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  #41  
Old 01-23-2011, 04:46 PM
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Too many projects going on and I cant keep all the details straight.

Yes, the the Waggie is 80's era and has drivers side drop. It would be great for everything to drop in as easy as possible but I dont have a problem having to drill mount holes for trans and t-case x-member; and even having to weld in the frame part of the motor mounts to make it work.

So the 4.0 that has EFI will get better MPGs than a 258 with carb? But if I go with the 4.0 / AW4 combo then I have to swap all the electronics that go with it. Which I dont know if I can get away with that seeing as how this Wag will have to comply with smog in MO. Whereas the 258 was a Jeep engine and should pass, right? Or am I going to have to run a 304 to pass visual? Oh the insanity ramps up!
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  #42  
Old 01-23-2011, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger4X
360 / TF727 / NP229 .... shouldnt matter because motor mounts can be fabbed as well as trans and t-case x-members. Would be nice not to have to tho. Hoping they will be available out of a donor.

The 258/4.0L (depending on year) share motor mount points. So you can just grab frame towers for a 258 and you're in business. Radiator is fine (bottom output becomes an issue if it's not straightened).

I can't speak to the AW4, but the TH400 will use the stock cross member in one set of holes or another. The NV3550 I am running now also lined up pretty much perfectly with the factory cross member...think in the rearmost set of holes.

I imagine the AW4 mounting would be similar to the NV3550.


aa
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  #43  
Old 01-23-2011, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ the noisemaker
My vote would be the AW4 since it is a native to the I6 engines, and plentiful; However, you would need gears lower than 3.73, the wiring for the tranny, an adapter for the tranny to the TC or a slip yoke eliminator if you use the standard case, and the AW4 flexplate.

I've been told this before, so you'll get the same response.



What are you running with your 258?? No matter what I do in the end I have to make sure it will pass visual for MO smog no matter how clean it blows.
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  #44  
Old 01-23-2011, 04:48 PM
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Coolness so the thread was about adding an OD to a 258 ? ! ? So is MPG's the goal ? While still have enough grunt to move an FSJ on 31s ? ? ?

If so why not 360-401/TH-400 and a Howell TBI kit ? Or Eddie MPI kit ? And 3.55s or 3.73s ?
Mike
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1971 AMC/Jeep J4000DRW.
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  #45  
Old 01-23-2011, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger4X
Too many projects going on and I cant keep all the details straight.

Yes, the the Waggie is 80's era and has drivers side drop. It would be great for everything to drop in as easy as possible but I dont have a problem having to drill mount holes for trans and t-case x-member; and even having to weld in the frame part of the motor mounts to make it work.

So the 4.0 that has EFI will get better MPGs than a 258 with carb? But if I go with the 4.0 / AW4 combo then I have to swap all the electronics that go with it. Which I dont know if I can get away with that seeing as how this Wag will have to comply with smog in MO. Whereas the 258 was a Jeep engine and should pass, right? Or am I going to have to run a 304 to pass visual? Oh the insanity ramps up!

Cannot speak to the emissions laws in MO...in MI you can swap in any engine you want, as long as it is at least the same year or newer than the one coming out. It also has to meet the emissions of the vehicle it came out of. In my case I am running a 1994 4.0L from an XJ. If we had emissions testing here, that would be the vehicle I would be tested against.

As far as doing the electronics...it's not bad, honestly. If you do go that route let me know and I can send over the notes I took when I did the swap. I know that Simon also has experience on this subject.

I'd love to help out with this one if I were closer. Sounds like a fun project. If you can get a donor XJ for a good price it should keep the budget pretty tight, too. I paid $400 for the whole running rig my stuff came from...had a broken steering box. I sold the carcass for $200.


aa
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Last edited by Cecil14 : 01-24-2011 at 12:28 AM.
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  #46  
Old 01-23-2011, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMC-J/20
Coolness so the thread was about adding an OD to a 258 ? ! ? So is MPG's the goal ? While still have enough grunt to move an FSJ on 31s ? ? ?

If so why not 360-401/TH-400 and a Howell TBI kit ? Or Eddie MPI kit ? And 3.55s or 3.73s ?
Mike

Because budget is not limitless.


aa
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  #47  
Old 01-23-2011, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMC-J/20
Coolness so the thread was about adding an OD to a 258 ? ! ? So is MPG's the goal ? While still have enough grunt to move an FSJ on 31s ? ? ?

If so why not 360-401/TH-400 and a Howell TBI kit ? Or Eddie MPI kit ? And 3.55s or 3.73s ?
Mike



Sarcasm or serious

It already has a 360 / TF727 / NP229. MPGs are KING and is also run by a budget! A 401 and Howell are way out past Pluto for this one. And as fro grunt on 31's its all in the gearing.
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  #48  
Old 01-23-2011, 04:54 PM
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Supposedly the 4.0L MPI is quite portable if you get an OBD-1 engine. IIRC '94 was the last year for OBD-1?

You can fit the '81-on aluminum 258 manifold to a 4.0L HO with a little filing and fitting. It won't be quite as nice as the MPI, but I expect you will get better performance from a carbureted 4.0L HO than from a carbureted 258. The design of the 4.0L engine will give you more highway power than a 258.
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Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
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Last edited by tgreese : 01-23-2011 at 05:26 PM. Reason: MPI, not TBI
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  #49  
Old 01-23-2011, 04:55 PM
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OBDI went to 1995. Feds mandated OBDII from '96 up.


aa
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  #50  
Old 01-23-2011, 04:59 PM
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Ok its a 360/TF727, Just TBI the 360 ? Wouldn't that gain the MPGs ? And cost less then replacing the whole drive train ? ! ?

