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  #1  
Old 08-13-2015, 09:46 AM
jraynolds jraynolds is offline
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Location: Livermore, CO
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4.0 EFI swap into 79 J-10

Getting ready to swap a 4.0 with EFI into my 79 J-10. The truck currently has a 258 that is wore out (very low compression and rod knock) with a T-18/D20. I'm looking at only swapping out the engine and hooking up the EFI. I have been trolling Craig's and have found quite a few donor vehicles in my price range ($800 or less) but I am not sure which one to pull the trigger on. Here's a couple questions I have.
- What is the best year range to use for a donor?
- Does it matter if the donor is auto or standard? If so, why?
Right now those are my main questions. I have already put a 5.0 EFI conversion in my wife's Mustang so I am familiar with some of the hurdles in converting a carb vehicle to EFI. Maybe you guys can let me know some of the hurdles specific to this project. Thanks in advance!!
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1979 J-10, 258 with 2100 conversion, T-18/D-20
1979 Cherokee Chief WT, 360, T-18/D-20, rust
1967 Pontiac LeMans Convertible, 400 4sp
1968 Mustang 5.0 conversion
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  #2  
Old 08-13-2015, 10:23 AM
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j2sax j2sax is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Mar 20, 2003
Location: Sparta, MO
Posts: 966
Look for "5 wires to fire" info for getting the EFI going.

IF you are wanting to keep your standard trans, a standard trans vehicle will give you the proper flywheel. Also, the ECM would have the correct idle speed and there is a difference in one of the TB inputs... cannot recall off top of my bald head.

If it were me and this was not a mainly offroading machine, I would stick the whole 4.0 with AX15 in there and that would solve your placement of a CPS issue as well as give a you a great shifting, rugged overdrive. (without the granny gear of course!)

I like the 91-95 as it has the more easily diagnosed and pre-OBDII engine management system. Prior to that is the Renix system, which is not terrible, but not as easily serviced.

Post 95, you have to integrate much more electronics due to the OBDII system, but that is not to say it cannot be done.

I have also seen several people take the 4.0 and just stick a Chevy Throttle Body on it or get a Howell system. The latter is a more pricey options, but make for much simpler install, the "Junkyard TBI" is cheaper but requires more legwork.
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Jesse- Sparta, MO (Near SPfdl MO) J20 4 Door Project, Wag w/ 6" Rusty's, 33x12.5's, 360/727 (for now!), 77 J10, 80 J20, 3 80's Wags, 73 Commando, Lots of AMC Eagles, FSJ parts Rigs and parts
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  #3  
Old 08-13-2015, 10:23 AM
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j2sax j2sax is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Mar 20, 2003
Location: Sparta, MO
Posts: 966
Look for "5 wires to fire" info for getting the EFI going.

IF you are wanting to keep your standard trans, a standard trans vehicle will give you the proper flywheel. Also, the ECM would have the correct idle speed and there is a difference in one of the TB inputs... cannot recall off top of my bald head.

If it were me and this was not a mainly offroading machine, I would stick the whole 4.0 with AX15 in there and that would solve your placement of a CPS issue as well as give a you a great shifting, rugged overdrive. (without the granny gear of course!)

I like the 91-95 as it has the more easily diagnosed and pre-OBDII engine management system. Prior to that is the Renix system, which is not terrible, but not as easily serviced.

Post 95, you have to integrate much more electronics due to the OBDII system, but that is not to say it cannot be done (though I have not done it!).

I have also seen several people take the 4.0 and just stick a Chevy Throttle Body on it or get a Howell system for simplicity's sake. The latter is a more pricey options, but make for much simpler install and is designed for an AMC 6, the "Junkyard TBI" is cheaper but requires more legwork and tuning.
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Jesse- Sparta, MO (Near SPfdl MO) J20 4 Door Project, Wag w/ 6" Rusty's, 33x12.5's, 360/727 (for now!), 77 J10, 80 J20, 3 80's Wags, 73 Commando, Lots of AMC Eagles, FSJ parts Rigs and parts

Last edited by j2sax : 08-13-2015 at 10:26 AM.
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  #4  
Old 08-13-2015, 12:31 PM
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Carnuck Carnuck is offline
 
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Location: Gold Bar, WA
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I would do '91-95 EFI with XJ 5 speed and either D20 adapter$ or a Dodge NP208 with 1" spacer/clocking ring from Parts Mike. Or you can do the front crank mounted CPS and run the current trans.

The 6 cyl mounts are the same. '91 up for the motor. Newer than '99 have a few issues but the EFI from '91-'95 will still work.

Renix head is different (intake ports mostly, but it's the same as '90 YJ 4.2L head without the EFI "notches" in the ports) but the carb intake can be "massaged" to fit.

