it's simple enough to swap, and it gets rid of any chance of interference. That is, unless you move the rear axle back too far; then the pumpkin might scrape the tank. Even with mine moved back 3", it doesn't look like it's going to touch the tank.
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Old 11-17-2003, 03:51 PM
The Donzi The Donzi is offline
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Well, now I'm a little confused. If I run the 63" burb springs without the overload with a stock QT with offset output will I still hit the tank???? Or will I be alright??

Bob, it sounds like the interferance you are talking about is due to a centered output?? I am running a stock QT output and a stock tank...any issues with this and the 14 bolt with 63" springs or is it just a problem with a centered output??
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1979 Cherokee Chief <br />360,400,1339,44,14ff,SOA,<br />Hydro assist,44044\'s, 63\" chevy rears, Dual electric fans, 35\"SX\'s on hummer rims Rhino lined interior, f/r reciever hitches, Warn 9000i<br />Edelbrock intake, truck avenger<br />Engle cam, chopped, caged
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Old 11-17-2003, 03:53 PM
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blt2krl blt2krl is offline
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Let me clarify that I run a QT transfer case and there is ZERO interference with the gas tank, driveshaft, or axle (which is a 14 bolt) with 63in bufrb springs. My drive shaft is a custom made shaft from Arizona driveshafts. It is 3in tube and .75 wall with 1350 series u-joints. If your running a centered t-case the gas tank will be in the way regardless. I'm removing my stock tank to clean the under belly up and prepare for one of those Atlas t-cases, when and if the QT goes south. Yes with RB's kit installed the way he has ment the kit to be insatlled the springs will move your axle back 3-3.5 inches and it will help clear the tank in a QT vehicle.
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  #6  
Old 11-17-2003, 03:57 PM
Bob Barry Bob Barry is offline
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Ah, you're both running the stock QT. Yes, then you won't have to move the tank.

I'm going to be running an NP205, and blt2krl is right on; there is no way it would work with that tank there.

I'll be putting in my dual-exhaust mufflers on each side of the driveshaft, and rigging up some kind of anti-wrap-bar in there as well, so that side will still be occupied.

How bad is your front shaft angle with the QT? I thought about trying to hook mine up, just to see if it would reach, but the angle would be severe at the pinion.
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  #7  
Old 11-17-2003, 03:58 PM
The Donzi The Donzi is offline
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Blt2krl: that is some awesome flex, what did you get your rear springs out of?? Are all the 63" springs basically the same??

Thanks for the input guys...I've found that the more time I spend learnig from others the less time I spend kicking myself in the @$$ later..
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  #8  
Old 11-17-2003, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Donzi:
Blt2krl: that is some awesome flex, what did you get your rear springs out of?? Are all the 63" springs basically the same??

Thanks for the input guys...I've found that the more time I spend learnig from others the less time I spend kicking myself in the @$$ later..
93 half ton suburban, My front drive shaft is also an AZ drivline highangle. is has a max angle of 40 degrees.
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79 waggoneer
AMC360/TH-400/203/205
DANA 60/14 BOLT 5.13'S AND DETROITS
39.5 IROKS C.B.I OFF ROAD TUBING GALORE
www.cbioffroadfab.com
WWW.PLANET4X4.NET
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  #9  
Old 11-17-2003, 04:02 PM
The Donzi The Donzi is offline
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My front shaft is from Arizona Drivelines as well, I got the high angle long spline and it is pretty stout compared to stock.

Blt2krl; did you change the yoke on the QT to fit 1350?? Or are you running a conversion ujoint? I was planning on just keeping the stock rear shaft for now and using a conversion joint...any problems with doing that??
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  #10  
Old 11-17-2003, 04:25 PM
River Beast River Beast is offline
 
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I guess all the Q's have been answered... thanks Paul..

I run my kit swapped... meaning rear brackets left to right and right to left on the 96 Burb springs I have and got 4.5" of rearward relocation... and gained about 2" of lift with the overloads trashed...FYI

I also have a custom rear CV shaft from AZ Driveline.... 1310 CV at the D20 and 1350 slip yoke at the 14FF with a 3.5" thickwall tube...

Front shaft is a high angle custom CV that I relieved myself... workin so far.. but AZD will get my wallet for the 40 degree high angle when this one frags out...

[ November 17, 2003, 10:31 PM: Message edited by: River Beast ]
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  #11  
Old 11-17-2003, 04:33 PM
The Donzi The Donzi is offline
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Thanks for all the input guys... heres a pic of my new 14bolt...I know I have it on another post but I can't help it ....

