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  #1  
Old 01-11-2012, 08:04 AM
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Maybe swap GM but what about transfer case ?

I am "considering" (many options actually) a GM swap. The 82-89 GM trucks have the V8 with the 700R4 trans. Which gives me the overdrive I would like to have.

Novak wants $500 to adapt the 700R4 to the existing transfer case. However, from what I read, the NP208 that comes in the GM truck is very similar to the NP231 in my 90 Waggy.

**************************************
The NP208 has a aluminum case and an appearance similar to many other chain driven New Process transfer cases. It should have a tag on the back saying New Process Gear, Model 208. It is chain driven transfer case with a 23 spline input and standard round bolt pattern. The output for the front driveshaft is on the drivers side. Low range is around 2.62 and high is 1.00.

Usage
Full size Cherokees used the NP208 from '80-'83 and the J-trucks used it from '80-'86 or '87. The NP208 was the "Command-Trac" option for full size Jeeps during this time period.
**************************************


I am trying to decide if it is better to keep the NP208 and just modify the mount ( I can do a lot with $500) or buy the adaptor. Any pros or cons ?
Any thoughts are appreciated.

I only plan to drive 4x4 in heavy snow and some Level 1 trails.
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Old 01-11-2012, 08:22 AM
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The 208 is significantly larger and stronger than a 231. Who put the 231 in your '90 and are you sure it's a 231? If you find the right donor you can put the whole power train in your '90. You will need to find an '88 or newer GM 1/2 ton truck to retain your drivers output transfer case. Anything older and the case has the output on the passenger side. The truck will either have a 208, 241.
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Old 01-11-2012, 08:26 AM
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i could be wrong. It should be original. I thought I read the 231 was stock...my mistake.
Any yes, I am looking at a complete donor to make the swap.
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:10 AM
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Well if it's stock you have a 229. The best way to go when swapping in a different power train is to get the whole donor vehicle. That way you have 80% of the parts you need to get it done.
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:14 AM
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1982-1987 trucks will have the front output on the wrong side for your 1990 GW.

If you get a 1988-1989 donor, it will have the correct side output.
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  #6  
Old 01-11-2012, 09:14 AM
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You are right, I have to stop drinking Tequila for breakfast. It makes the corn flakes taste funny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted
Well if it's stock you have a 229. The best way to go when swapping in a different power train is to get the whole donor vehicle. That way you have 80% of the parts you need to get it done.
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  #7  
Old 01-11-2012, 10:50 AM
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For a 80+ FSJ, the driver drop 241C is what I would use, for a GM swap all factory GM parts. (Unless it is a winter driver, then paying the $ to keep the 229 might be worth it, the 229 is a very good mixed ice/dry/wet at speed T-case)
The 241C driver drop is found in 88+ GM pickups, and 92+(?) Suburban/blazers

