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  #41  
Old 01-15-2019, 06:54 PM
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Wagoneer Taylor Wagoneer Taylor is offline
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Good advice guys thanks, maybe i will spend this weekend working on finding out what is really going on with mine.

If i locked the hubs and still did not have all wheel drive would that be any clue for you guys? Showing my lack of 4WD knowledge here...

When i first replaced the locking hubs, i locked them while on some gravel then goosed the gas pedal and all it did was spin the rear wheels like it did when they were unlocked.
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  #42  
Old 01-16-2019, 10:35 AM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Sounds to me like you have good news and bad news:
Good news: Someone probably saved you the time, effort, and money and installed a part time kit, already (or, your QT Dif is toast, my money is your are already part time).
Bad news: In order to get into 4WD, you HAVE to get your vacuum shift motor working.

You can replace the shift motor without pulling the whole transfer case, but you have to open up the case, to do so. That means a couple hours, on your back, laying in ATF as it drips on you/down your arms while you work. It is not hard at all and totally worth doing it yourself. You said you already applied vacuum to both nipples (at the shift motor) and neither one of them held vacuum, right?
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  #43  
Old 01-16-2019, 11:57 AM
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Wagoneer Taylor Wagoneer Taylor is offline
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Without that vacuum actuator (shift motor) should i still have 4WD if i lock my hubs?
Just not E Drive?

I do plan on doing it myself, and yes it did not hold vacuum on either port, do I need to plug on side as i apply vac to the other?
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  #44  
Old 01-16-2019, 12:28 PM
wiley-moeracing wiley-moeracing is offline
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That will not work, diaphragm is bad so rod will not move, sounds like you have a part time kit if you have the locking hubs up front, good. you can remove the top cover and manually move the shift fork forwards or backwards but will need some access to get to it as it is on top above the vacuum diaphragm. I would look into doing the cable shift conversion as the diaphragm is getting expensive to replace.
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  #45  
Old 01-16-2019, 12:32 PM
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Wagoneer Taylor Wagoneer Taylor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiley-moeracing
That will not work, diaphragm is bad so rod will not move, sounds like you have a part time kit if you have the locking hubs up front, good. you can remove the top cover and manually move the shift fork forwards or backwards but will need some access to get to it as it is on top above the vacuum diaphragm. I would look into doing the cable shift conversion as the diaphragm is getting expensive to replace.

I like the cable idea. Any good threads on here for home made or off the shelf conversions?

I have seen kits for CJs with Quadratrac, I assume it would work or could be modified to work. The kicker is they are like $150 and don't want to waste my money.
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  #46  
Old 01-16-2019, 01:33 PM
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Driftwood Driftwood is offline
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I am just sharing my opinion and experiences. There are others here on IFSJA who have more TC expertise than I. I recommend seeking them out.

You should have 4WD if you lock your hubs.

You will not have E-Drive unless you can somehow manually shift the vacuum actuator rod.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagoneer Taylor
Without that vacuum actuator (shift motor) should i still have 4WD if i lock my hubs?
Just not E Drive?

The vacuum actuator consists of two independent vacuum chambers. Plugging one while applying vacuum to the other provides no benefit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagoneer Taylor
I do plan on doing it myself, and yes it did not hold vacuum on either port, do I need to plug on side as i apply vac to the other?

Also. The actuators are getting hard to find. I bought mine from BJ's offroad in 2016. I don't see them listed there now.

A quick google search returned this website. There is several NOS for 33 bucks. I paid 71.05 which included shipping.
Jeep Quadratrac Quadra Trac Vacuum Diaphragm Emergency Drive BW 1339 NOS

There will be other items you should order while replacing the actuator. Here's a list of items I replaced.

Quadratrac Emergency Drive Switch
Quadratrac Gasket and Seal Kit
Jeep Quadratrac Vacuum Diaphragm Emergency Drive BW 1339 NOS
Stainless steel pneumatic lines
Quadratrac Vacuum Switch - Glove box Mounted
Quadratrac Fluid
pneumatic rubber lines
7/16 - 14 by 5-inch threaded rod

From my experience, there really is no other way to remove and install TC parts. Removing it and the drive lines from the wagoneer was the only way for me.
You really need to consider if doing all this work for the benefit of having E-drive is worth it. For me, the answer was simple. I did it.
Being a 79, the transfer case and all of its components and chain were not worn or stretched out of limits. I got lucky.
I now have E-drive and I just used it this morning in the snow. My low range works as well.
But NEVER EVER will I take it out on the trails and hammer the dog snot out of the TC. I treasure my chain.
Knowing how hard it was to remove and install the TC and both drive lines (by myself), it will be a miserable day if I ever have to do this work again.

