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Old 11-06-2019, 04:49 PM
Tonylito Tonylito is offline
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The Skyler White Br Ba 1991 Jeep Grand Wagoner - new purchase

Hi all .... been wanting a Grand Wagoneer for awhile (its a longer story why I only pulled the trigger) but I bought the GW from Breaking Bad. I actually almost bought one in NJ but then I ran across the one from the show.

The reason why I am on here is now I am sorta stuck. I am not sure what I should or shouldn't do to it ... so I want advice and guidance before I change anything. So I hope the members will help. Currently diagnosing a fuel problem but I think I will get that one under control.


Photobucket is not free so here are a few pictures.
https://flic.kr/p/2hGgPtM
https://flic.kr/p/2hGhT5i

So a little trivia ....
1) It has been in Arkansas since 2013
2) It was originally white (which is really the first thing I have to figure out what to do as the paint job that Br Ba put on it is peeling and the previous owner painted some of it).

I appreciate all your help up front.
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Old 11-06-2019, 07:34 PM
fsj454 fsj454 is offline
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welcome

Nice find .. I have a 1990 all stock and I am proud to own it . fsj454
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  #3  
Old 11-07-2019, 04:45 PM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonylito
...I bought the GW from Breaking Bad. I actually almost bought one in NJ but then I ran across the one from the show....
So a little trivia ....
1) It has been in Arkansas since 2013
2) It was originally white (which is really the first thing I have to figure out what to do as the paint job that Br Ba put on it is peeling and the previous owner painted some of it).

I appreciate all your help up front.
WHAT?!?!? REALLY?!?!?! THAT'S AWESOME!!!

So, reading your post I assume your question is: Should I keep it Br Ba color or go back to white? right?

I think you will find most of us on here are not "Car Collectors" so we are not very good with those types of questions because we are not worried about value or return on investment. Most posters here are really good with "My truck is doing this, how do I figure out what is wrong?" or "This is broken on my truck, how do I fix it?" or "I need one of these, where do I get it?". There are a few guys on here that SUPER good at answering these types of questions "Is this a factory part?" or "I bought this part for my Wagoneer, how come it does not fit?"

With that said, most of the answers you will get from posters here for the question "white or Br Ba color?" will be, "what do you like better? It's your truck, paint it the color you like." My biggest advice: Don't tear your truck apart with Grand Aspirations of a show quality finish for $500. You either have to pay someone else ALOT of money to paint it (like $8-15K+ for a "good" paint job) or expect to spend $1500+ and do it yourself. IT'S A LOT OF WORK TO PAINT A RIG WELL and if you have never done it, it take A LOT of patience. I will never paint a rig again and cannot afford to have it painted well so I drive a truck that looks like crap. I don't want to pay someone else $$ to do a poor paint job. If someone says they are going to paint your truck for less than $5k, you will get what you pay for.
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  #4  
Old 11-07-2019, 06:04 PM
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miracleed miracleed is offline
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cool find!
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  #5  
Old 11-08-2019, 11:47 AM
Tonylito Tonylito is offline
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thanks for your reply ... I think I am looking for direction from people that are enthusiastic about Grand Wagoneers. I think of this as being an iconic one so I am essentially the caretaker for it.

So - given its role in Br Ba - I can't or wouldn't go back to white. They bought it as white and found out from the transportation captain that the creatives had Skyler as a red hue so they painted it. its what do I do about the peeling Br Ba paint job? Redo the entire car? Clear coat it and consider it patina? I don't even care as much about the value more so of the integrity of it as an artifact (example - in the show its missing hood ornament - so there will be no hood ornament).

The other one is that the interior front seats are a mess and believe it or not Vince Gilligan looked at 3-4 different seat covers before picking the cheesy ones that are on it. Its like ... really what can I change .. I would love nice gentleman seats but oh well.
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Old 11-08-2019, 02:15 PM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Ah! Copy that. I wouldn't clear coat it. I think that would be a waste. From that perspective, IMHO, I would drive it as is, keep it clean and save up for a good paint job when this one gets too unbearable. I think a poor new paint job is much worse than a worn decent/original paint job. Yours is kind of a special case because even though you have a worn bad paint job, it's the paint job from the show. So, if anyone asks "Are you going to paint it?" because it looks bad, you say "Nope! That's the paint from the show!" and that is a good answer and everyone will understand. Then a few years from now when you have save up some money, you go get it painted because you want to preserve it! everyone wins!