http://www.superford.org/getfile.php...ffs%20axle.JPG
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1979 Cherokee Chief <br />360,400,1339,44,14ff,SOA,<br />Hydro assist,44044\'s, 63\" chevy rears, Dual electric fans, 35\"SX\'s on hummer rims Rhino lined interior, f/r reciever hitches, Warn 9000i<br />Edelbrock intake, truck avenger<br />Engle cam, chopped, caged
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  #12  
Old 11-17-2003, 05:07 PM
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rockjeep44 rockjeep44 is offline
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Donzi, pretty much everything has been covered but I'd like to add that there is quite a difference between the 3/4 ton and 1/2 ton Chevy springs. If you plan on doing towing, hauling, etc go with the 3/4. If you plan on mostly offroading go with the 1/2 ton. The last waggy I built I used the 1/2 ton chevy pickup springs in the rear and 2.5in rancho 44044s in the front. I removed the overload from the chevy springs which made it a 3 leaf pack. I can say that they are extremely soft and very flexy and matched the front 44044s perfectly with Todd's kit. I did however have to install Todd's kit custom because the chevy springs were so long at ride height the shackle angle was almost flat it was pushed so far back. I just moved Todd's brackets further back on the frame and gusseted it with some brackets. Worked great but requires a welder, grinder, etc. Also, fuel cells are quite cheap, I'd ditch that coffin tank anyways. It makes the underside SO NICE
-Andrew
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Buggy Buildup

Quote:
Originally Posted by welchct
There are about 5 trails that actualy have section that are upwards of 85* and climb 40-50 feet at this deg.

"The combination of fine split tail and fine whiskey will make any man lose focus." -FSJeeper
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  #13  
Old 11-17-2003, 05:09 PM
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rockjeep44 rockjeep44 is offline
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finished product:





[ November 17, 2003, 11:09 PM: Message edited by: rockjeep44 ]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by welchct
There are about 5 trails that actualy have section that are upwards of 85* and climb 40-50 feet at this deg.

"The combination of fine split tail and fine whiskey will make any man lose focus." -FSJeeper
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  #14  
Old 11-18-2003, 02:58 AM
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blt2krl blt2krl is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Donzi:

Blt2krl; did you change the yoke on the QT to fit 1350?? Or are you running a conversion ujoint? I was planning on just keeping the stock rear shaft for now and using a conversion joint...any problems with doing that??
I have a 1350 series yoke on my QT. You could use a conversion joint. I personally decided to go the other route. I have one extra yoke if ya want to buy it. I know that AZ sells them for about $140, i bought two for $130. I would sell it to ya for $65 + shipping. It is a dana 20 yoke, 10 spline. PM if ya want the details on the swap and install.
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AMC360/TH-400/203/205
DANA 60/14 BOLT 5.13'S AND DETROITS
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  #15  
Old 11-22-2003, 07:00 AM
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Zorm Zorm is offline
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Hey Bob, on your corp 14, di you need to remove the GM spring perches? I have a 14 bolt that I am putting under my 83 Chero. Right now I have the AMC 20 in the rear and it is centered diff, Do any one know if I would run into the tank interferance this also??
Donzi, did you paint that or get it painted??
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  #16  
Old 11-22-2003, 07:55 AM
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blt2krl blt2krl is offline
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You maybe fine since you all ready have a centered diff. The pinion on the 14 bolt should be a little more to the right than your 20 right now. For the 14 bolt to bolt in you need to move the perches ro 43.5 to match your rig's spring setup.
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  #17  
Old 11-22-2003, 01:17 PM
Bob Barry Bob Barry is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zorm:
Hey Bob, on your corp 14, di you need to remove the GM spring perches? I have a 14 bolt that I am putting under my 83 Chero. Right now I have the AMC 20 in the rear and it is centered diff, Do any one know if I would run into the tank interferance this also?
I made my spring-eye brackets wider on purpose, as the perches on the 14-bolt were 1" closer together than on a stock FSJ axle. To facilitate future axle and spring swaps, I used a U-channel wider than the springs, to accomodate a range of factory spring-perches, and I will take up the extra space with plate spacers.
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  #18  
Old 11-22-2003, 01:40 PM
The Donzi The Donzi is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zorm:
Donzi, did you paint that or get it painted??
I painted it using rattle can gloss and some model paints.
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  #19  
Old 11-22-2003, 03:08 PM
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Donzi check your PM's
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AMC360/TH-400/203/205
DANA 60/14 BOLT 5.13'S AND DETROITS
39.5 IROKS C.B.I OFF ROAD TUBING GALORE
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  #20  
Old 11-22-2003, 10:37 PM
oldyellowwagoneer oldyellowwagoneer is offline
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Well, since as far as i know I was the first to use the suburban springs I figured I should chime in here and explain why I like them. The first reason for using them was so I could get the rear axle pushed backward to enable me to run 38" swampers without having to cut into the front edge of the rear wheelwell,I just cut the back out and kept it reasonably stock looking. The other reason was so my dana 70 wouldnt hit the gas tank on full compression(yes I found out the hard way).With the quadratrac I had no problem with the driveshaft, but when I went to a centered np203 I couldn't clear the stock tank. I put in an aftermarket aux. tank I found in the wrecking yard for $7.50 to solve that problem. With late model tanks I think you might clear just fine as they're narrower but I'm not positive. The ride difference with these springs as compared to either stock or lift springs is like night and day. We mostly have mud and sand to play in so it wasn't necessary to remove the overloads in my case although once I get my doubler in I will be experimenting without them. They allowed me to eleminate blocks altogether in the rear and there's no axle wrap.I have SOA and 4" springs up front and when theres nothing in the back it sits up about1 1/2" higher than the front.Between them and the Dodge shackle mounts I used to build my shackle flip kit I have a total of $90.00 in the whole rear lift. Dennis
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