Mike D.
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  #8  
Old 01-11-2012, 02:40 PM
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If you need a full time capable case, you can mix and match parts to make a Jeep NP249 bolt up to a GM transmission. It is simply a matter of swapping the input from one transfer case to another. The NP249 gets a bad rap, much like the NP229, but it is stronger than the 229, and if you get a late model version, is dirt simple inside.
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  #9  
Old 01-12-2012, 08:27 AM
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Pete,
Out of curiosity...what input shaft would you use in the Jeep 249? 241C?
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  #10  
Old 01-12-2012, 08:54 AM
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Yup. The planetary gears are identical between the two. The only catch is NP changed the gear profile somewhere in the mid 90's. So you can't use gears from an early case in a later case, and vice versa. The gear tooth is quite visably different; one is pointy, the other is flat at the tip of the tooth. The input bearing and input seal may have to be swapped over too, depending on what spline count you are going with.
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  #11  
Old 01-12-2012, 05:47 PM
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I think the change over of the tooth profile was 1996 (?) for the input gears.
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1977 J-10 Honcho 360-T15-D20
1977 Cherokee WT 360-Th400-NP241 true-trac(s)
1979 Cherokee 4 Door 258-T-18-D20
1981 Cherokee Chief WT 360-727-NP208
1972 K20 Suburban 350 SM465 205
And the other stuff that gets driven
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  #12  
Old 01-12-2012, 07:50 PM
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Well, I almost had some good news and was going to have one of the 360s I bought in pieces put back together. My brother finally got it over to a engine rebuilder guy and it looked like the block just needed honed and some new pistons and rings. My hopes were high of just swapping out an engine. Then the news came today that to put it back together would cost $1400 to just get it to a short block configuration. Wow. I am REALLY thinking about a GM swap now. That seems high considering very little block work, the rods are new and very little crank and a new cam with lifters.
I Was talking to a guy that has a running 401. He is asking $650. Maybe that is a better answer. Still doesn't solve the 4 speed auto tranny tho.......my head hurts.
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Last edited by drcom : 01-12-2012 at 07:53 PM.
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  #13  
Old 01-12-2012, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drcom
Well, I almost had some good news and was going to have one of the 360s I bought in pieces put back together. My brother finally got it over to a engine rebuilder guy and it looked like the block just needed honed and some new pistons and rings. My hopes were high of just swapping out an engine. Then the news came today that to put it back together would cost $1400 to just get it to a short block configuration. Wow. I am REALLY thinking about a GM swap now. That seems high considering very little block work, the rods are new and very little crank and a new cam with lifters.
I Was talking to a guy that has a running 401. He is asking $650. Maybe that is a better answer. Still doesn't solve the 4 speed auto tranny tho.......my head hurts.
Depending on how much of the swap you can do yourself, It will probably cost a lot more than $1,400.

JeepinPete, thanks for that info about the NP249.
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  #14  
Old 01-12-2012, 08:24 PM
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Why not use an AW4 from an XJ? It'll bolt up to your AMC engine and your Tcase. The control unit (seperate from the engine computer) is pretty easy to install and hook up. Unless you are going high horsepower/hard offroading, it'll hold up just fine.
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  #15  
Old 01-12-2012, 08:29 PM
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Interesting, on the 249, the 247 also looks interesting. Looks like the only "good" 249's were 96 -> 98 (with low range lock).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepinPete
If you need a full time capable case, you can mix and match parts to make a Jeep NP249 bolt up to a GM transmission. It is simply a matter of swapping the input from one transfer case to another. The NP249 gets a bad rap, much like the NP229, but it is stronger than the 229, and if you get a late model version, is dirt simple inside.
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Home of ADHD project list

1977 J-10 Honcho 360-T15-D20
1977 Cherokee WT 360-Th400-NP241 true-trac(s)
1979 Cherokee 4 Door 258-T-18-D20
1981 Cherokee Chief WT 360-727-NP208
1972 K20 Suburban 350 SM465 205
And the other stuff that gets driven
----------------------------------------

Last edited by mdill : 01-12-2012 at 08:55 PM.
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  #16  
Old 01-12-2012, 10:50 PM
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That is a good question. I have read about them, but it seemed they had some issues with getting the computers to work. Maybe it was just the threads I was reading. I am just using it as a daily driver and of course the SNOW that we get in Illinois. I wont go over a 1 rated off road trail. Just some country fun. Nothing hard core. Have you done the AW4 swap?
If it bolts, then it would be the right one to put in. I read some where that nothing bolts into the 360 and 231 except the 727....hopefully I am wrong and the AW4 works. I wouldn't mind having the 4.0L from the Xj also, but I read they are too long....I think a 4.0 sticking out of the front of a FSJ would look kind of good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rande
Why not use an AW4 from an XJ? It'll bolt up to your AMC engine and your Tcase. The control unit (seperate from the engine computer) is pretty easy to install and hook up. Unless you are going high horsepower/hard offroading, it'll hold up just fine.
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32x11.5x15
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SilverStar Headlights
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Rebuilt 360
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  #17  
Old 01-13-2012, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drcom
That is a good question. I have read about them, but it seemed they had some issues with getting the computers to work. Maybe it was just the threads I was reading. I am just using it as a daily driver and of course the SNOW that we get in Illinois. I wont go over a 1 rated off road trail. Just some country fun. Nothing hard core. Have you done the AW4 swap?
If it bolts, then it would be the right one to put in. I read some where that nothing bolts into the 360 and 231 except the 727....hopefully I am wrong and the AW4 works. I wouldn't mind having the 4.0L from the Xj also, but I read they are too long....I think a 4.0 sticking out of the front of a FSJ would look kind of good.