Last edited by Driftwood : 01-16-2019 at 04:08 PM.
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  #47  
Old 01-16-2019, 02:14 PM
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Driftwood Driftwood is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagoneer Taylor
I like the cable idea. Any good threads on here for home made or off the shelf conversions?

I have seen kits for CJs with Quadratrac, I assume it would work or could be modified to work. The kicker is they are like $150 and don't want to waste my money.

These are instructions I saved from IFSJA years ago. It details a manual shift conversion by Allen Kelley.

Convert the vacuum actuated emergency drive to cable actuated.
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  #48  
Old 01-16-2019, 02:58 PM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Without shifting the transfer case, even with locked hubs, you cannot get power to the front axle. If you lock your wheel hubs, that is locking the wheel to the drive axle which is connected to the front drive shaft, and the driveshaft will spin when driving but you are not applying power to the front wheels. Shifting the transfer case is what connects the transmission output to the front drive shaft, via the lower sprocket in the case.

On a traditional QT, the power goes out the trans, into the reduction gear (if you have one), to the upper sprocket, through the chain to the QT lower sprocket and to the front/rear axles. This lower sprocket has a sort of limited slip in it so it provides power to both axles all the time but allows some slippage so you can turn on drive pavement without binding up your tires (All Wheel drive). When you select E-Drive, it locks the front and rear outputs together and it is no longer able to slip between the front and rear axles (4WD). That's why you shouldn't really drive with it on dry pavement.

With a PT kit, you remove that lower sprocket and replace it with one that does not send power to the front axle all the time. So that means power leaves the trans, go through the reduction gear (if you have one), to the upper sprocket, to the new lower sprocket and ONLY to the rear axle turning your truck into a 2WD. This is why you can spin the front driveshaft even if you are in park (if the hubs are both unlocked). Then when you select E-Drive, it locks the 2 axles together, making your truck 4WD.

I don't mind the vacuum shifter. I paid big bucks for a NOS one too (I bought one from the dude on ebay but i think i paid $70 at the time) but there are plenty of originals out there that still work so I figure if they last this long, mine will outlast me.
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  #49  
Old 01-16-2019, 03:55 PM
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Wagoneer Taylor Wagoneer Taylor is offline
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Thanks guys for the info!
I will update you after this weekend as to what i find out on mine.

Driftwood, as for doing all the other stuff to the TC, my hope was to do this without pulling it out of the Wagon. If it comes to pulling the TC out I will wait and do a proper rebuild at a later time, I have so many other things to tackle first, 4WD is not mandatory right now it drives as is. The other stuff I'm working on will allow me to still drive the Wagon while I do it. Sounds like I just need to dive into this and see what I have/need.

That being said, I am for sure saving that link to the cable conversion. That is exactly what i was looking for. Thanks guys!
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  #50  
Old 01-16-2019, 04:26 PM
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Wagoneer Taylor Wagoneer Taylor is offline
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Over the last weekend I didn't do much, except get the 401 I picked up out of the back of the Wagon and on a stand.

Here it is in the rig with all the other stuff I picked up. Good thing these Wagons have a ton of space.

Cleaned out all the stuff around the engine, components, front bench seat, drivers fender, windshield, and misc parts.

Now we had 4 guys to push it into the Wagon and over the rear axle, at home we had 2. So with some redneck engineering we pulled the engine to the back to be able to grab it with the engine lift.

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Soon to be a 401!
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  #51  
Old 01-16-2019, 04:31 PM
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Like birthing a 800 pound baby she comes out.

Some more shots of the beautiful (or soon to be beautiful) 401!


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  #52  
Old 01-16-2019, 07:54 PM
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SOLSAKS SOLSAKS is offline
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DANG looks like a nice engine

good score !

dave in NC
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1982 J-10 Fleetside
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  #53  
Old 01-18-2019, 09:29 AM
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Wagoneer Taylor Wagoneer Taylor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLSAKS
DANG looks like a nice engine

good score !

dave in NC

Thanks!
I plan on pulling a few things off to investigate how it looks, but if she looks okay internally, I will just clean it up and run it as is until the wife approves a whole rebuild similar to Rang-a-stangs 401. I want a decent driver, that we could take road trips in. (Road trips stopping at every gas station)
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  #54  
Old 01-18-2019, 11:48 AM
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SOLSAKS SOLSAKS is offline
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P.S.
I love those red barns.
dave in NC
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1982 J-10 Fleetside
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  #55  
Old 01-22-2019, 05:09 PM
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Wagoneer Taylor Wagoneer Taylor is offline
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Not a ton to update from this weekend.

