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Old 01-03-2013, 11:43 AM
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Iceman0502 Iceman0502 is offline
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Cummins Radiator and Cooling Help

So I am in the process of working on my 12V swap into a 82 Wagoneer. (I know pictures are worth a thousand words, but Webshots wants everyone to pay now so they will come eventually)

I have the motor in the truck and have to work on my cooling and had some questions before I move foward to do it once.

Will the v8 stock radiator be sufficient for the motor? The motor still has the stock heat exchanger on the side of the motor which is connected to the 47RH transmission and the motor was set in place with the stock radiator in place to provide enough room for a electric fan. Originally I was thinking of buying a 28x19 aluminum radiatior with chevy inlet/ outlet ports and replacing the stock radiator. Then started thinking that the stock radiator is pretty big and I can have the local shop recore it and reverse the locations of the inlet and outlet.
If I keep the stock radiator and the above mentioned, could I also use the trans cooler that is built into the radiator. Will that increase my temp even more. Could the aus trans cooler be eliminated? Or could this be used for power steering when I eventually convert to hydro boost?

There are so many people who claim aluminum radiators are the best thing out there, but the old school copper ones are great also. It was able to keep the big hot 360 cool for so many years.

Almost forgot to ask. I believe the hoses for the cummins are 2 inches and v8 radiators are 1 1/2 inches.

My goal is to use the intercooler from the 94 ram, the stock AC condensor (becuase this is the family rig), a radiator (TBD), and then electric fan.
I'm up for more fabrication but also want to have room for dual batterys. Maybe the second one on the opposite side of the radiator from stock location.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:56 AM
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If you aren't planning on working that engine by towing heavy loads or a big camper/trailer with a ton of frontal area, the factory V8 radiator will work just fine. Diesels are very efficient engines and don't create a ton of heat unless they are working hard.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:09 PM
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A V8 radiator will be more than enough. In my M715 I put a much smaller radiator due to some poor intercooler decisions and never had any overheating issues, even when towing in the summer time. These engines put out a surprisingly small amount of heat.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:30 PM
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I do find myself occasionally doing quite a bit of towing with the largest being a car trailer every now and then. I know the chevy diesels run hot and are hard to cool.

Mikel - What intercooler do you have and are you running an electric fan as well.

When I first bought the donor dodge ram, it took quite a while for the truck to warm up with the gigantic radiator. This is going to the family truck so I wanted to heat to also come up fairly quickly and not freeze everyone before our destination.

What about the stock trans cooler. Should I use it for the trans, use it for power steering and aux for the trans, or see if the radiator shop can just incorporate it as a larger core when they make some modifications?
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:01 PM
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The PIG Smith The PIG Smith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman0502
I know pictures are worth a thousand words, but Webshots wants everyone to pay now so they will come eventually
I know that stinks!
I used have lots of pictures that were on Webshots that I posted here.
Now, my older postings are blank.

Lucky for me, I also had a PhotoBucket account and I am slowly uploading my pics to there for now.
I like the older PhotoBucket interfacer as it was easy to see the tools to create a [IMG]Bryan's FSJ Pictures[/IMG] to post in a forum
As of now, PhotoBucket is free and I am still getting used to it.

One good feature Photobucket has over Webshots is the ability to store animated GIFs!
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...but if it works, I wouldn't touch it.
Quote:
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Best laid plans, yada yada yada...

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Old 01-03-2013, 04:09 PM
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My has a brother has a 1997 Ford F-150 that has been repowered by Cummins 4BT.
This truck sports the stock radiator Ford installed at the factory to cool a 4.6L V8.
He has a hard time getting the 4BT to warm up and is forced in the winter to place cardboard over some of the radiator to get some heat.

So, IMHO, no special radiator is required for your swap.
...other than getting one with correct inlet and outlets to make it easier to plumb the hoses.
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1981 J20: Commercial flat bed. Long term Project: RUST! No Cab Brow!

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...but if it works, I wouldn't touch it.
Quote:
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:33 AM
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post 38 on page two of my build thread has my research for radiator sizing with a cummins. you should have no problems, good luck
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman0502
Mikel - What intercooler do you have and are you running an electric fan as well.

