Do I "need" a wideband to tune a TBI?

[rang-a-stang]

I kind of want one, eventually, to make sure I am running well, but am running low on cash and time these days. Do I "need" it? I have read that my computer (16197427) can log a wideband but can't really use it for calculating anything. Anyone have their wideband hooked into their computer? How much of a PITA is it to hook in? I assume it's just a pin and some code added to the BIN, right?

[PlasticBoob]

Dynamometer or wideband is the only way to tune your engine yourself as far as I know...the dyno being the more accurate of the two.

Save up and you'll have a one before you know it. Err, the wideband, that is.

Can't help you on the tuning as I run MS, but maybe you have a similar "autotune" feature in your software? It works wonders and really dialed in my map, especially middle and upper ranges.

[rang-a-stang]

Copy, thanks, Rob. I went and spent my last bit-o-money on a rear bumper so wideband will have to wait a couple pay checks but I'll get it.

I'm using tunerpro but I am still learning. I have not heard of a an auto-tune feature yet but I'll research it.

[PlasticBoob]

No prob! I'm not going to officially recommend the Innovate LC-1 wideband sensor and controller combo, because I have read a lot of bad reviews about them. However, I can tell you that I've been running one for many, many years now and it's still working just fine. I'm not recommending it, though, because I haven't put a lot of miles on it (only around 8,000). Just make sure you get one that is known to be compatible with your ECU.

The autotune feature generally uses a calculated AFR table: the tuning laptop uses the wideband sensor to change the fuel table to achieve the target AFRs.

If you don't have an autotune feature, you should be able to do it the old school way. This involves installing the wideband sensor and controller, and then driving it around while logging the resultant AFRs. Then you go into your fuel table and lean or enrichen the areas that need it, and then go for another drive to repeat the process. You have to be very careful that you are in the ballpark (start off too rich!) when you are trying to log your upper end of the table. It can get dangerous, so try increasing throttle slowly, starting off locked in 1st gear only, and pay careful attention to what the engine is doing.

When you get it all dialed in, you can then remove the wideband sensor and controller and just use a regular narrowband sensor to help with fuel correction. There'd be no reason for leaving in the WB one you are dialed in if your ECU can't use it to correct on the fly. From that point on, I'd only install it if there was a problem and I needed to see what AFRs I was getting.

This might be of some use - it's the calculator to get an initial AFR targets table for MS:

http://www.useasydocs.com/theory/afrtable.htm

I plugged my cam data into Desktop Dyno and used those power and torque numbers to then build the AFR table which Autotune feeds off of. Worked perfectly!

Are you having any tune issues right now, or do you just want to see where you're at? Either way, having a WB around is very handy.

[babywag]

Adding one is easy, getting accurate data is another issue.
For getting the WB data into stream it's just a voltage conversion algorithm, unless it's dead nuts calibrated and accurate it's just data.
They can be significantly "off" to what's actually going on.

Far as tuning I'd stick with the NB and BLM data until you wrap your head around it better.
Couple good drives crunch some numbers in a spreadsheet and done.
See lots of guys tuning and tuning and tuning, trying for those perfect BLMs no real point in that.
Too many variables it'll never be "perfect" and doesn't need to be.
The system learns & corrects from sensor data all by itself and one of the reasons EFI is so much better than a carb.

GM has no autotune, never will.

[gpcl16]

Are you using the APU1 for Data Logging, chip burning, etc? If so you can run the wideband direct to the APU 1. You cannot run it direct to your GM TBI computer that I'm aware of. Without a wideband, you will basically be guessing what air/fuel ratios are actually occurring while in open loop. You can do it without, but a wideband will make your job much easier, and the end result will be better.

I've done a lot of fuel injection tuning, and have developed megasquirt fuel injection systems for other vintage cars at my work. I highly, highly recommend AEM widebands over the Innovate. I've found the AEMs to be more accurate, and a more compact and easier to install package. The AEM module is inside the gauge housing and the whole system is precalibrated. This means you can actively compare what's reading on the gauge to what tuner pro is reading to ensure it's accuracy. You can mount the gauge and monitor your AFRs even when you are not actively tuning.

[babywag]

Originally Posted by gpcl16

You cannot run it direct to your GM TBI computer that I'm aware of.

That's not correct...
You wire the WB 0-5v output to B16.

[gpcl16]

Originally Posted by babywag

That's not correct...
You wire the WB 0-5v output to B16.

Thanks for the correction.