Lots of stuff bolts to a 360, pretty much anything that came from the factory behind a 4.0L or 258 will bolt up.
You may have to balance up a 4.0L flywheel / flexplate but nothing to drastic.
Some have said the AW4 is tough, some have said it is not so (??)
They use them behind V8's in some applications, but you might want to talk to a tranny guy to see if they are the same.
(They used T-5's behind Jeep I-6's and they used T-5's behind V8's but the Jeep T-5 was not a "World class" T-5 that held up to V8's, do some homework before you leap. (The computer control was pretty simplistic on the Jeep AW4)
You can also run NV3550, AX15, NSG370's .... they will all bolt up to a AMC V-8 but like an swap bolting the engine to the tranny is usually a small part the job.
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1977 J-10 Honcho 360-T15-D20
1977 Cherokee WT 360-Th400-NP241 true-trac(s)
1979 Cherokee 4 Door 258-T-18-D20
1981 Cherokee Chief WT 360-727-NP208
1972 K20 Suburban 350 SM465 205
And the other stuff that gets driven
----------------------------------------
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  #18  
Old 01-13-2012, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drcom
I wouldn't mind having the 4.0L from the Xj also, but I read they are too long....I think a 4.0 sticking out of the front of a FSJ would look kind of good.

I don't see the engine sticking out the front of this guys Grand Wagoneer.


Looks like a pretty good fit. Heck it even looks like a direct bolt in.
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i bet it was Simon....
he's such big meanie that way...
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Last edited by addicted : 01-13-2012 at 08:38 AM.
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  #19  
Old 01-13-2012, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeepinPete
If you need a full time capable case, you can mix and match parts to make a Jeep NP249 bolt up to a GM transmission. It is simply a matter of swapping the input from one transfer case to another. The NP249 gets a bad rap, much like the NP229, but it is stronger than the 229, and if you get a late model version, is dirt simple inside.
I did a little more research and guys with ZJs and the 249, swap the input with a 242 so they can get 2wd/4hiFT/4hiPT/4lo. So do you know if you could swap the 241c input with the 242? I like the idea of having 2wd and no VC with a 4hi lock.
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  #20  
Old 01-13-2012, 10:53 AM
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From my reading to put the AW4 on the 360 you use the 4.0 flexplate and transfer the balance weight from the 360 flexplate to the same location on the 4.0 flexplate (it needs to be welded on) and use the 4.0 starter. The AW4's control unit was seperate from the engine compter for many years. I am not sure what year they were combined. You mount it somewhere and run the wires.

That unit needs a throttle position senser to work. You fabricate a bracket and attach it to the throttle. The AW4 also has a switch that slightly alters the shifting, it labled "Power" "Comfort" or something like that. You can see that switch in the XJ's. You cab wire that switch in or set the tranny to one setting or the other and leave it.

The AW4 does not take overheating well. So, a good tranny cooler is needed.

So, no adapters, relatively easy installatin and it bolts to the engine and transfercase. Not to mention how many thousands there are in the salvage yards by now and aftermarket support.

If you go with a 4.0 for your engine, avoid the '00 and '01 engines as they have a problematic head (prone to cracking if overheated even a bit).
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