I have an Isuzu NPR intercooler. It is tall and narrow. The radiator is a howe model that fits right between the intercooler inlet/outlet.

It has worked flawlessly for me, but for confort, I would go with something a bit bigger, mostly because I want to get rid of the mechanical fan and I think that will require a larger radiator.
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Old 01-04-2013, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman0502
Mikel - What intercooler do you have and are you running an electric fan as well.

I have an Isuzu NPR intercooler. It is tall and narrow. The radiator is a howe model that fits right between the intercooler inlet/outlet.

It has worked flawlessly for me, but for peace of mind, I would go with something a bit bigger, mostly because I want to get rid of the mechanical fan and I think that will require a larger radiator.

I am not recomending my setup with a 6BT, just pointing out that you can get away with a surprisingly small radiator.
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:03 PM
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If you can use an exsisting radiator and have the inlet and outlet swapped for a Cummins size hose AND get it to fit a stock Dodge Cummins hose, you would have the benefit of walking into any parts store and getting a replacement. Something to consider.

I had an aluminum generic radiator for a chevy small block in my J10 with a 4B with electric fan on a manual toggle. Only time I ever turned it on was in the mud for 5 minutes of WOT. Never got it about 160 riding around regardless of how I flogged it.
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  #11  
Old 01-04-2013, 07:07 PM
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I have been looking around and may be rethinking the electric fan. I may initially fit the stock mechanical fan since it needs more room and I can always fall back on the electric fans. Or even keep electric fans for quicker warm ups and winter driving and I can install the mechanical when I plan on towing my camper or wrangler.

Also I considered buying a new aluminum radiator but all the inlets are 1 1/2 inches and the cummins is 2. I may see the cost for the radiator shop can make me a custom radiator for a fair price.

I wish more people had experience with electric fans and a 6bt instead of the 4bt. I've heard that the 6bt runs slightly warmer that the 4bt.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman0502

I wish more people had experience with electric fans and a 6bt instead of the 4bt. I've heard that the 6bt runs slightly warmer that the 4bt.


My J300 does not have a fan. The little heater core can keep the 4BT from overheating. Figure 50% more heat output from a 6BT.
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:15 AM
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I'm not trying to blow my own horn here, but there is a lot of info about this topic, how I dealt with my concerns, and fabrication, in my build thread. I don't believe a larger radiator is necassary, I just went for overkill.

The one thing I didn't post in my build thread was how I dealt with the lower radiator hose. I used the stock 1994 dodge radiator hoses and had a welder weld a 1/2" larger diameter outlet on the radiator. That matches the factory hose. On the engine end of the stock hose it's factory stretched/flared a 1/2" to fit over the engine inlet, which is larger than the radiator opening.

In my fabrication I had to cut off the flared/engine end of the hose. To get the flare back I took my d-cell Mag-light flashlight and completely took it apart. I then screwed the light housing back onto the battery housing backwards. Using WD-40 for lub I then used a propane torch to CAREFULLY heat up the hose and metal flashlight. Then it was a matter of lub'ing the light housing and stuffing/forcing it into the heated hose. After that I'd let the hose cool down, heat it back up, etc. I had to do this several time to get the hose stretched out enough to fit on the engine. Also, be sure to take the housing out and keep it lub'ed. I never got mine totally stuck, but I'll bet it's a PITA to get off if it gets too dry and takes a good grip on the housing.

As for the trans cooler, you definitely want an Aux cooler, especially if you're keeping the factory heat exchanger. The 6BT is notorious for eating up the 47RH. I kept the heat exchanger and rebuilt my 47RH to handle 1100 ft/lbs of torque. It was the single most expensive part of my build. Stock, or otherwise, you want the largest plate cooler you can get to fit. $80-90 for a cooler is cheap insurance that you won't burn up a $3000 transmission.

Good luck. Resbum
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"What year is my truck?... Which part?" Build thread- http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/view...p=18290#p18290

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Old 01-28-2013, 03:52 PM
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So I decided to go ahead with an aluminum radiator that fits 82-92 camaro. I selected this for a few reasons. It is bigger than the stock wagoneer with dimensions of 30.5 wide and 19 high 2.5 deep. The inlets and ourlets are set up for a GM and they are are straight instead of the typical angle. Includes a trans cooler, sensor port, and even a heater core return if I decide to use it. With the wider radiator I should be able to cut and shorten the stock ram radiator hoses to fit. I can walk into any parts store and buy a stock radiator for a camro if I'm ever on the road and need replacement. Plus I have a camaro of the same generation so I can remember.