You might be able to find a shop that will paint it for a big discount just so they can say they painted the Br Ba Gran Wag. But it would also probably take some time to find a shop like that...
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  #7  
Old 11-08-2019, 05:17 PM
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letank letank is offline
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Welcome to the asylum... as for paint peeling, I can see some spots, it looks not too bad until the clear coat starts to bubble.


The most important part is to make sure that the roof rack wellnuts are still doing their job, to keep the rain from dripping on the headliner which is cardboard and may take a few soaks before the headliner starts to drool...


The luggage sliding chrome pieces are also fitted with sheet metal screw and some rubber bits and it is plain cheap job, rust appears around the screw holes and get bigger.



http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=3880


or bjs


http://www.bjsoffroad.com/Roof-Rack-...12_p_1560.html


As for the fuel, make sure that the fuel filter is postioned with the return hose at the 12 o'clock position, this is the top placement for the return line which is 1/4". You may find out that the fuel pump is getting weak... or other issues... when spring is around the corner, but this is for another story.
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Michel
74 wag, 349Kmiles on original ticker/trany, except for the rust. Will it make it to the next get together without a rebuilt? Status: needs a new body.
85 Gwag, 226 Kmiles. $250 FSJ test lab since 02, that refuses to give up but still leaks.

See Ouray 2013, Engine bits and Fuel and brake lines, and Body work
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  #8  
Old 11-11-2019, 03:07 PM
Tonylito Tonylito is offline
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Join Date: Nov 03, 2019
Location: Boston
Posts: 8
The Skyler White Br Ba 1991 Jeep Grand Wagoner - new purchase

Thanks for the advice - love it.

1) We got the fuel problem solved. New pump, sending unit, dual filters (one clear one to see what's up) and now it starts 1/2 crank (well plugs too) and the fuel gauge is working too. Check.

2) So we take for a ride and bam ... cracked the transfer case. It was stuck in 4wd and I didnt quite get that its not all that time 4 wheel drive. So the next project is the transfer case, the controls and figuring out how to operate it. The idea is to make it work correctly ..... ???? Can I drive it around in effectively 2WD drive - I'm assuming the belt broke and cracked the case.??? I have a new transfer case on the way.

3) Yes I agree with the conclusion - don't half ass fixing the paint. I was either going to clear coat it so it would not get worse or legit do a top end paint job but I think I will just drive it and then do it right.

4) Thanks for the heads up on the roof rack .. it has a new headliner so ... I want to make sure that it isn't ruined.
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  #9  
Old 11-11-2019, 09:27 PM
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letank letank is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonylito
2) So we take for a ride and bam ... cracked the transfer case. It was stuck in 4wd and I didnt quite get that its not all that time 4 wheel drive. So the next project is the transfer case, the controls and figuring out how to operate it. The idea is to make it work correctly ..... ???? Can I drive it around in effectively 2WD drive - I'm assuming the belt broke and cracked the case.??? I have a new transfer case on the way.




surprised by the bad TC, it can be driven in 4x4 all along, with the NP229 which IIRC is the OEM case, recheck the tag to make sure that you have a NP229 and not a np228 which can only be driven in 4x4 when the road surface is slippery because the NP228 does not have the viscous coupler that allow different rotational turns between front and rear. BTW it is a chain driven TC


here is a pict of a NP208 tag, yours will have the proper ID


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Michel
74 wag, 349Kmiles on original ticker/trany, except for the rust. Will it make it to the next get together without a rebuilt? Status: needs a new body.
85 Gwag, 226 Kmiles. $250 FSJ test lab since 02, that refuses to give up but still leaks.

See Ouray 2013, Engine bits and Fuel and brake lines, and Body work
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  #10  
Old 11-12-2019, 01:12 PM
Tonylito Tonylito is offline
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Join Date: Nov 03, 2019
Location: Boston
Posts: 8
Oh .... that's weird then.