I was going to put EFI in my Eagle (I have everything from a '91 XJ that was 5 speed) but, unless there is a miracle cure for vertigo and old age, not going to happen in this lifetime. Black Jack has the HO 4.0L from a '93 Grand Cherokee (along with the one year only ZJ AW4) and it'll be running LPG (I have the "carb" and modded intake along with regulators, lines and tanks from a converted XJ)

I have an HO 4.0L from another '93 Grand Cherokee I'm parting (it's only taken me a year to get it half parted) with AW4/NV242 that's going to go to the Eagle.

And per usual I was distracted and forgot where I was going?

The automatic HO computer needs trans inputs or it will grossly overfuel/starve, act weird. The std one doesn't need it.
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  #5  
Old 08-13-2015, 12:42 PM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Location: Medford MA USA
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Another option wrt the 4.0L CPS is to machine a hole in your current bell and mount the factory CPS on your bell. Novak will machine the bell for you, if you like. https://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/amc_i6.htm
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
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  #6  
Old 08-13-2015, 01:45 PM
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Carnuck Carnuck is offline
 
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Location: Gold Bar, WA
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You need the matching flywheel with HO EFI notche$ and clutch too if you go that way. The flywheel on the AX-15 is about 1/2 the weight and uses a different starter unless your 6 cyl is '88 or newer. (XJ style instead of Ford style starter)
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  #7  
Old 08-13-2015, 02:48 PM
jraynolds jraynolds is offline
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Join Date: Jan 06, 2015
Location: Livermore, CO
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Thanks for the info so far. I do like the idea of a 5sp, but funds are limited and not sure I have the budget to have new drive shafts made in addition to everything else it's going to take for the swap. Now I have a good starting point on what to look for.
__________________
1979 J-10, 258 with 2100 conversion, T-18/D-20
1979 Cherokee Chief WT, 360, T-18/D-20, rust
1967 Pontiac LeMans Convertible, 400 4sp
1968 Mustang 5.0 conversion
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  #8  
Old 08-13-2015, 03:44 PM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Location: Medford MA USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnuck
You need the matching flywheel with HO EFI notche$ and clutch too if you go that way. The flywheel on the AX-15 is about 1/2 the weight and uses a different starter unless your 6 cyl is '88 or newer. (XJ style instead of Ford style starter)

So what's involved in making the equivalent CPS setup for the front of the enigne (rather than buying the HESCO parts)? Is it a notched wheel and a VR sensor? Or some other type of sensor?
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
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  #9  
Old 08-13-2015, 04:25 PM
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Carnuck Carnuck is offline
 
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Location: Gold Bar, WA
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They use a balancer with holes drilled and I forget what the sensor is. I know Renix uses a different one (micro voltage AC)
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  #10  
Old 08-15-2015, 03:13 PM
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brielly brielly is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Dec 30, 2002
Location: Toms River, NJ
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One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is that the 4.0 intake will not fit in your engine compartment with the stock brake booster. You will need to switch to hydrobost brakes in order to fit.

I would also suggest 91-95 as the simplest install. If you are stuck on the wiring hesco sells just the harness which makes the install really easy. I did the full mopar kit years ago and you literally had to hook up one wire to switched power, one to the battery and one to ground. The rest of the wires go to the sensors, fuel pump, etc.

Since you have a manual tranny you need the ecm to match. If you can find a complete truck with ax15 I'd swap the whole drivetrain. Just keep in mind the 94 or 95 and later models had the external slave cylinder which is what you want for ease of replacement.
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For Sale Custom built reproduction Rhino Grilles http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...24#post1676924PM me for details or email rrielly@verizon.net

1982 Cherokee Chief 258 6 cyl, AX-15, NP208, mopar mpfi, hydroboost brakes.

1983 Jeep Cherokee Laredo 258 6cyl*SOLD*

Last edited by brielly : 08-15-2015 at 03:16 PM.
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  #11  
Old 08-23-2015, 11:14 AM
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Carnuck Carnuck is offline
 
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I'm hoping to have a '99+ in take soon so I can test the fitment theory of them and stock booster.
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  #12  
Old 08-24-2015, 10:03 AM
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j2sax j2sax is offline
350 Buick
 
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When you say you did the "whole mopar kit" you are talking about the Hesco, not a 4.0 MPFI setup, right? If not, I would be interested to read the details!
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Jesse- Sparta, MO (Near SPfdl MO) J20 4 Door Project, Wag w/ 6" Rusty's, 33x12.5's, 360/727 (for now!), 77 J10, 80 J20, 3 80's Wags, 73 Commando, Lots of AMC Eagles, FSJ parts Rigs and parts
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  #13  
Old 08-24-2015, 12:12 PM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Location: Medford MA USA
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There is a genuine Mopar kit - http://www.jegs.com/p/Mopar-Performa...08371/10002/-1

I had thought that HESCO is just reselling it.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
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  #14  
Old 08-24-2015, 12:36 PM
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j2sax j2sax is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Mar 20, 2003
Location: Sparta, MO
Posts: 966
Hesco Kit

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgreese
There is a genuine Mopar kit - http://www.jegs.com/p/Mopar-Performa...08371/10002/-1

I had thought that HESCO is just reselling it.