Mike
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1971 AMC/Jeep J4000DRW.
1983 AMC Eagle project SX/290.
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1989 Jeep GrandWagoneer.
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  #51  
Old 01-23-2011, 05:02 PM
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If you get 2mpg from TBI on a 360 I'd be amazed. TBI is really not much better than a well tuned carb for efficiency. Just less hassle once setup and tuned.


aa
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  #52  
Old 01-23-2011, 05:08 PM
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Ok I thought the MPGs would of spiked a bit more . . . To run the MPI your talking $3,200ish which isn't cost effective either . . .

Sorry just thought it would help ya.
Mike
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1953 REO M48.
1962 GMC C3000.
1969 AMC AMX-390 Resto.
1971 AMC/Jeep J4000DRW.
1983 AMC Eagle project SX/290.
1988 AMC/Jeep project MJ/343.
1989 Jeep GrandWagoneer.
1991 Dodge Ram-Charger.

A M C Means Jeep to me
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  #53  
Old 01-23-2011, 05:10 PM
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4.0L MPFI is real cheap. Biggest benefit of running a six.


aa
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  #54  
Old 01-23-2011, 05:10 PM
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What kind of MPG are you looking for? This Combo is not going to get you anything Fantastic at the very least. Time, Parts, maybe it runs good maybe it don't still = two tons of scrap iron going down the road. I have had J10's waggy's and Cherokee's with the 258, MPG was not their strong point. I have 2 2001 Grand Cherokee's and a 2000 Cherokee Sport, MPG is not their strong point either. I have a Daughter in College and I gave her my 2000 Cherokee Sport, mainly because it starts snowing in August and don't quit till May If it wasn't for that, I would have just bought her a nice little car that gets 40 MPG. I Drive a 2001 Grand Cherokee and I get about 13 to 14 in town and maybe 20 to 21 on the highway. The 2000 XJ did about the same within a mile or two. Take the power train out of an XJ and stuff it in a Waggy in hopes of gaining better MPG.........enough to warrant all the work and cost's of the swap is a Pipe Dream.
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  #55  
Old 01-23-2011, 05:13 PM
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If it would pass visual I'd be open to doing a TBI and HEI on the 258 if it can be done. The HEI may be spendy out of the box but much better than the dizzy and ignition module. Supposedly the TBI can be done on the cheap for the 360 even with new off the shelf parts, but canit be done on the 258?


I really dont think the 360 would gain much from the HEI and TBI so its wouldnt be worth it. I am open to a trade of 360 for 258 powertrains.
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  #56  
Old 01-23-2011, 05:14 PM
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doing all this retro-fitting in the name of saving money is fruitless. look at the cost to benefit ratio.

people don't put EFI and different drivetrains in these things because it's cost effective. they do it because they want to.
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  #57  
Old 01-23-2011, 05:27 PM
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Cecil14 Cecil14 is offline
 
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Again...if mpg is truly your main goal - look at a different vehicle. Look at the J-10 in my sig...I've done almost all the stuff in this thread to my truck. I get 16-17mpg on a REALLY great day on the highway.

You will never, and I mean never, get great mileage out of an SJ with a gasoline engine.


aa
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  #58  
Old 01-23-2011, 05:27 PM
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I don't know guys some thing about a square 4,500lb block of steal just screams 8-12mpgs . . . Some how 15-25MPG range is do able but its not very cost effective . . .

Sure a 225-275hp 3.9L/4.2L I-4 Cummins diesel can do 18-22mpgs maybe more, but how long you going to have to drive it ta break even ? 15 ? 20 ? 25 ? Years . . . My vote use the FSJ for big trips wheeling tow rig ect and get an MSJ for driving commuting ect.

MSJ = XJ/MJ Mid Sized Jeep MPGs n drive ability

Park the FSJ and get an MSJ
Mike
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1962 GMC C3000.
1969 AMC AMX-390 Resto.
1971 AMC/Jeep J4000DRW.
1983 AMC Eagle project SX/290.
1988 AMC/Jeep project MJ/343.
1989 Jeep GrandWagoneer.
1991 Dodge Ram-Charger.

A M C Means Jeep to me
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  #59  
Old 01-23-2011, 05:30 PM
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Tigger4X Tigger4X is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ristow
doing all this retro-fitting in the name of saving money is fruitless. look at the cost to benefit ratio.

people don't put EFI and different drivetrains in these things because it's cost effective. they do it because they want to.



What if I end up with a direct trade of powertrain for powertrain? You are saying there is ZERO gain to be had MPG wise?
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  #60  
Old 01-23-2011, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger4X
What if I end up with a direct trade of powertrain for powertrain? You are saying there is ZERO gain to be had MPG wise?

No, but the aerodynamics and weight of a FSJ will give you worse mileage than the same setup in an XJ or MJ.

The FSJ body style is really old, and has too much frontal area and lots of edges that stick out. I expect that's why the brow on the J-truck went away - too much like an air dam.
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Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
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