I will check.
I ordered a NP229 .. would that be a drop in if I have a NP228?
(yes I knew it was chain but I mistakenly use them interchangably - I am considering rebuilding the old one for spare).

Can I drive it in the current state without ATF .... or the bearing need the lube?
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  #11  
Old 11-12-2019, 04:27 PM
letank's Avatar
letank letank is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonylito
Oh .... that's weird then.

I will check.
I ordered a NP229 .. would that be a drop in if I have a NP228?
(yes I knew it was chain but I mistakenly use them interchangably - I am considering rebuilding the old one for spare).

Can I drive it in the current state without ATF .... or the bearing need the lube?




You cannot drive without ATF, as the following post mentions that the silicone has probably slipped and destroyed the innards. But you said case is cracked... JB weld to the rescue.... just kidding...



Not sure about case length , that would require a rear driveshaft mod.



You should have a NP229 unless someone changed it...



http://wagoneers.com/tech/228vs229-jim.txt


From carnuck@hotmail.com Tue Jul 29 23:36:45 2003 From: Jim B <carnuck@hotmail.com> A: The 228 has open carrier in it like a non-posi rear end. The NP229 has a viscous coupler (read silicone oil that makes it like a clutch between some plates with holes in them inside a heavy duty plastic bag) which is like a very light duty posi-trac rearend center section (turned sideways. Instead of controlling the 2 wheels in a rear end, it controls the slippage between the front and rear driveshaft) It works fine till there is too much slippage (ie: The front axle vacuum motor disengages on the 'late 82 to early '86 rigs with the pin on the dash switch to keep you from engaging 4x4 easily while driving, because you're not supposed to! ) If there is too much slippage, it overheats and the "bag" that keeps the oil in falls apart and it is temporarily open like the NP228, until the silicone oil destroys all the bearings and seals in the transfercase, and chews up the gears as it is not very lubricating. (It's just slightly better lubricant than liquid sand!) The NP208 is like a Lincoln Locked rear axle. It's solid shaft front and rear with no slippage. On dry, good traction pavement, it winds up like a spring because the front and rear tires turn at different rates of speed on corners, and any difference in wear from front to back or even tire pressure will cause a difference in rotation of the front and rear shafts. (It also feels funny when driving around corners, like it's "hopping") The NP229 was made to alleviate that, but who needs 4 wheel on good surfaces? <G> From: "Faith Jeff" <Jeff.Faith@rxsol.com> Subject: fsj: why a 228 ? so why is the 228 favored over a 229 xfer case? - -jeff
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Michel
74 wag, 349Kmiles on original ticker/trany, except for the rust. Will it make it to the next get together without a rebuilt? Status: needs a new body.
85 Gwag, 226 Kmiles. $250 FSJ test lab since 02, that refuses to give up but still leaks.

See Ouray 2013, Engine bits and Fuel and brake lines, and Body work
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  #12  
Old 11-13-2019, 11:13 AM
Tonylito Tonylito is offline
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Join Date: Nov 03, 2019
Location: Boston
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So I checked it .... its a NP229 which makes the failure more mysterious. Thoughts?

So the Rig does drive / move. The reason I don't want to operate it in this condition is? It will wreck transmission / Front-Rear Axles or further destroy the transfer case until it doesn't operate. I have a NP229 arriving today and plan to put it in asap. The reason I ask is for my education and just moving the rig around - yard, maybe to auto repair place.
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Old 11-13-2019, 05:07 PM
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letank letank is offline
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Location: San Francisco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonylito
So I checked it .... its a NP229 which makes the failure more mysterious. Thoughts?

So the Rig does drive / move. The reason I don't want to operate it in this condition is? It will wreck transmission / Front-Rear Axles or further destroy the transfer case until it doesn't operate. I have a NP229 arriving today and plan to put it in asap. The reason I ask is for my education and just moving the rig around - yard, maybe to auto repair place.




When you said that you cracked the transfer case, can you post a pict of the crack? or can you described the location of the crack? is it oozing oil?