How do you like it and what kind of mileage do you get? Is it on a 4.0 or 4.2? Sorry for the hijack, though it does seem related!
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Jesse- Sparta, MO (Near SPfdl MO) J20 4 Door Project, Wag w/ 6" Rusty's, 33x12.5's, 360/727 (for now!), 77 J10, 80 J20, 3 80's Wags, 73 Commando, Lots of AMC Eagles, FSJ parts Rigs and parts
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  #15  
Old 08-27-2015, 02:35 PM
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brielly brielly is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Dec 30, 2002
Location: Toms River, NJ
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I have the full Mopar kit on a 4.2 same thing hesco sells. Its been great so far, very reliable and added quite a few ponies using the seat of the pants dyno. Gas mileage is around 15 in town 17-18 hwy with 5 speed tranny. Honestly the mpg's were about the same with the carter carb.
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For Sale Custom built reproduction Rhino Grilles http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...24#post1676924PM me for details or email rrielly@verizon.net

1982 Cherokee Chief 258 6 cyl, AX-15, NP208, mopar mpfi, hydroboost brakes.

1983 Jeep Cherokee Laredo 258 6cyl*SOLD*
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  #16  
Old 09-01-2015, 11:45 AM
jraynolds jraynolds is offline
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Join Date: Jan 06, 2015
Location: Livermore, CO
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Now it begins...........

Got a 97 Grand Cherokee with 171K on it for $400 and drove it home. Ran great but could use a tune up. It's an auto so I will need to get a flywheel and ECM. Got a quote from NOVAK to machine my T-18 bell. I know I will also need to get a special pilot bushing. I was looking at the brake booster on the 97 and at first sight it looks as if it may fit in the 79. Any reason not to use it if it will fit. Trying not to have to spend the $$$ for hydroboost. It looks like OBD I would be easier to install, but I couldn't pass this one up. Any nuggets of wisdom on this swap would be appreciated. Thanks fellas. I hope to get some pics up soon.
__________________
1979 J-10, 258 with 2100 conversion, T-18/D-20
1979 Cherokee Chief WT, 360, T-18/D-20, rust
1967 Pontiac LeMans Convertible, 400 4sp
1968 Mustang 5.0 conversion
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  #17  
Old 09-02-2015, 10:05 AM
jraynolds jraynolds is offline
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Join Date: Jan 06, 2015
Location: Livermore, CO
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another swap question....

I knew I would think of another question to ask...
I am going to put a new clutch in. What clutch do I use? Will the clutch for a 79 bolt onto the 97 flywheel, or do I need a 97 clutch? Will the input shaft of the T-18 work with the 97 clutch? Does any of this matter? Thanks.
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1979 J-10, 258 with 2100 conversion, T-18/D-20
1979 Cherokee Chief WT, 360, T-18/D-20, rust
1967 Pontiac LeMans Convertible, 400 4sp
1968 Mustang 5.0 conversion
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  #18  
Old 09-02-2015, 10:59 AM
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Carnuck Carnuck is offline
 
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I don't know if both are flat flywheels or if one is stepped, but if both are the same and the holes line up, then it's swappable. If not, check if the T18 disc fits the AX-15 flywheel and pressure plate.
You need a '91+ flywheel (Before that they are Renix and the notches are differently spaced so it won't run EFI) You can either have the T18 bell modded or get the harmonic balancer CPS kit from Hesco. With shipping the bell to/from machine shop and everything else needed, the cost may be a wash. AX-15 has a different spline count clutch than the T18 I'm pretty sure (not like I'm ever wrong? LOL!)

I tried an XJ booster on my '84 J10 and it still didn't clear the (then) Renix intake manifold, which is narrower than the HO one (except '99+) AND the XJ booster is smaller than the ZJ booster. It's an interference fit that doesn't work.

I saved the Hydroboost from a '79 Lincoln Towncar I parted (they aren't expensive new and can fit the E350 master from late model with 4 wheel disc brakes) before I scored a Chev 1500 setup for $75 from the junkyard. Still haven't got the brakes done.
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