The main goal of the day was to install a new water pump on the 360 that is in the rig. This was successful but took way longer then expected. I had so much crude built up in there it was amazing it ran as good as it did. So i did the poor mans engine flush with a good garden hose. Re-installed the new water pump and old alternator and power steering brackets.
Before:

After:


Second goal was to then fix all the vacuum leaks i have going on, (this has been on going since i got the vehicle), so i broke out the starting fluid and starting spraying, but i finally stopped so many that i had to time the engine! Yes you heard me right, it was running so bad with all the vacuum leaks that the timing had to be WAY advanced to even idle. So with all the vacuum leaks stopped minus changing the intake manifold gasket and setting the timing she purrs like a kitten now. (Intake Gasket next weekend)

Lastly on the goals list was to investigate my 4WD/E-Drive, I did crawl under the Wagon, with it in park I can freely spin my front drive axle, so it appears to have had a part time kit installed with the locking hubs. My vacuum lines to the vacuum actuator have been severed since i got the rig. (mis-spoke before, I "thought" i tested the vacuum actuator but was not able to get vacuum on either side, this being because the lines were severed. I also was not able to get to the vacuum actuator under the Wagon so I began removing the access panel in the floor.---That is as far as i got.


One more item is to start going through the dash wiring, currently the only functioning thing in the dash is the speedo. I will be pulling the gauge cluster and climate controls to inspect it this weekend also. If anyone has pointers on doing this please send them my way!
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  #56  
Old 01-22-2019, 05:12 PM
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Wagoneer Taylor Wagoneer Taylor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLSAKS
P.S.
I love those red barns.
dave in NC

Thanks, that is my parents place here in Oregon. Living in an apartment now, makes it hard to work on the Wagon during the week so weekend is all I got while the wife and I save for a house next year.
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Soon to be a 401!
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  #57  
Old 01-23-2019, 12:54 PM
wiley-moeracing wiley-moeracing is offline
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you need the fan shroud.
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  #58  
Old 01-23-2019, 02:54 PM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiley-moeracing
you need the fan shroud.
This forum is full of posts like this:
Poster: My truck always overheats [or overheats on the highway, or overheats when on the street]. i don't know why
Replier: Do you have a stock fan and fan shroud?
Poster: Nope, but I do have a new radiator, flushed the system, and a new TStat
Replier: you need a stock fan and shroud.
Poster: Woa! I put a stock fan and shroud on and now my truck NEVER over heats!!!

You can rotate the E-Drive vacuum motor in the case so you can get access to the vacuum nipples. You may not need to pull it. If you put vacuum on one nipple and it holds, then you put vacuum on the other and it holds, you may be good. IMHO, it is easier to work on the case in the rig: drain it, check your chain slop (use the link someone else gave you in the other thread on how to check chain slop), remove the shift lever from the low gear unit (if you have one), remove the 5 bolts holding the low gear unit, remove the low gear unit, remove the big C clip inside the planetary that is poking out from where your low gear unit was, remove all the bolts that hold the case together and open up the case. This will leave both sprockets and chain in the case. The motor can then be replaced from the case half you just dropped. You can spray the case out with brake fluid cleaner, etc.

Just make sure you have a huge piece of cardboard under you becuase it drips ATF. BTW, with a part time kit, you can run ATF in your case instead of the speacial QT fluid.
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  #59  
Old 01-23-2019, 03:17 PM
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Wagoneer Taylor Wagoneer Taylor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiley-moeracing
you need the fan shroud.

Yeah it is missing, but i do not have an overheating problem.

If you know where to get one I'd be interested?

thanks
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Soon to be a 401!
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  #60  
Old 01-23-2019, 03:19 PM
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Wagoneer Taylor Wagoneer Taylor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rang-a-stang
This forum is full of posts like this:
Poster: My truck always overheats [or overheats on the highway, or overheats when on the street]. i don't know why
Replier: Do you have a stock fan and fan shroud?
Poster: Nope, but I do have a new radiator, flushed the system, and a new TStat
Replier: you need a stock fan and shroud.
Poster: Woa! I put a stock fan and shroud on and now my truck NEVER over heats!!!

You can rotate the E-Drive vacuum motor in the case so you can get access to the vacuum nipples. You may not need to pull it. If you put vacuum on one nipple and it holds, then you put vacuum on the other and it holds, you may be good. IMHO, it is easier to work on the case in the rig: drain it, check your chain slop (use the link someone else gave you in the other thread on how to check chain slop), remove the shift lever from the low gear unit (if you have one), remove the 5 bolts holding the low gear unit, remove the low gear unit, remove the big C clip inside the planetary that is poking out from where your low gear unit was, remove all the bolts that hold the case together and open up the case. This will leave both sprockets and chain in the case. The motor can then be replaced from the case half you just dropped. You can spray the case out with brake fluid cleaner, etc.

Just make sure you have a huge piece of cardboard under you becuase it drips ATF. BTW, with a part time kit, you can run ATF in your case instead of the speacial QT fluid.

Thanks for the quick run through.

Can you get to the Vacuum Actuator from underneath?
Or do you have to get to it from the floor?

You may have answered this.
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