Do you still have oil in the TC? at this point make sure that you can unscrew the fill plug before you open the drain plug and let it drain in a clear container such as a cut up milk jug to find out how much oil is left in it, and the color... if you have still some oil left, then refill with fresh oil about 2q should do it for testing and driving to the mechanic... Or the fastest is to unscrew the fill oil plug and fill it up and see where the leak is coming from and at which rate... and much you had to fill before it leaked from the crack



When I got the 85, I forgot to check the TC level and a few months later when I did, it was very low... I drove with less then half a pint, that was 17 years and 40Kmiles ago...
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Michel
74 wag, 349Kmiles on original ticker/trany, except for the rust. Will it make it to the next get together without a rebuilt? Status: needs a new body.
85 Gwag, 226 Kmiles. $250 FSJ test lab since 02, that refuses to give up but still leaks.

See Ouray 2013, Engine bits and Fuel and brake lines, and Body work
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  #14  
Old 11-14-2019, 12:12 PM
Tonylito Tonylito is offline
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Join Date: Nov 03, 2019
Location: Boston
Posts: 8
https://flic.kr/p/2hKGFYW

oh its oozing ... guessing the chain snapped and cracked the case. I assume its empty but will check when I can.

so my concern is #1 moving it now and doing more damage #2 once I install the new one - it happening again.

The 4WD light is stuck on and I assume the vacuum system is hosed as I could not shift it out of 4WD (not sure if I know all the tricks).
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:55 PM
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letank letank is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonylito
https://flic.kr/p/2hKGFYW

oh its oozing ... guessing the chain snapped and cracked the case. I assume its empty but will check when I can.

so my concern is #1 moving it now and doing more damage #2 once I install the new one - it happening again.

The 4WD light is stuck on and I assume the vacuum system is hosed as I could not shift it out of 4WD (not sure if I know all the tricks).




Thank you for the pict... stuck in 4x4... if you lift the rear axle off the ground and put trans in neutral can you manually roll the wheel... if not or if it is very noisy you will need to have the axle shafts disconnected at both rear and front axle and secured before being towed... otherwise if it seems to roll with some ease , you can either start the engine to generate vacuum to try to activate the 4x4 shift to disengage the 4x4, but as you mentioned a loud bang earlier, it might be a pile of shredded bits in the the TC.
As for the next trip, use 4x4 as needed, make sure tires have the same size and wear
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Michel
74 wag, 349Kmiles on original ticker/trany, except for the rust. Will it make it to the next get together without a rebuilt? Status: needs a new body.
85 Gwag, 226 Kmiles. $250 FSJ test lab since 02, that refuses to give up but still leaks.

See Ouray 2013, Engine bits and Fuel and brake lines, and Body work
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  #16  
Old 11-14-2019, 12:58 PM
Tonylito Tonylito is offline
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Join Date: Nov 03, 2019
Location: Boston
Posts: 8
Thanks for the insight.

Is there a way to manually actuate it into 2wd? I assume the vaccuum does not work. Any tricks?

I was going to ask what tires to buy to be the most authentic .. it has mismatched brand and size.
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Old 11-14-2019, 08:17 PM
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letank letank is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonylito
I was going to ask what tires to buy to be the most authentic .. it has mismatched brand and size.




authentic.... it depends on what is the primary use, road or country, it is the same answer to expect when asking "what oil to use?", you will get a zillion opinions. I have the BFGs all terrain, but for years I had the michelin road tires, you need to lower the pressure a bit more if you expect very loose conditions, and never got stuck... almost but managed to pull thru or go back when the 4x4 did not engage... it was with the quadra-track the vacuum actuator failed.



But if the sizes are mismatched you have your answer for destroying the TC, what are the sizes?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonylito
Is there a way to manually actuate it into 2wd? I assume the vaccuum does not work. Any tricks?




not too sure about this one, is the gears and chain are on random order there is little chance to go back to 2hi, the control arm is really stuck above the TC, below is the np229 view from above when the access plate to the transmission/TC is removed, you can see the actuator with the red vacuum hose


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Michel
74 wag, 349Kmiles on original ticker/trany, except for the rust. Will it make it to the next get together without a rebuilt? Status: needs a new body.
85 Gwag, 226 Kmiles. $250 FSJ test lab since 02, that refuses to give up but still leaks.

See Ouray 2013, Engine bits and Fuel and brake lines, and Body work

Last edited by letank : 11-14-2019 at 08:22 PM.
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