The plan will be to widen the radiator support like Resbum has detailed.
The stock 94 ram intercooler will be used and flipped upside down so the ports are at the top.


I Feel that I did some poor planning and suggest that everyone in the future finalize this step before mounting the motor. The motor was mounted with enough clearance for the stock mechanical fan and jeep radiator and clearance in the firewall. Also the motor is on a slight rear tilt to clear the stock front sway bar (not sure if anyone has kept theres). By the way I am also using a 2 inch body lift.

I'm at the point now where if I keep the mechanical fan than I will cut out the front valance and just mount the stock grill over it. If dual electric fans, than I think I could squeeze everything behing the valance and maybe fit a gladiator/ rhino grill on the truck in the future.

The decision on which fan is still up in the air. I will be doing occasional towing with a Wrangler (5K with trailer) from New York to PA, 600 mile round trip through some hills. Also pulling my 1500 pound pop up camper all over the east coast.
Will dual electric fans with 3000 cfm cut it. I can better decide once the radiator gets here and I can start fitting all the peices.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:40 PM
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Thanks for all the great information here. I just bought the Flex-A-Lite 56000L series radiator. I actually bought the 56412L because it came premounted with the electric fans and a built in fan shroud. From what I could find on the internet THMotorsports.com had the best prices on Flex-A-Lite parts.
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:30 PM
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Can everyone post a picture of what they did on the lower coolant hose from the engine to the radiator, whether jeep or aftermarket radiator.


To be more specific the water inlet around the fan belt when the ac compressor is installed. Its seems the compressor takes up some necessary space.
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Last edited by Iceman0502 : 02-21-2013 at 09:46 PM.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:37 AM
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If you're using a normal width radiator with the header tanks at the top and bottom I can see how that might be a problem. Is there enough room that with some combining of pieces you could dogleg around it.

Resbum

Quote:
Originally Posted by Resbum
The one thing I didn't post in my build thread was how I dealt with the lower radiator hose. I used the stock 1994 dodge radiator hoses and had a welder weld a 1/2" larger diameter outlet on the radiator. That matches the factory hose. On the engine end of the stock hose it's factory stretched/flared a 1/2" to fit over the engine inlet, which is larger than the radiator opening.

In my fabrication I had to cut off the flared/engine end of the hose. To get the flare back I took my d-cell Mag-light flashlight and completely took it apart. I then screwed the light housing back onto the battery housing backwards. Using WD-40 for lub I then used a propane torch to CAREFULLY heat up the hose and metal flashlight. Then it was a matter of lub'ing the light housing and stuffing/forcing it into the heated hose. After that I'd let the hose cool down, heat it back up, etc. I had to do this several time to get the hose stretched out enough to fit on the engine. Also, be sure to take the housing out and keep it lub'ed. I never got mine totally stuck, but I'll bet it's a PITA to get off if it gets too dry and takes a good grip on the housing.

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"What year is my truck?... Which part?" Build thread- http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/view...p=18290#p18290
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Old 02-24-2013, 10:15 AM
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loosewrenchcowboy loosewrenchcowboy is offline
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nice

Looks awesome. Im gonna have to look thru ur thread resbum, and look at a few more pics with regards to the intercooler plumbing(in the wheel well?) and turbo to a/c clearance.
With regards to the electric fan, after looking at rated cfm, the biggest aftermarket dual fans flow as much air as the ford taurus/lincoln mark 8 dual speed fan running on high speed, at less than 1/4 the price. I had to add a small shroud to use the taurus fan. But in the interest of keeping a longer rear driveshaft, utilizing the factory crossmember, crossmember mounting holes, a/c to turbo clearance, firewall clearance, and factory speedometer cable i pushed the motor a little closer to the radiator. The single electric fan left me the option of moving the fan around on the radiator for motor to engine clearance.

Last edited by loosewrenchcowboy : 02-24-2013 at 10:27 AM.
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